Boxing Day Services

[SPADTrap]

I don't advocate Christmas Day working. I do think some services should be available on Boxing Day.

I would hope it could be staffed by volunteers, but if not then perhaps the contracts need to be reviewed.

I would have been content to work (some) Christmas Days.

I did work one Boxing Day. (Some scrotes burnt down a key piece of signalling infrastructure on Christmas Day; we went in to put together the emergency timetable.)

Why review our contracts? This is what I don't understand.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Well, ultimately people should be forced if necessary. If you want to work on the railways then that's the way it should be IMHO. A friend of mine is an airline purser, another is a manager of a fast food outlet.

We could, I suppose, buy out Christmas and Boxing Day holiday entitlements from staff, but it'll come at a cost - let us do a Boxing Day ticket supplement and count the number of seconds before you're crying like a spoilt brat about how expensive it is wah-wah-wah.

Staff are now on-duty, and you're stuck on a platform, face like thunder because of the ticket price, when the staff you're paying to work tell you it's a rail replacement bus service because the line you want is buried under cranes and engineering trains.

See, fast food outlets don't need to close at Christmas because they can do their maintenance and upgrades in a couple of hours here and there, or not bother if it's anything like Casey Jones. Airports can shift things around and do things out of other terminals, use other runways, or use alternative airports, if I've got a Kirow crane and Movax piling rig on the end of it blocking two tracks and there's a bridge worth of rubble sitting across the line, you're going nowhere at all, son, unless you can hook a dozen reindeers up (subject to coupling compatibility and bang road working) and fly your train over a series of physical obstructions.

 

[dk1]

I look forward to this thread starting all year & it ends up almost exactly the same everytime. I still maintain that I am not contracted to drive trains Boxing Day & I will never drive trains on Boxing Day. All being well I can take early retirement within the next 9 years & nothing will change in that time.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I don't advocate Christmas Day working. I do think some services should be available on Boxing Day.

There's too much that needs 54 hour possessions, if we're having more electrification and more W12 clearance in future Control Periods.

 

[455driver]

Do all those on here who advocate people to work on Christmas day and Boxing day actually work on those days themselves?

Or any other bank holiday for that matter?
You know all the other bank holidays when we are at work for flat rate!

 

[Mag_seven]

I wonder how many of those advocating that railway workers should be working today are sitting comfortably at home with a large glass of red because they themselves are not at work? Don't do what I do, do what I say?

 

[DarloRich]

We could, I suppose, buy out Christmas and Boxing Day holiday entitlements from staff, but it'll come at a cost - let us do a Boxing Day ticket supplement and count the number of seconds before you're crying like a spoilt brat about how expensive it is wah-wah-wah.

Staff are now on-duty, and you're stuck on a platform, face like thunder because of the ticket price, when the staff you're paying to work tell you it's a rail replacement bus service because the line you want is buried under cranes and engineering trains.

See, fast food outlets don't need to close at Christmas because they can do their maintenance and upgrades in a couple of hours here and there, or not bother if it's anything like Casey Jones. Airports can shift things around and do things out of other terminals, use other runways, or use alternative airports, if I've got a Kirow crane and Movax piling rig on the end of it blocking two tracks and there's a bridge worth of rubble sitting across the line, you're going nowhere at all, son, unless you can hook a dozen reindeers up (subject to coupling compatibility and bang road working) and fly your train over a series of physical obstructions.

Pressing like button until broken! Well put
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I went to the football today by train (Ayr utd) guess what I would have done if scotrail didn't run? Drive!

Trains are loaded like a Sunday evening and the double set on one train was carting about lots of empty space

 

[Bellbell]

Apologies no offence was intended

No problem

 

[Agent_c]

Thank you to all of those who have been out doing engineering work yesterday, today, and this weekend. Given how little people seem to understand the need for maintenance, how long jobs take, the impossibility of running a train on a line you're working on, or that its the quietest week for rail demand... its clear who the transport industry's unsung heroes are.

