Brexit matters

[AntoniC]

Thanks for that. I'm not quite sure who these 50,000 people are actually being employed by: the article talks of most of them being "intermediaries" whatever that means.

However, whoever is going to be paying them it will be incredibly expensive, and will either be costing the taxpayer; or else damage the competitive edge of British industry when it tries to sell abroad. I suspect that a lot of small firms may simply give up on the idea of exporting, it is just being made too difficult and too expensive.

When it comes to this government, the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

The vast majority will be HMRC customs agents, Gove is on record as saying tens of thousands. In any case, it doesn't really matter if they're civil servants or working in industry, it represents a huge increase in paperwork and people to fill that paperwork in.

I work for HMRC (please don`t hate me for that please ) and before Christmas I was involved in training some of the new entrants on the new Customs Regime post Brexit.
Some of the staff involved are current HMRC staff, but the vast majority are agency staff recruited via Brook Street Agency on 6 month contracts.

The agency staff are getting paid more than me, but thats because they have to work 8 hr shifts (8am to 4pm, 4pm to 12am and 12am to 8am ) to process the imports/exports.

 

[ainsworth74]

(please don`t hate me for that please )

* Puts down pitchforks and torches *

 

[21C101]

I will be fascinated to see how this is defended as being a "good thing" or at least acceptable losses.

Typical "hard cases" reporting. Funny how buying from the US, even without a free trade deal, dosent bring any of that grief, just a customs payment if it is worth £135 or more.

Wealthy people who buy clothes from luxury European fashion houses are going to find things more difficult and bitterly resent Brexit even more than they do already. The majority who go to Primark won't care.

If the EU make things awkward at the border people will just buy elsewhere..

Which, as we have a £70 billion a year trade deficit with the EU, will result in an overall boost to UK business, as more people buy from domestic suppliers and competition from EU suppliers is impeded by non tariff regulatory barriers. Dairy farmers will be cracking open the champagne among others.

 

[nlogax]

Dairy farmers will be cracking open the champagne among others.

Is that the champagne bought from France?

 

[najaB]

Which, as we have a £70 billion a year trade deficit with the EU, will result in an overall boost to UK business, as more people buy from domestic suppliers and competition from EU suppliers is impeded by non tariff regulatory barriers.

The UK suppliers who weren't competitive enough to get the business when we were an EU member. So that means we'll be paying higher prices as a result of Brexit. Win?

 

[class ep-09]

Typical "hard cases" reporting. Funny how buying from the US, even without a free trade deal, dosent bring any of that grief, just a customs payment if it is worth £135 or more.

Wealthy people who buy clothes from luxury European fashion houses are going to find things more difficult and bitterly resent Brexit even more than they do already. The majority who go to Primark won't care.

If the EU make things awkward at the border people will just buy elsewhere..

Which, as we have a £70 billion a year trade deficit with the EU, will result in an overall boost to UK business, as more people buy from domestic suppliers and competition from EU suppliers is impeded by non tariff regulatory barriers. Dairy farmers will be cracking open the champagne among others.

As always, you have no idea what you are talking about .
EU & US have quite lot of bilateral agreements in terms of trade .
While UK was in EU , we could take advantage of these as well.

I know brexit believers are simple minded and do not read or listen the news , or government press releases beyond Daily Mail or Daily Express , but the issues are with exporting now and the checks on goods coming from the EU had been postponed till July 2021.

So real s..t is going to hit the fan in few months .

Right now there are hundreds of lorries going to EU - empty, to pick up goods ( mainly food) to avoid the red tape introduced as a result of BoJo’s s..t deal.


After July 2021 that food / goods must be inspected by UK side as well otherwise UK will be in breach of WTO rules.

Also:
Some exporters have been officially advised by DEFRA to open their EU operations to avoid “red tape”.

It means that UK government is actively telling businesses to move to EU and start paying taxes there ( and employ EU citizens ) .

 

[nlogax]

@class ep-09 Absolutely this. Brexiteers who are still defending this basket case of a situation are either obtuse or trolls.

 

[21C101]

Also:
Some exporters have been officially advised by DEFRA to open their EU operations to avoid “red tape”.

