Breastfeeding Mother Forced to Stand on Train

[Intermodal]

I am 40ish ( so hardly ancient) and I am informing you, quite realistically and factually I might add, that no one young or old has ever complained to me for offering them a seat. Some people have said no, thank you but no one has ever given me an earful. As I said you are welcome to disagree with my stance. I think not offering a seat is rude.

Well then of course our experiences differ and as two different people we have different opinions I don't wish my posts to be taken as any kind of personal attack, and think you have taken my tone the wrong way. All the best!

 

[Shoeburysam]

I think sometimes people are so up tight that they take offence to anything. It’s this modern world of social media dominance, people are so ready to video or photograph and shame people for anything they do.

The lady in the article would of complained either way as that is what she was seeking to do. Call me what you want but I just don’t understand why modern women want to breastfeed in public. Not got a problem with it, just don’t understand why. Especially on a train of all places.

 

[northwichcat]

I am 40ish ( so hardly ancient) and I am informing you, quite realistically and factually I might add, that no one young or old has ever complained to me for offering them a seat. Some people have said no, thank you but no one has ever given me an earful. As I said you are welcome to disagree with my stance. I think not offering a seat is rude.

I find there are some older passengers, who when only travelling a short distance, find going to a seat and sitting down, then getting up and moving to the doors more of an inconvenience and prefer to be stood next to the doors for a few minutes.

 

[DarloRich]

Well then of course our experiences differ and as two different people we have different opinions I don't wish my posts to be taken as any kind of personal attack, and think you have taken my tone the wrong way. All the best!

not considered a personal attack at all. Simply setting out my view and experience which differs to yours. As you say people can have different opinions and experiances.

 

[DarloRich]

I find there are some older passengers, who when only travelling a short distance, find going to a seat and sitting down, then getting up and moving to the doors more of an inconvenience and prefer to be stood next to the doors for a few minutes.

Ok - they are completely at liberty to refuse the offer of a seat. No one is forced to accept the offer of seat!

 

[AlterEgo]

A seat should be offered to any standing lady

Why? They can stand as well as I can.

 

[DarloRich]

Why? They can stand as well as I can.

Why? - good manners.

As I said: This is the way I was brought up and consider it good manners. You are welcome to disagree. My view wont change.

 

[vicki brown]

I can't speak for other women, but personally would never be offended if someone offered me a seat. I would never read anything into it at all, I would just think it was kind of the person to offer.

 

[shredder1]

Clearly it is an issue of age and generation. I don't wish to be seen to be taking any position in this thread. I am 24 and I am informing you, quite realistically and factually I might add, how a large proportion of woman of my generation and the generation above would respond to this sort of comment. I know this through personal experience - I was always taught by my Grandfather to give up seats to a woman - and yet in practise it does not work for me. As already stated I get bitten back at and female friends will tell me it is wrong.

I suspect those older than myself "get away with it" as it is clear to everyone it is a generation issue - but these are real views held by real people.

I think personaly its a societal issue, society has become more selfish, more segregated and has lost many values and manners, in my life time, I`m 67 and have grandchildren older than you, (6 of them), thankfully they still live to "so called" old fashion values

 

[AlterEgo]

Why? - good manners.

As I said: This is the way I was brought up and consider it good manners. You are welcome to disagree. My view wont change.

Yes sorry to make you repeat, I hadn’t read your previous answer! Whoops.

 

[Bantamzen]

Can open, worms everywhere.....

I agree with @DarloRich to a degree on this, it is good manners to offer your seat but at the same time I also understand where others are coming from when more often than not you get told off for doing so. Its a bit of a paradox of modern society where we are taught good manners, but don't want to offend people by doing so. Personally I make a judgement call, if someone (female or male) looks uncomfortable standing I'll offer my seat up quite happily, and if asked will also do so. I was once asked by a mother to give up my seat for her teenage son, I just gave her a look to say "You must be joking right?" and left her to mutter about how inconsiderate I was. Ho hum!