Those of us who like to arrive safely and on time at our destinations appreciate it.

 

[Bellbell]

If that bothers you, there are banks whose call centres open 364 days a year (though the Co-op Bank used to open Christmas Day with a team of about 3 people in, and rarely got very many calls so stopped doing so).

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I have no problem with call centre workers having Boxing Day off and am quite happy to speak to them tomorrow about my credit limit; if my card was lost/stolen then I could of course speak to them today. Thanks anyway though.

 

[muz379]

The replacement bus issue is one that also needs considering seriously . Given the large numbers of engineering possessions that take place from close of service on x mas even right the way through sometimes to new years and given many bus companies also dont operate on boxing day sourcing bus drivers for replacement services could be very difficult and expensive . Ironic that you might go through the process to make train crew contractually liable for working boxing day then not be able to offer any service due to engineering works and limitations in replacement road transport .

I wonder how many of those advocating that railway workers should be working today are sitting comfortably at home with a large glass of red because they themselves are not at work? Don't do what I do, do what I say?

exactly .

And how many people wanted buses and trains to take themselves around today because they had a lot of ale yesterday and would have still been over the limit this morning .

 

[HarleyDavidson]

We have a public transportation system, I pay my taxes and I pitch up at stations willing to pay for tickets. I feel that today, when so much of the rest of the service sector (private and public) is providing a service, the railway industry should "take responsibility" for my transportation.



Well, ultimately people should be forced if necessary. If you want to work on the railways then that's the way it should be IMHO. A friend of mine is an airline purser, another is a manager of a fast food outlet. Both can be rostered to work today. They can request not to work today, but the service has to be delivered, and if necessary they must work. Neither of them thinks there is anything wrong about this.

I fully understand that lines may need to be closed for engineering works that would cause even more disruption if done at other times. But the near-shut down that occurs today just makes the railway industry look out of step.

Not a paid up member of the party led by Mr A Hitler are you perchance?

Your attitude stinks, if you want to have that sort of attitude, then may I be so bold as to say "Clear" off to the USA, where they love that sort of attitude, where money is GOD and workers have zip rights. I'm sure that you'll fit in quite nicely.

 

[PHILIPE]

Supposedly, Boxing Day services had never been withdrawn. We wouldn't have this thread, perhaps, thought nothing of it and just got on with the job. Similatr to line closures, once you withdraw something it's difficult to put back.

 

[bramling]

Not a paid up member of the party led by Mr A Hitler are you perchance?

Your attitude stinks, if you want to have that sort of attitude, then may I be so bold as to say "Clear" off to the USA, where they love that sort of attitude, where money is GOD and workers have zip rights. I'm sure that you'll fit in quite nicely.

Evidently it's OK as long as it only affects others. And most people won't want to pay extra either.

No one has yet produced a convincing reason why people need to travel by rail on these two days, as opposed to the whole of the rest of the year. Same with all the other institutions which people also manage without.

I'm fine with working Boxing Day - as long as it becomes a normal working day just like any other. Then all the moaners will be at work anyway.

 

[SPADTrap]

Evidently it's OK as long as it only affects others. And most people won't want to pay extra either.

No one has yet produced a convincing reason why people need to travel by rail on these two days, as opposed to the whole of the rest of the year. Same with all the other institutions which people also manage without.

I'm fine with working Boxing Day - as long as it becomes a normal working day just like any other. Then all the moaners will be at work anyway.

Race to the bottom?

 

[Antman]

I wonder how many of those advocating that railway workers should be working today are sitting comfortably at home with a large glass of red because they themselves are not at work? Don't do what I do, do what I say?

Maybe they're sat at home because they don't drive and there is no public transport available?

And presumably should you require the emergency services today you'll ring 999 and expect them to arrive pronto?

From a selfish point of view I couldn't care less, I've got a car and I don't need to rely on public transport but clearly a lot of people do.

