Brake Vans!

[RichmondCommu]

Yes thats right, brake vans! I'm curious to know on which freight services they were last used? I'm guessing that it might have been coal trains using the Denby branch due to all the level crossings. From what i remember those trains ran with a brake van at either end until i'm guessing the line was closed.

Thanks in advance,

Richmond Commuter!

 

[Drsatan]

Yes thats right, brake vans! I'm curious to know on which freight services they were last used? I'm guessing that it might have been coal trains using the Denby branch due to all the level crossings. From what i remember those trains ran with a brake van at either end until i'm guessing the line was closed.

Thanks in advance,

Richmond Commuter!

Until the mid 1980s most freight trains in Scotland were unfitted, so they required a brake van on each train. All that changed under Chris Green when he was regional manager for Scotland.

 

[boing_uk]

In the early 90's, the unfitted loose coupled ilmenite wagons for Tioxide on the Humber Bank often had a brake van on the rear.

 

[DarloRich]

The Limestone trains on the Wensleydale up to Redmire had a brake van into the 90's. I think this was to carry staff to open and close the various level crossing gates and help with shunting

 

[RichmondCommu]

In the early 90's, the unfitted loose coupled ilmenite wagons for Tioxide on the Humber Bank often had a brake van on the rear.

Thanks for this. Were the tanks replaced by modern versions or did the traffic simply cease?
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Thanks for your replies. I've often wondered whether it was common place for guards to stand on their veranda having a contemplative smoke watching the sun set. How good would that have been? That said, in winter with wagons to be uncoupled it must have been an absolute pig of a job at times! I'm assuming here that brake vans had stoves to keep warm and cook things; were they coal or oil fired?

 

[Masboroughlad]

I used to love seeing the freight trains with proper old guards van shoot through Rotherham Masborough station in the 70's. Happy memories .

 

[O L Leigh]

Brake vans were used on MGR trains along certain branches, though not for the purposes of braking the train as MGRs are not unfitted. They were simply there as a conveyance at the rear of the train for the freight guard who was required to operate manual crossing gates at certain locations along the line. Whether or not these were the last such workings for vehicles of this type I couldn't say, but this certainly happened during the 1980's.

O L Leigh

 

[Welshman]

I would imagine the job would have been a dream on a warm summer's evening with a considerate driver, but a different matter entirely on a bitterly-cold night with a driver not known for his sensitive use of the regulator or brake, and in a hurry to get home!

The stoves were coal-fired, and I read that more than one unfortunate guard ended up wrapped round one, thanks to a heavy-handed driver!

There's an interesting section of memories of guarding on the Settle & Carlisle line by Dick Fawcett in his "Ganger, Guard and Signalman" published by Bradford Barton in 1981, ISBN 0 85153 397 3. If it's out of print now, it may still be available second-hand on Amazon. It's a good read.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for this. Were the tanks replaced by modern versions or did the traffic simply cease?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks for your replies. I've often wondered whether it was common place for guards to stand on their veranda having a contemplative smoke watching the sun set. How good would that have been? That said, in winter with wagons to be uncoupled it must have been an absolute pig of a job at times! I'm assuming here that brake vans had stoves to keep warm and cook things; were they coal or oil fired?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I would imagine the job would have been a dream on a warm summer's evening with a considerate driver, but a different matter entirely on a bitterly-cold night with a driver not known for his sensitive use of the regulator or brake, and in a hurry to get home!

The stoves were coal-fired, and I read that more than one unfortunate guard ended up wrapped round one, thanks to a heavy-handed driver!

There's an interesting section of memories of guarding on the Settle & Carlisle line by Dick Fawcett in his "Ganger, Guard and Signalman" published by Bradford Barton in 1981, ISBN 0 85153 397 3. If it's out of print now, it may still be available second-hand on Amazon. It's a good read.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---[/QUOTE

Thanks for the book tip. I'll start looking!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Brake vans were used on MGR trains along certain branches, though not for the purposes of braking the train as MGRs are not unfitted. They were simply there as a conveyance at the rear of the train for the freight guard who was required to operate manual crossing gates at certain locations along the line. Whether or not these were the last such workings for vehicles of this type I couldn't say, but this certainly happened during the 1980's.