Back onto the subject though, whilst good manners should have seen someone offer their seat to the lady in question, conversely a simple request to sit down to her fellow passengers would be equally good manners instead of photographing / filming it and posting it up on social media. Which by the way begs the question, if she was able to do so what was she holding onto whist with baby in one arm & the other holding her phone. Some people are a danger to themselves to be honest.

 

[bb21]

Why? - good manners.

As I said: This is the way I was brought up and consider it good manners. You are welcome to disagree. My view wont change.

I just showed your views to two random female colleagues and the feedback I got included the words "old-fashioned", "out of touch", "are women considered less worthy and weaker", and last but not least "sexist", but they appreciated that you had good intentions.

On their possible responses, they would not tell you off for it, but if faced with that offer, they would both decline with a very disapproving "but thank you anyway".

Personally I would offer a seat to a woman breastfeeding if stood up, as they do have a genuine need for it, but not simply because someone is female, just to clarify.

 

[Ianno87]

My wife breastfeeds, but has autism and lacks social confidence to ask somebody for a seat (worried that somebody will say no or react badly).

Disappointed that this thread is berating people in this situation. A bit of pro-activeness from others seats isn't asking the earth...

 

[Esker-pades]

My wife breastfeeds, but has autism and lacks social confidence to ask somebody for a seat (worried that somebody will say no or react badly).

Disappointed that this thread is berating people in this situation. A bit of pro-activeness from others seats isn't asking the earth...

I'm the other way. I am capable of standing for other people, but I have autism so I lack the confidence to ask someone if they want a seat.

 

[Geezertronic]

My wife breastfeeds, but has autism and lacks social confidence to ask somebody for a seat (worried that somebody will say no or react badly).

Disappointed that this thread is berating people in this situation. A bit of pro-activeness from others seats isn't asking the earth...

But an entitlement to expect someone to give up a seat is though. How does the woman know that the passengers around her are not able to give up a seat for reasons she is not aware of? She was able to take a selfie whilst standing, breastfeeding and holding her baby though...

 

[northwichcat]

Another day, another piece of nonsense published by the BBC disguised as 'news'.

It seems the BBC have recruited 'feminist' bloggers pretending to be journalists recently.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

But an entitlement to expect someone to give up a seat is though. How does the woman know that the passengers around her are not able to give up a seat for reasons she is not aware of? She was able to take a selfie whilst standing, breastfeeding and holding her baby though...

Indeed. In London TfL now issue the 'Please offer me a seat' badges for those who don't feel confident to ask; sounds like these should be made available more widely.

 

[Steve Harris]

A seat should be offered to any standing lady.

Why ?

In this modern day and age with equality for all etc.

However, I would gladly offer my seat to a elderly person as they probably would need it more than me.

Edit - No need to answer, as i have just seen the question I have posed, you have answered in a post about 1 hour ago.

 

[northwichcat]

Could of asked for a seat, thought she’d keep stum and have a moan on social media when he got home instead. Sounds about right

Just noticed in the 'news' article she'd described as a blogger so maybe she's trying to get some free publicity for her blog.

 

[Bantamzen]

Indeed. In London TfL now issue the 'Please offer me a seat' badges for those who don't feel confident to ask; sounds like these should be made available more widely.

Until every other passenger has one of course. I get the thinking behind this scheme, but has the potential to simply be used by anyone who doesn't fancy standing all the time.

 

[DarloRich]

I just showed your views to two random female colleagues and the feedback I got included the words "old-fashioned", "out of touch", "are women considered less worthy and weaker", and last but not least "sexist", but they appreciated that you had good intentions.

On their possible responses, they would not tell you off for it, but if faced with that offer, they would both decline with a very disapproving "but thank you anyway".

Personally I would offer a seat to a woman breastfeeding if stood up, as they do have a genuine need for it, but not simply because someone is female, just to clarify.

no worries - if they want to stand they are welcome to. A simple no thank you suffices. There isnt any sexist motive in offering, simply good manners.