 

[muz379]

Maybe they're sat at home because they don't drive and there is no public transport available?

And presumably should you require the emergency services today you'll ring 999 and expect them to arrive pronto?

From a selfish point of view I couldn't care less, I've got a car and I don't need to rely on public transport but clearly a lot of people do.

Taxis are no doubt available in most parts of the country , albeit at a premium but then if you wanna hit the sales then you need to factor this in .

Personally if I had reason to dial 999 I would expect response times would be longer than normal as there would be less staff on duty to respond .

That being said emergency services are essential for preservation of life . Going to the sales or going to a football match are not essential for the preservation of life .

 

[6Gman]

Why review our contracts? This is what I don't understand.

Because that's the only way they can ensure staffing. Not saying it should be done, but could prove necessary if Boxing Day services were to be restored (and it could, of course, be applied only to new entrants).

On the issue of demand my first (or possibly second) Christmas on the railway was one of the years they ran on Boxing Day, albeit a very limited service, on (part of) the WCML. The trains were packed.

 

[LAX54]

I think its only TOC's and FOCs that have the 'choice' to work at Christmas, Network Rail staff, if required to work, have to come in, you can have time off at Christmas if 1) Box not required. 2) You manage to get someone to cover your shift if you are booked on, but would like it 'off'
But I would have thought these days, most IECC's / PSB's / ROCs are open anyway as a a matter of course.

 

[GB]

I think its only TOC's and FOCs that have the 'choice' to work at Christmas....

No choice here. If its your rostered day to work and they have a job for you, you don't have a choice but to work it.

 

[Richard1960]

Taxis are no doubt available in most parts of the country , albeit at a premium but then if you wanna hit the sales then you need to factor this in .

Personally if I had reason to dial 999 I would expect response times would be longer than normal as there would be less staff on duty to respond .

That being said emergency services are essential for preservation of life . Going to the sales or going to a football match are not essential for the preservation of life .

Yes they are and i am paying that premium not to hit the sales,or go to a football match but to get to my work on boxing day in the NHS,and yes we have to work christmas day as well.

 

[455driver]

Supposedly, Boxing Day services had never been withdrawn. We wouldn't have this thread, perhaps, thought nothing of it and just got on with the job. Similatr to line closures, once you withdraw something it's difficult to put back.

We would still have had this thread it would just have had Christmas day in the title instead of Boxing day!

As I now live in jimbo99s world I am now being forced against my will to go into the kitchen to do all the dishes!
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Race to the bottom?

Oh don't worry 'they' wont be giving up their Boxing day any time soon so neither would we!

Turning that on its head, we have to work every other bank holiday so I suggest that everyone else does as well, I mean its only fair!

 

[dk1]

No choice here. If its your rostered day to work and they have a job for you, you don't have a choice but to work it.

My contract states that Christmas & Boxing Day are part of MY annual leave & are guaranteed days off. Just try & change that without my approval if they dare.

 

[455driver]

Maybe they're sat at home because they don't drive and there is no public transport available?

And presumably should you require the emergency services today you'll ring 999 and expect them to arrive pronto?

From a selfish point of view I couldn't care less, I've got a car and I don't need to rely on public transport but clearly a lot of people do.

Maybe they haver got a car but are still ****ed from last night so cant drive, if people need to get around then their are taxis that will take them, nearly all taxi drivers are self employed so it is their choice whether to work or not!

What percentage of people don't have another form of transportation available to them?
Not very high I would reckon!
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I think its only TOC's and FOCs that have the 'choice' to work at Christmas, Network Rail staff, if required to work, have to come in, you can have time off at Christmas if 1) Box not required. 2) You manage to get someone to cover your shift if you are booked on, but would like it 'off'
But I would have thought these days, most IECC's / PSB's / ROCs are open anyway as a a matter of course.

Most FOC staff don't have a choice either!
Its only really TOC staff who don't have to work although there are some volunteers needed to babysit the trains etc!