O L Leigh

Thanks for this. A similar sort of operation occurred on the Little Eaton to Denby branch where there were at least 4 manually operated crossing gates in the space of four to five miles.

 

[sprinterguy]

I reckon the last brake vans to see use on the main line must have been the "SHARK" ballast plough vans that were positioned at the centre of ten wagon rakes of "Seacow" ballast hoppers (In my experience). They lasted into the early years of this millenium and were the most rustic, rickety looking rail vehicles I've seen in use on the national network. It's nice to see that Hornby now make models of both designs of wagon, so it is now possible to recreate this feature that was such a common sight during my childhood.

Sunderland South Dock had a few BR 20t brake vans fitted with warning horns and air brakes for propelling oil tanks into the Petrofina terminal and MGR rakes onto the Quayside, and this practice continued into the late eighties at least: I've got a picture of a couple of them dated 1986.

 

[142094]

I've read somewhere that they were used for sighting purposes on MGRs at a power station, but unfortunately can't remember which power station it was. I think it was used on HAA rakes so could have been still in use into the 90s.

 

[CosherB]

I used to think they might provide a nice way to see the countryside roll by until I read a few accounts from ex-goods guards. Apparently they rode so roughly above about 30mph you couldn't sit down, or stand idly on the veranda as you'd be thrown off your feet. You had to try to wedge yourself into a gap and brace yourself - hardly comfortable.

And of course on loose-coupled trains the back and forth jerking (!) must have been awful!

 

[Hydro]

I definitely remember seeing a video of an EWS operated binliner train which had the last wagon converted into a brake van of sorts. The train was required to make a lengthy propelling move, and on the last flat wagon a converted empty container with a viewing area was carried. The shunter/trainman would stand in this container and control the propelling move, similar to why a few brake vans were carried in the 1990's (some of which received air horns and yellow ends for use when propelling).

 

[The Crab]

I think one of the last revenue earning brake van trains were the chlorine tanks from, I think, Anglesey to Hull. I used to see this at Clay Cross about 1993.

 

[richa2002]

I definitely remember seeing a video of an EWS operated binliner train which had the last wagon converted into a brake van of sorts. The train was required to make a lengthy propelling move, and on the last flat wagon a converted empty container with a viewing area was carried. The shunter/trainman would stand in this container and control the propelling move, similar to why a few brake vans were carried in the 1990's (some of which received air horns and yellow ends for use when propelling).

Pretty sure that was on the Cricklewood - Forders binliner and the wagons carrying that viewing area were still in use in the late 90s, possibly the early 00s too.

 

[Ploughman]

And then there was this.
http://www.yorkareagroup.co.uk/web_images/caboose_nymr.jpg

Detail as far as we know about it.
Empty freightliner boxes began trial running in 1965 but a dispute arose between BR, ASLEF and the NUR over the guard riding in the rear cab of the loco. The caboose was brought in as a way to provide accomodation for the guard. Previous trials had involved running a brake van behind the loco and use of a converted 10 ft container. The trials were not a success due to the ride quality of the vehicle. Some guards suffered injuries arising from being thrown around the vehicle especially when travelling over pointwork.
Agreement subsequently reached with the other union for the guard to ride in the rear cab as originally proposed.
This example survived as a crane drivers bothy at Stourton Freightliner depot Leeds. Purchased by a PW Volunteer.
2 other examples known 1 at The NRM York (wrongly numbered 09Z04) and another example was in existance at Southampton but not known if still survives.

 

[33056]

Pretty sure that was on the Cricklewood - Forders binliner and the wagons carrying that viewing area were still in use in the late 90s, possibly the early 00s too.

Yes it was, you can just about see it behind the loco in this photo ; not sure when they stopped using it.

