Breastfeeding Mother Forced to Stand on Train

[Bantamzen]

Well yes. I've injured myself before, enough for standing up for a long period to be bad but not enough to require walking around with crotches - could I have claimed one of the badges and if the answer is yes would I have been forced to hand it back by a certain date or would the idea be I hang on to it in case I need it again?

Reading the TfL site, it seems they don't ask why you need one so yes in theory you could have, and no they wouldn't ask for it back.

https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/please-offer-me-a-seat

You see lots of women in London with TfL"baby on board" badges - should I offer them a seat?

I'm sensing a business opportunity here for a "Can't be arsed standing" badge, £1 a pop sold outside TfL stations.....

The lady featured in this article is being given far too much credit. To suggest that she was not looking for a problem to write about on the day to further her personal blog and public image is naive. This is just what occurred to her to write on this day. If it was not this, it would be some other controversial and eye-catching article. She's certainly doing a good job - we are all arguing about it!

Its becoming a recurring theme on here....

 

[shredder1]

The lady featured in this article is being given far too much credit. To suggest that she was not looking for a problem to write about on the day to further her personal blog and public image is naive. This is just what occurred to her to write on this day. If it was not this, it would be some other controversial and eye-catching article. She's certainly doing a good job - we are all arguing about it!

I think we are mostly debating the issue and our opinions, as against the case proper.

 

[Intermodal]

I think we are mostly debating the issue and our opinions, as against the case proper.

I should know better than to try keep a RailUK thread on topic!

 

[Robertj21a]

What a coincidence......

A female travelling just a few stops...

Has to stand.....

Even so, decides to start breast feeding.....

Happens to be a blogger.....

Still able to take photos......

Seems that she must be Super Woman - or some attention seeker looking to cause problems.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

Until every other passenger has one of course. I get the thinking behind this scheme, but has the potential to simply be used by anyone who doesn't fancy standing all the time.

The key word on these badges is 'Please'. No one is forcing you to give up your seat for a wearer. If they look like they've entered the past two Olympic Games, then don't give up your seat to them.

Clearly the badges are an honesty system, but hopefully the world still has enough decent people that only those who need it wear it, and if they don't need to wear it anymore, they stop.

 

[Clip]

This is going to be unpopular, but while on the one hand campaigning for this;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...national-womens-day-suffragette-a8239236.html

'March4Women rally: Thousands of protesters call for gender equality'

You can't really complain when seats aren't offered.

This really isnt the same at all- this lady had a need over and above those who were sat down(mainly id say) and as such allowances should have been made to accommodate her and let her feed her baby whilst sat and not against the rocking of a train whilst its in motion.

 

[axlecounter]

I totally agree with Rich, how can that possibly be sexist?

It is sexist because you are giving up your seat just because of the sex of the standing person. You may believe that this behaviour has no negative meaning, and you’re perfectly entitled to think so, but don’t tell me there’s no sexism involved in doing something because of the sex of someone.

In todays equality movement, it would be viewed that the "strong, burly" men are helping the "weak, infirm" women who are unable to stand up for a few minutes.

Todays equality “movement”, if we can still speak of such a thing, has, imho, long ago lost the right track, remained a “fighting” thing instead of trying to work for “peace”. A failure on both sexes, I believe. Proved by the fact that we’re still here arguing over what men and women should do and how they should behave based on their sex.

I think sometimes people are so up tight that they take offence to anything. It’s this modern world of social media dominance, people are so ready to video or photograph and shame people for anything they do.
The lady in the article would of complained either way as that is what she was seeking to do. Call me what you want but I just don’t understand why modern women want to breastfeed in public. Not got a problem with it, just don’t understand why. Especially on a train of all places.

Correct me if I’m wrong but from what I’ve seen with our own child you breastfeed when the baby needs it and/or it is time to do so. There’s not many more natural and normal things to do in public than breastfeeding, why would/should anyone hide when doing so is up to sociologists to explain, but I don’t really see why not.