But an entitlement to expect someone to give up a seat is though. How does the woman know that the passengers around her are not able to give up a seat for reasons she is not aware of? She was able to take a selfie whilst standing, breastfeeding and holding her baby though...

there is no entitlement ( or a even a sense of one) - how could there be when many here say they wouldn't offer seat?

Why ?

In this modern day and age with equality for all etc.

However, I would gladly offer my seat to a elderly person as they probably would need it more than me.

Why - if it is an age of equality for all the elderly can take their chances with the rest. First come first served...................

 

[northwichcat]

Until every other passenger has one of course. I get the thinking behind this scheme, but has the potential to simply be used by anyone who doesn't fancy standing all the time.

Well yes. I've injured myself before, enough for standing up for a long period to be bad but not enough to require walking around with crotches - could I have claimed one of the badges and if the answer is yes would I have been forced to hand it back by a certain date or would the idea be I hang on to it in case I need it again?

 

[DarloRich]

You see lots of women in London with TfL"baby on board" badges - should I offer them a seat?

 

[Darandio]

You see lots of women in London with TfL"baby on board" badges - should I offer them a seat?

Well no, because that would make you out of touch, old-fashioned and sexist. But then you'd probably end up in the paper for not doing so.

 

[Intermodal]

Why - if it is an age of equality for all the elderly can take their chances with the rest. First come first served...................

It is a fact that elderly people, generally are less able to stand than a younger person. It is in no way close to fact that a woman is less able to stand than a man. Totally separate issues!

 

[al78]

it is good manners, at least the version i was taught. It fine if you want to disagree but I think you are wrong and bordering on rude. My view isnt going to change.

In my opinion it is not about offering a seat purely because of their gender, it is about offering a seat if the person looks like they might need it more than me. That applies to pregnant women disabled people or infirm people who may be unsteady on their feet. Yes there is some subjectivity involved, and if I offer my seat and they choose to take offense and snap at me, that just says something about them, not me. For every one that gets upset, there will be many more that will appreciate it.

Trying to justify ignoring a pregnant woman who may be in considerable discomfort by bring in gender equality campaigns is probably one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen on here, and given what I have seen on here, that is saying something.

 

[Intermodal]

Well no, because that would make you out of touch, old-fashioned and sexist. But then you'd probably end up in the paper for not doing so.

The lady featured in this article is being given far too much credit. To suggest that she was not looking for a problem to write about on the day to further her personal blog and public image is naive. This is just what occurred to her to write on this day. If it was not this, it would be some other controversial and eye-catching article. She's certainly doing a good job - we are all arguing about it!

 

[Geezertronic]

there is no entitlement ( or a even a sense of one) - how could there be when many here say they wouldn't offer seat?

If the lady didn't have a sense of entitlement, then there wouldn't even be the news story that we are discussing here. The fact that she was breastfeeding is irrelevant to me, it is more her attitude that someone should have offered her a seat because she was breastfeeding that bugs me. Like I said, she seemed to cope ok when taking her selfie so she can't have been struggling that bad.

Of all the nonsense over women breastfeeding in public (I fully support a womans right to breastfeed in public for the record), this one has to be the most nonsensical one because of the ladys sense of entitlement that she was "forced" to breastfeed standing up. Her quote was:

She wrote: "What has the world come to that a mother has to stand up on a moving train breastfeeding a wriggling and writhing six-month-old, 20lb baby?

but she was still able to take a selfie...

 

[Intermodal]

Trying to justify ignoring a pregnant woman who may be in considerable discomfort by bring in gender equality campaigns is probably one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen on here, and given what I have seen on here, that is saying something.

Can you point out to me who is suggesting we ignore a pregnant woman in a state of discomfort?

 

[RichJF]

Sadly you're in a lose lose situation on my line. I happily offered my seat to an older lady with luggage who was clearly struggling and got told to "f*** off and stop being condescending" so I sat back down then she proceeded to tut loudly at me. If you do offer it you're seen as a patronising man but then if you don't you're rude and ignorant.

Hopefully the exception rather than the majority. This has tarnished my willingness to give up a seat unless someone is obviously in need and has the courage to ask now sadly.