Also, don't forget that Nuclear trains used to have brake vans (and barrier wagons) until relatively recently.

 

[9K43]

My last journey in a BV was from Turners Lane Jct at Wakefield Kirkgate bound for Neville Hill Depot.
The BV was a wrecked Shark, with no fire on the go, so it was very cold journey. We travelled thru Norminton, Stourton, past Engine Shed Junction, Leeds thru Leeds City Station upto Neville Hill Depot.
That was Christmas Week 1991.
In the early 1980's nearly all the ballast trains had a BV at each end, quite a lot of the pit jobs were loose coupled and there were many goods trains that had a fitted head and a BV swinging at the rear of the train.
I enjoyed coming to work on a Saturday/ Sunday on a ballast job with a BV, get some good coal on the fire, your mashing can on the go, what more could you as for?
I have slept many hours in the brake whilst on these trains.
All BVs were removed from trains in the very early 1990's, when all the un braked trucks were got rid of.
My first job in a BV was 9K28 from HM to Brodsworth Pit at Doncaster(Castle Hills Jct) to bring out loaded HTV's.
This was July 1982 and I had just moved to HM from Huddersfield and was road learning the link.
I was with a young guard who had a nickname of " Plug. " who was showing me the ropes.
These were happy days when we got £130 a week with a restday £150 with a RD and a Sunday.
At HM there was a guards links with 12 links each with 12 men in it(144).
Now there are no guards left.
Alas all this has gone, and the job now is ruled by young managers that have not got a clue.
They cant learn railway work at University.

 

[matchmaker]

My most vivid memory of a brake van was on the Severn Valley Railway one summer evening back in the late 1970's. An evening working had been arranged to deliver a wheelset from Bridgnorth to Bewdley, consisting of (IIRC) Hinton Manor, a lowflat with the wheelset, and a Toad brake van. I went along for the trip......

Our driver was giving it great guns with the consequent shower of clag and all was well until we noticed a bit of extra smoke - not caused by Welsh steam coal.

A red hot cinder had lodged in the front platform of the Toad and we were on fire hock:hock:

Much frantic waving at the footplate crew produced no response apart from cheery waves back :roll:

We were not sure what to do before we were incinerated, until the several pints of Marston's Pedigree that I'd consumed in the Railwayman's Arms along with my ploughmans that mealtime were brought into use in recycled form

 

[Wyvern]

Just before brake vans were taken out of use on air braked trains and the guards started riding in the back cabs of the locos, some vans were fitted for air brake operation and had a yellow-painted panel each side.

There was a regular steel train running up the North Midland line.

Does anyone remember what equipment was included. Did the air simply operate the van's brakes or did the guard have some control?

 

[matchmaker]

Just before brake vans were taken out of use on air braked trains and the guards started riding in the back cabs of the locos, some vans were fitted for air brake operation and had a yellow-painted panel each side.

There was a regular steel train running up the North Midland line.

Does anyone remember what equipment was included. Did the air simply operate the van's brakes or did the guard have some control?

The only brake on a brake van was normally the handbrake, I think. They were not fitted with continuous brakes, but were piped and the guard had a brake valve to operate the continuous brake on the train (if any).

 

[9K43]

A person asked what it was like on a summers evening riding home in a BV.
I would venture onto the verandah to check the tail lamps were lit, and the corect shades were in the required side lamps.
Running at 35mph in a good roller bearing van was like being in a Rolls Royce, if the stove was lit if would glow cherry red half way up the stove pipe.
A mashing can full of water would boil in no time at all.
You could amuse yorself reading all the graffiti that was written on the BV walls.
Box Car Willy was a frequent writer and also someone called Eggy.
One such comment was
" Join the Tinsley Preservation Society, attend your Branch Meeting."
On the Ballast turns the plate layers would come in and get warm, or out of the rain.
This was good company, but I made sure that nobody smoked in my van.
This job was one handed down from heaven but at the time I did not think so.
That was 25 years ago.