BR ticket: second class single Leeds to Menston 70p

[kingqueen]

This British Rail ticket was being used as a bookmark in a book donated to the charity shop in which I work.
A second class single from Leeds to Menton was 70p. The equivalent ticket today is £4.60.
There's no year on this ticket.
Anybody hazard a guess?

 

[Ken H]

This British Rail ticket was being used as a bookmark in a book donated to the charity shop in which I work.
A second class single from Leeds to Menton was 70p. The equivalent ticket today is £4.60.
There's no year on this ticket.
Anybody hazard a guess?

I remember these being used at Leeds. They had huge racks of pre printed tickets with just destination on. Think they came into use when the new ticket office was opened when leeds station was rebuilt in the late 1960's
(Bit of a problem here. i dont know if these tickets pre-date decimalisation (1974) but Leeds station opened 1967. maybe the new ticket hall opened with card tickets.)

The top right corner has been removed because its a single. They used scissors.

the 643 is the station number, pre-printed at the top, and printed by the ticket machine next to the price

This one is unusual because Menston isnt printed in red - its been overprinted later. Rare stations could use one with a blank destination at the top and the clerk would write the station in.

The ticket machines were like massive cash registers.

The audit roll was supposed to be machine readable so statistics for rail use could be done by computer. The number next to the price is supposed to be machine readable.

The clerk would find a ticket blank from a rack, insert it in the machine, press keys for the ticket type, price, date, class etc.
With each lot tickets for a station there would be a card with the prices to that station. If no blank for that station, he would use the national fares manual. The page for Menston would have 643 on it so he could type it in the machine.

 

[hexagon789]

Bit of a problem here. i dont know if these tickets pre-date decimalisation (1974)

Decimalisation was on 15th February 1971, so I'd assume the ticket is post then.

 

[kingqueen]

Thank you

 

[30907]

Well after 1971. IIRC Shipley to Leeds was only about 1.60 in 1997 when I moved there - Metro fares were cheap then! And still aren't bad...

 

[Ken H]

Decimalisation was on 15th February 1971, so I'd assume the ticket is post then.

Of course it was. remember it well. Still mourn getting a Milky Way for a thruppeny bit.

Thanks for correction.

 

[Ken H]

I remember these being used at Leeds. They had huge racks of pre printed tickets with just destination on. Think they came into use when the new ticket office was opened when leeds station was rebuilt in the late 1960's
(Bit of a problem here. i dont know if these tickets pre-date decimalisation (1974) but Leeds station opened 1967. maybe the new ticket hall opened with card tickets.)

The top right corner has been removed because its a single. They used scissors.

the 643 is the station number, pre-printed at the top, and printed by the ticket machine next to the price

This one is unusual because Menston isnt printed in red - its been overprinted later. Rare stations could use one with a blank destination at the top and the clerk would write the station in.

The ticket machines were like massive cash registers.

The audit roll was supposed to be machine readable so statistics for rail use could be done by computer. The number next to the price is supposed to be machine readable.

The clerk would find a ticket blank from a rack, insert it in the machine, press keys for the ticket type, price, date, class etc.
With each lot tickets for a station there would be a card with the prices to that station. If no blank for that station, he would use the national fares manual. The page for Menston would have 643 on it so he could type it in the machine.

Note also the punch bottom right made by a guard/ticket man. There were loads of different patterns. dont know the significance. If it was a return the guard would have clipped it top right on the but thats been cut off.

 

[Bevan Price]

Note also the punch bottom right made by a guard/ticket man. There were loads of different patterns. dont know the significance. If it was a return the guard would have clipped it top right on the but thats been cut off.

I think it may possibly be an old (obsolete) ticket punch used to indicate 3rd Class travel.
I seem to recall also seeing "2" shaped punch marks, used for 2nd Class travel.

 

[hexagon789]

Of course it was. remember it well. Still mourn getting a Milky Way for a thruppeny bit.

Thanks for correction.

Have a handful of those in a tin!

 

[A Challenge]

I have one of them as well - 1967

 

[hexagon789]

I have one as well!

Off topic but I prefer the older silver ones!


Anyway, to the ticket I'm guessing 1971 to about early 1980s when I think they brought in the current style or similar one.

 

[47271]

I've consulted with someone who knows about BR in the 80s (okay, my Dad) and their view is that it could be as recent as 1986, he's pretty certain is that's when the current orange credit card sized stock started to appear.

On the basis of the antiques dealer rule that when you turn up something old it's probably newer than you think and worth less than you'd hope, I'd guess at 1984, but that's totally on a hunch and I've got absolutely no evidence to back that up.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

The ticket machines were like massive cash registers.

Indeed, the machines were actually built by the American company ‘National Cash Registers’.

The machines survived in use into the late 80s

 

[martinsh]

Indeed, the machines were actually built by the American company ‘National Cash Registers’.