It means that UK government is actively telling businesses to move to EU and start paying taxes there ( and employ EU citizens ) .

Er no. They have been advised to basically rent out some warehouse space in the EU, bulk ship goods destined to the EU there and distribute them from said warehouse as that way only one set of customs etc for the lot not one with every individual retail sale to the EU.

Companies in the EU shipping to UK will likely do the same for exactly the same reason.

If it is only a small part of their business then they wont bother to export in/out of the EU.

In the meanwhile there will be some short term issues while everyone affected reorganises/ gets up to speed, just as there were in 1973.

However the more difficult the EU makes non tariff regulatory barriers the better it is for domestic UK businesses as there is a £70 billion a year trade deficit with the EU.

 

[class ep-09]

Er no. They have been advised to basically rent out some warehouse space in the EU, bulk ship goods destined to the EU there and distribute them from said warehouse as that way only one set of customs etc for the lot not one with every individual retail sale to the EU.

Companies in the EU shipping to UK will likely do the same for exactly the same reason.

If it is only a small part of their business then they wont bother to export in/out of the EU.

In the meanwhile there will be some short term issues while everyone affected reorganises/ gets up to speed, just as there were in 1973.

However the more difficult the EU makes non tariff regulatory barriers the better it is for domestic UK businesses as there is a £70 billion a year trade deficit with the EU.

Have you even red what you wrote ?

You , just said the UK’s businesses have been encouraged to rent space in in the EU .


And who is going to work in a such warehouse ?

Where are the local taxes are going to be paid for the employees ?

Landlords of, which country will be earning the rent from letting such a warehouse ?

EU has surplus of trade with UK because , UK’s consumers want to buy stuff they produce, that UK does not.

If I want to buy a German car, French wine , Italian shoes or Spanish tomatoes it won’t be made / grown here , no matter what .
Especially from now on.

To blame EU for UK’s choice of the “deal” is beyond me .

Is that the brexit you voted for?

Is BoJo’s brexit you wanted ?

He, at the end of the day, was the leader of Vote Leave campaign and surely , he must have known , what future UK has outside of the EU.

Or perhaps you did not know , what you voted for .

 

[SHD]

In one of your earlier posts you hinted at the fantasy that the Dutch Douane or the Italian Dogane would take a less Gallic and more relaxed approach to SPS checks - they will not, as you acknowledge in your last post. Indeed, it is quite a given that EU customs administrations will stiffly enforce these rules. There will be ample material for extremely comical Daily Express articles (and readers’ comments - a connoisseur’s delight) fuming at the intransigeance of EU countries customs officials in the months to come.

That the UK would face rigid non-tariff barriers was obviously very well known to Whitehall, and from a political point of view, it is very convenient. Blame the French - it always works.

(On the plus side, British palates will be able to enjoy mackerel and lobster!)

 

[dosxuk]

MasterCard processing fees increasing five fold for UK-EU purchases as EU rules no longer apply

Mastercard to push up fees for UK purchases from EU

The move sparks concerns that customers could see prices rise if merchants pass on the higher cost.

www.bbc.co.uk

Credit card giant Mastercard is to raise the fees it charges merchants when UK cardholders buy goods and services from the EU by fivefold.
It has sparked fears that consumer prices could rise if merchants choose to pass on those costs, especially on items not available from UK retailers.
Transactions with airlines, hotels, car rentals and holiday firms based in the EU could all be affected.

 

[bspahh]

Typical "hard cases" reporting. Funny how buying from the US, even without a free trade deal, dosent bring any of that grief, just a customs payment if it is worth £135 or more.

Except that now the UK government expects vendors in the US to register to handle VAT payments when they ship to the UK. William Shatner's online shop doesn't ship to the UK now.

William Shatner to stop selling merchandise to UK fans over costly international trading changes

Star Trek's William Shatner threatens to stop selling merchandise to UK over costly international trading changes

uk.news.yahoo.com

Wealthy people who buy clothes from luxury European fashion houses are going to find things more difficult and bitterly resent Brexit even more than they do already. The majority who go to Primark won't care.