Personally, I offer my seat if I see someone struggling -for whatever reason- to stand up. Common sense, isn’t that enough?

 

[Kanrakuq]

I stopped reading the BBC "News" website, and whenever its offerings crop up in other areas of the internet, I don't find much to tempt me back.

 

[Bantamzen]

The key word on these badges is 'Please'. No one is forcing you to give up your seat for a wearer. If they look like they've entered the past two Olympic Games, then don't give up your seat to them.

Clearly the badges are an honesty system, but hopefully the world still has enough decent people that only those who need it wear it, and if they don't need to wear it anymore, they stop.

You'd hope so, but these days I'm no longer so sure sadly.

 

[FGW_DID]

The next question is;

If she was ‘struggling’ to breastfeed her child standing up and some kindly person had offered her a seat so she could feed her child, would she then have returned the seat (or offered to) once she had finished the feed?

I think not!

 

[kristiang85]

She could have asked for a seat and been sat comfortably within a minute. Generally 99% of people will acquiesce very quickly to such a request.

But, no, its better to inconvenience yourself, take a photo, and get 15 minutes of fame. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[jamesthegill]

Leaving aside some quite extraordinary leaps to conclusions from some in this thread as to the motivations of strangers...

Is it possible that nobody noticed her situation due to being absorbed in whatever reading material/audio distractions/gazing out of the window to pass the time, and then felt too British to say anything when the activity commenced?

 

[bussnapperwm]

Reading the headline initially I had sympathy for the woman, but reading the version in Metro it seemed she had rejected a seat offered to her at the start of her journey, which makes me think that had she not rejected that seat, then maybe others would feel that she was alright to stand

As an aside, would I be right in saying is no legal requirement for passengers to move for a breastfeeding woman anyway, plus some people could take offence at it, even going as far as to be citing indecent exposure?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why - if it is an age of equality for all the elderly can take their chances with the rest. First come first served...................

There is a key difference there. A middle aged woman is not less able to stand than a middle aged man, therefore first come first served. An elderly person is probably less able to stand. As is a woman - or a man - with a baby (the breastfeeding part is basically irrelevant; the situation would not have been practically different were it a man feeding the baby with a bottle).

 

[GodAtum]

And this is why I sit as far away from the door as possible or upstairs on a bus!

 

[Bletchleyite]

As an aside, would I be right in saying is no legal requirement for passengers to move for a breastfeeding woman anyway, plus some people could take offence at it, even going as far as to be citing indecent exposure?

I very much doubt any such case would have any chance of succeeding.

 

[6Gman]

You see lots of women in London with TfL"baby on board" badges - should I offer them a seat?

Yes. Presumably that's why they are wearing the badges.

Personally I was brought up to offer a seat to any older person. However by now I think I count as an older person myself (over 60, just, but people tell me I look more like 50) and I also have health issues (not visible) which limit my fitness to stand.

A few months ago a young lady (20ish) offered me her seat on a Merseyrail service. I declined. And found it quite amusing. But very thoughtful of her.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I very much doubt any such case would have any chance of succeeding.

Personally I know it wouldn't, but you do get a few nutters out there who would try it...

 

[Darandio]

As an aside, would I be right in saying is no legal requirement for passengers to move for a breastfeeding woman anyway, plus some people could take offence at it, even going as far as to be citing indecent exposure?

Only if they were Nigel Farage.

 

[6Gman]

In my opinion it is not about offering a seat purely because of their gender, it is about offering a seat if the person looks like they might need it more than me. That applies to pregnant women disabled people or infirm people who may be unsteady on their feet. Yes there is some subjectivity involved, and if I offer my seat and they choose to take offense and snap at me, that just says something about them, not me. For every one that gets upset, there will be many more that will appreciate it.