 

[ainsworth74]

Its only really TOC staff who don't have to work although there are some volunteers needed to babysit the trains etc!

Do they got lonely if there isn't anyone to keep them company?

 

[muz379]

Because that's the only way they can ensure staffing. Not saying it should be done, but could prove necessary if Boxing Day services were to be restored (and it could, of course, be applied only to new entrants).

Given there are tocs who struggle to cover their train plan at the best of times and rely on RDW to actually run trains . Changing contracts is not going to ensure a service can be run especially given I cannot imagine a large uptake in RDW volunteers for boxing day duties .

I know of depots at some tocs who struggle to cover friday , saturday and sunday train plans through december because of the drop in RDW .

Tbh if a RDW ban meant that a load of planned boxing day services had to be cancelled due to lack of traincrew we would still hear the "lazy guards/drivers" rhetoric from the few who like to claim workers exercising their right to days off are lazy .

Not to mention as i said earlier negotiating train crew contracts would be fruitless if there was no drivers for road transport available to cover services when the inevitable possessions which happen over this period mean lines are closed .

Yes they are and i am paying that premium not to hit the sales,or go to a football match but to get to my work on boxing day in the NHS,and yes we have to work Christmas day as well.

Nhs workers , and patients needing urgent treatment along with other emergency service workers are groups I do feel have a legitimate reason to travel on boxing day . However i do not feel there are significant enough numbers to warrant a full public transport service . Employers of these groups of people should look into providing subsidized transport or provide such a premium that even with the extra transport costs the worker is still left with an increased level of remuneration for the work .


I used to work in a business that operated on boxing day . at the time I did not own a car and the distance was too far to walk or cycle so I arranged for my boss to take a detour on the way in and give me a lift . For which I was very grateful .Otherwise I would have ended up probably loosing moneyy . Even being in that situation I did not begrudge the bus drivers their day off and took responsibility for the fact that I have entered myself into that contract and had 12 months in advance to plan for my transport on that day .

 

[455driver]

Do they got lonely if there isn't anyone to keep them company?

I don't know because I always give my trains a nice cuddle!

Its because the trains might not start if they get (properly) cold, most trains are only off for a few hours before they are started up again and moved around.
Its only when they are under maintenance that they get (properly) cold and they are in the shed and normally connected up to the battery charger so they will start without killing the batteries.

Its a different story when they are out in the yard, its freezing cold (okay the weather is mild this year) and they have been off for over 48 hours because the engines get cold and tight, the oil thickens and the start batteries lose a bit, cue lots of non starters needing dragging around to get them to the charging points, or have somebody start them up a couple of times a day and let them time themselves off, normally about 15 minutes which is enough to keep the engine oil thinned and batteries topped up.

 

[SPADTrap]

I don't know because I always give my trains a nice cuddle!

Its because the trains might not start if they get (properly) cold, most trains are only off for a few hours before they are started up again and moved around.
Its only when they are under maintenance that they get (properly) cold and they are in the shed and normally connected up to the battery charger so they will start without killing the batteries.

Its a different story when they are out in the yard, its freezing cold (okay the weather is mild this year) and they have been off for over 48 hours because the engines get cold and tight, the oil thickens and the start batteries lose a bit, cue lots of non starters needing dragging around to get them to the charging points, or have somebody start them up a couple of times a day and let them time themselves off, normally about 15 minutes which is enough to keep the engine oil thinned and batteries topped up.

Heads to unit with cuppa, pan up..:razz:

 

[Class 170101]

That's as much about signal boxes as anything. Marylebone - Oxford Parkway is all under one signal box (Marylebone) but going to Aylesbury via Amersham or to Banbury would involve opening other boxes up which may be a problem logistically.

How many Boxes are involved between Marylebone and Aylesbury via Amersham? Remember the Underground was operating today between Baker Street and Amersham.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Might the easiest way to operate that be to clip some points and run a single unit shuttle using temporary train staff working?