If the EU make things awkward at the border people will just buy elsewhere..

Which, as we have a £70 billion a year trade deficit with the EU, will result in an overall boost to UK business, as more people buy from domestic suppliers and competition from EU suppliers is impeded by non tariff regulatory barriers. Dairy farmers will be cracking open the champagne among others.

Its a hassle for UK consumers if they can't buy the wine and clothes from Europe as easily as they used to, but if they then spend the money in the UK its not a problem for the UK economy, unless those consumers decide to move somewhere else.

It is a problem for the UK economy when those trade barriers also make it a hassle for EU consumers to buy stuff from us. Its also a problem where before goods move back and forth. For example a Chinese manufacturer might ship one container to Europe to be forwarded to different EU countries. Now if they ship to a port in the EU, they will have paperwork and taxes for the UK shipment. They might just not bother. Lots of manufacturing in the UK relies on being a small cog in a big machine, where you can order the starting materials just in time, and send them onto the next step. Add in paperwork to track the content of the goods, and delays crossing borders, this could become too expensive and unreliable to compete.

Then there is the problem of services, where the UK has a trade surplus with the EU, but no deal.

The problem for the UK economy is how to bring in enough money from trade with other countries to pay for the goods and materials that we have to import. Brexit is cutting that income. In the short term we can borrow to make up the difference, but that can only go on for so long before the cheques start bouncing.

 

[najaB]

Er no. They have been advised to basically rent out some warehouse space in the EU, bulk ship goods destined to the EU there and distribute them from said warehouse as that way only one set of customs etc for the lot not one with every individual retail sale to the EU.

The tax on that rent going to the UK government? No. The income tax on the wages of the warehouse staff going to HM Treasury? No.

 

[RichT54]

The tax on that rent going to the UK government? No. The income tax on the wages of the warehouse staff going to HM Treasury? No.

Also, the business owners that will be setting up these warehouses in the EU have said quite clearly that they will have to lay off staff in the UK to be able to employ EU workers in those warehouses, so yet more unemployment due to brexit.

 

[XAM2175]

So it turns out that the sunlit uplands are actually sunlit lowlands and the unicorns only accept commands in Dutch.

 

[Typhoon]

Also, the business owners that will be setting up these warehouses in the EU have said quite clearly that they will have to lay off staff in the UK to be able to employ EU workers in those warehouses, so yet more unemployment due to brexit.

They'll be able to retrain in 'cyber', along with ballet dancers - or apply to be one of the thousands of customs officers we are going to need (as in #1454). Its a good job Sunak has discovered the Magic Money Forest.

Still the fish are happy (so Rees-Mogg says).

 

[AntoniC]

At least according to Jacob Rees - Mogg "at least British fish are now happy after Brexit"
Britsh fish are happy after Brexit

Source : The Independant 014/01/21

 

[21C101]

OK brexit is a terrible idea and I will leave you to share your resentment together...

I concur with the Honourable Gentleman.

 

[najaB]

More winning....

Brexit parcel price shock: 'I had to pay £30 for a gift'

It's not just shoppers facing surprise costs when EU parcels arrive, but what is behind the charges?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[GusB]

More winning....

Brexit parcel price shock: 'I had to pay £30 for a gift'

It's not just shoppers facing surprise costs when EU parcels arrive, but what is behind the charges?

www.bbc.co.uk

"We're not stupid - we know what we voted for!"

While those pushing the Brexit agenda were more than happy to wax lyrical about the big issues such as immigration, sovereignty and taking back control, they omitted to mention that it'll be the little, everyday things that have the biggest effect on our lives.

That single market wasn't so bad after all, eh?

 

[21C101]

"We're not stupid - we know what we voted for!"

While those pushing the Brexit agenda were more than happy to wax lyrical about the big issues such as immigration, sovereignty and taking back control, they omitted to mention that it'll be the little, everyday things that have the biggest effect on our lives.

That single market wasn't so bad after all, eh?

So you have to pay a customs charge, same as when you order stuff from Japan or the USA?

Hardly a surprise, given we are now in a separate customs area now, and more income for the treasury.