Trying to justify ignoring a pregnant woman who may be in considerable discomfort by bring in gender equality campaigns is probably one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen on here, and given what I have seen on here, that is saying something.

Well said that person!

 

[Steve Harris]

Trying to justify ignoring a pregnant woman who may be in considerable discomfort by bring in gender equality campaigns is probably one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen on here, and given what I have seen on here, that is saying something.

Are you referring to what i posted ?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

It's a sign of how far society has regressed that Debrett's actually considered whethe an adult should give up a seat for a child (and not v.v.)!

https://www.shortlist.com/news/tube-seat-stand-sit-child-adult-mumsnet-debretts/60106

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...r-seat-for-children-on-the-tube-a3589736.html

I remember being on a loco-hauled Holyhead - Euston some years ago which was one carriage short. Some Irish boy scouts actually asked a couple of elderly pensioners to move claiming "This carriage is reserved for the scouts"! It wasn't, their carriage was missing. But what do they teach young people about manners these days? It is all about "me, me, me".

 

[Geezertronic]

That's just ridiculous. At the end of the day, no one should feel obliged to give up their seat to anyone. Those who do, do it with the best intentions. I for one have stopped the practice after a few negative comments back from the people who I offered my seat to and would only do so again if I saw someone in obvious need

 

[westv]

In my opinion it is not about offering a seat purely because of their gender, it is about offering a seat if the person looks like they might need it more than me. That applies to pregnant women disabled people or infirm people who may be unsteady on their feet.

I'd agree 100% with that.

 

[axlecounter]

That's just ridiculous. At the end of the day, no one should feel obliged to give up their seat to anyone. Those who do, do it with the best intentions. I for one have stopped the practice after a few negative comments back from the people who I offered my seat to and would only do so again if I saw someone in obvious need

So, basically it is you who took offence in this case. You offered your seat, got a rejection (if they were rude, that's their fault only) and now feel that nobody else should have that chance from you? I don't understand this line of reasoning.

 

[Ianno87]

As an aside, would I be right in saying is no legal requirement for passengers to move for a breastfeeding woman anyway, plus some people could take offence at it, even going as far as to be citing indecent exposure?

My goodness, this forum....

Breastfeeding in public is in no way indecent exposure. And entirely possible to do discreetly with maternity tops, clothes, etc, without flashing boobs in peoples' faces.

 

[YorkshireBear]

My goodness, this forum....

Breastfeeding in public is in no way indecent exposure. And entirely possible to do discreetly with maternity tops, clothes, etc, without flashing boobs in peoples' faces.

Indeed easily possibly to do it without revealing as much breast as you see in leeds on a saturday night from the locals!

 

[Geezertronic]

So, basically it is you who took offence in this case. You offered your seat, got a rejection (if they were rude, that's their fault only) and now feel that nobody else should have that chance from you? I don't understand this line of reasoning.

I was upset but I didn't take offence. Whether you understand or not is an issue for you not me, but after not one but a few instances where it has happened, sometimes you have to ask yourself what the point is. Like I said, if someone was in obvious need then help would be given, but not generally anymore. I also know someone who (a while back) offered his seat to a pregnant woman only to be told she was not pregnant

 

[shredder1]

It is sexist because you are giving up your seat just because of the sex of the standing person. You may believe that this behaviour has no negative meaning, and you’re perfectly entitled to think so, but don’t tell me there’s no sexism involved in doing something because of the sex of someone.

In my books its just good manners, the way my generation was brought up. This is likened to calling a female a female and being called sexist, I should call them a person instead, maybe we should change the names on toilet doors from Male and Female to Persons? Sorry mate, we`ve gone from one extreme to the other here, offering to give a seat up for a pregnant "Person" or elderly or indeed person just struggling standing is hardly negative and to label it sexist is certainly negative.

 

[shredder1]

Indeed easily possibly to do it without revealing as much breast as you see in leeds on a saturday night from the locals!

Tell me more about Leeds on a saturday night