The machines survived in use into the late 80s

Yes the ticket machine type was the NCR51, used on Eastern, Western and Scottish regions. Looked like a glorified cash register. From the fare, I'm guessing about 1980 for this ticket.

 

[kingqueen]

Thank you all

 

[davetheguard]

I think it may possibly be an old (obsolete) ticket punch used to indicate 3rd Class travel.
I seem to recall also seeing "2" shaped punch marks, used for 2nd Class travel.

On the Western Region, there were "5" shaped punch marks, which indicated that it had been clipped by a Western Region Guards' punch. Different geographical areas had different marks, different grades -e.g. Travelling Ticket Inspectors- also had there own identifying punch marks.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Of course it was. remember it well. Still mourn getting a Milky Way for a thruppeny bit.

Thanks for correction.

But that (your milky way for 3d) would have been well before 1971, surely? I think they were 3d in about 1962 or so. (Cadbury's had a 3d bar of chocolate too, for those of us on hard times. Thin and long, unlike the chunky 6d bar )

Going even more OT, did the thruppeny bit last till the end of old money? I have a feeling they withdrew it earlier - not that I can see any logic as to why they would do that. So maybe I've just got that wrong.

 

[Ken H]

Off topic but I prefer the older silver ones!


Anyway, to the ticket I'm guessing 1971 to about early 1980s when I think they brought in the current style or similar one.

there was APTIS, but there was INTIS first

But that (your milky way for 3d) would have been well before 1971, surely? I think they were 3d in about 1962 or so. (Cadbury's had a 3d bar of chocolate too, for those of us on hard times. Thin and long, unlike the chunky 6d bar )

Going even more OT, did the thruppeny bit last till the end of old money? I have a feeling they withdrew it earlier - not that I can see any logic as to why they would do that. So maybe I've just got that wrong.

lasted till 31 December 1971

The old money went very quickly. There was supposed to be a period when shops could retain the old money but I think they all converted within a few days.
Once you had spent your pennies and thrupenny bits you never got them again. Shops didnt give them in change - they paid the old money into the bank.

tanners (6d 2.5p) lasted longer as did shillings (5p) and two bob bits (10p) lasted longer.

3d milky way was probably 1969 ish

 

[xotGD]

The missing top right corner of the ticket indicates that this is a single. The missing piece carried the word 'Return' and would be removed with a pair of scissors if you were buying a single.

 

[Taunton]

Taunton was one of the very first to have such ticket machines installed, late 1960s. It may have just been first in the South-West, it was featured on the television news (possibly only Points South-West on Westward TV), and being aware we all in the town tuned in for a couple of fleeting shots of staff we knew selling the tickets on the first day. Being on TV was a Big Thing in those days.

Passengers used to Edmonson-sized tickets going in their wallet or pocket were shown being perplexed over where to put them.

It seemed extraordinary that for such a ticket issuing modernisation, instead of taking a Single from the old rack, the clerk now had to produce a large pair of what looked like kitchen scissors and snip a corner off. This was not shown on the television!

Indeed, the machines were actually built by the American company ‘National Cash Registers’.

NCR were market leaders in 1950s-80s mechanised accounting machines, far beyond just cash registers, and were quite successful with early computers as well. They sold vast numbers to banks, major businesses, etc, and the railway. Although ultimately US-owned they were effectively a major UK business in its own right, rather like Ford cars of the era, the machines were made in a large series of factories they had in Dundee, where they were long the largest employer in the city. Their head office was on Marylebone Road in London, just by Marylebone station, almost next door to the BR HQ at number 222.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Standard Returns valid for 3 months. When this ended may give a clue.

 

[krus_aragon]

tanners (6d 2.5p) lasted longer as did shillings (5p) and two bob bits (10p) lasted longer.

I recall seeing the latter two in circulation into the 1990s, because their decimal equivalents were the same size. They only went altogether when the 5p and 10p pieces were replaced with the smaller versions we use today (1990 and 1992/3 respectively).

 

[ag51ruk]

I think it may possibly be an old (obsolete) ticket punch used to indicate 3rd Class travel.
I seem to recall also seeing "2" shaped punch marks, used for 2nd Class travel.

That's an E I think (for Eastern Region) - there was a contract document which had pictures of all of the different shaped punches available in the late 80s, there were lots of them but I don't still have a copy.

There are a few things that help date the ticket - it is pre-1987 because it still shows Second Class rather than Standard - but by then most of those machines were being replaced by APTIS anyway. The ticket types mention Savers, and they weren't introduced until the 80s (although the codes on the machines weren't updated - W for Savers was originally used for Weekend Returns, and P was for Priv tickets). So I would guess 83 or 84.

It's unusual not to have the year shown after the date, I have a number of examples of NCR tickets and they do all include the year.