As most things are imported bulk and sold at retail level by UK companies its not going to affect the majority much at at all. However the wealthy (mostly) who like to buy niche items direct from the EU get to pay extra tax for the privilege.

Indeed, the wealthy having to pay an "import tax" to buy things from the EU instead of buying domestically will I suspect play rather well in "red wall" constituencies.

 

[Beemax]

This 'sovereignty' thing has always baffled me. Do I go out of the house singing "hey, what a wonderful day, I've got my sovereignty back now"?

No, because I can't even go out of the house now without good reason.

 

[21C101]

This 'sovereignty' thing has always baffled me. Do I go out of the house singing "hey, what a wonderful day, I've got my sovereignty back now"?

No, because I can't even go out of the house now without good reason.

At the moment sovereignty is illustrated starkly by the UK (including Northern Ireland) having a mass vaccine programme using the Oxford Vaccine under way and the Republic Of Ireland being refused permission by their EU overlords to buy it.

 

[raetiamann]

As one who worked in International Trade for many years prior to retirement, all the things that are beginning to unfold now we're entirely predictable. It creates more difficulties and costs for both importers and exporters and yes much of that work will be done by companies rather than individuals, it is the consumer who will pick up the tab.

I'm still waiting to hear what benefits Brexit offers us.

 

[najaB]

So you have to pay a customs charge, same as when you order stuff from Japan or the USA?

Given that the average person (and small business) is much more likely to buy goods from EU vendors than from those in the USA or Japan (lower shipping costs) this is going to hit a lot of people.

Hardly a surprise, given we are now in a separate customs area now, and more income for the treasury.

More in the treasury = less in people's pockets. More Brexit winning.

 

[RT4038]

This 'sovereignty' thing has always baffled me. Do I go out of the house singing "hey, what a wonderful day, I've got my sovereignty back now"?

No, because I can't even go out of the house now without good reason.

Yes, this 'sovereignty' is a strange thing.

The closest I would liken the situation is leaving a long term partner, not for any particular reason, just a feeling that you are fed up with them. Maybe years of dancing to their tune, being coerced into doing things that you didn't really want to do. None of them individually onerous. In exchange you got a particular lifestyle, some of which you will lose forever on departure.
On leaving you know that you are going to be immediately worse off, but you know you'll cope, and who knows, finances might get as good as before, or even surpassed. But life is not all about finance.

Of course some people would stay together for financial reasons, and just paper over the underlying unhappiness. others would suppress their character and do as their partner bid or try to change their partner's behaviour. Many will have friends who will not understand what the problem is.

Never an easy decision, as we all well know.

More in the treasury = less in people's pockets. More Brexit winning.

I think you are scraping the barrel - More in the treasury from this source could mean more public services, or less tax required from other sources.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Indeed, the wealthy having to pay an "import tax" to buy things from the EU instead of buying domestically will I suspect play rather well in "red wall" constituencies.

The idea that only the wealthy buy things from the EU is hilariously naïve and downright false. This is going to affect the everyday person and you (and other Brexiters) know it.

 

[najaB]

I think you are scraping the barrel - More in the treasury from this source could mean more public services, or less tax required from other sources.

It's not scaping the barrel. There will be more in the treasury because more tax is being paid. If you think that the retailers will pay it rather than passing it on to the consumer, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[RT4038]

It's not scaping the barrel. There will be more in the treasury because more tax is being paid. If you think that the retailers will pay it rather than passing it on to the consumer, I've got a bridge to sell you.

So if more tax is being paid by consumers to the treasury by that source, then less tax will be required from the same consumers by other sources. All things being equal, it should be neutral overall.

 

[Beemax]

At the moment sovereignty is illustrated starkly by the UK (including Northern Ireland) having a mass vaccine programme using the Oxford Vaccine under way and the Republic Of Ireland being refused permission by their EU overlords to buy it.

Ireland has the option of doing what Hungary are doing, ordering large quantities of the Russian 'Sputnik' vaccine. Not sure if the Irish would be particularly comfortable with that though. I agree that the UK made the right decision to go its own way on vaccine (which we did while we were still under EU rules) but smaller Member States benefit more from the purchasing power of the EU.