Brian Rose, London Mayor Candidate, and COVID.

[londonteacher]

A candidate's position on lockdown is irrelevant. Lockdowns are decided by the national government, not a city mayor. Look at Manchester to see that in action!

 

[kristiang85]

A candidate's position on lockdown is irrelevant. Lockdowns are decided by the national government, not a city mayor. Look at Manchester to see that in action!

Yes, but when you have a mayor actively promoting lockdowns, it doesn't give businesses on their patch much confidence (as well as individuals' mental health). There is no doubt that Khan's rhetoric on this has harmed London.

 

[londonteacher]

Yes, but when you have a mayor actively promoting lockdowns, it doesn't give businesses on their patch much confidence (as well as individuals' mental health). There is no doubt that Khan's rhetoric on this has harmed London.

I'm not saying I disagree. But, surely the Mayor has to actively promote some parts of government policy? I'm sure the previous Mayors (Livingstone and Johnson) had to at some point and I'm sure future Mayors will have to also. I agree though businesses probably are not happy about someone promoting lockdown but I'm not sure the only other likely candidate who is from the party of the PM would also do well for the same reason.

 

[DB]

I'm not saying I disagree. But, surely the Mayor has to actively promote some parts of government policy? I'm sure the previous Mayors (Livingstone and Johnson) had to at some point and I'm sure future Mayors will have to also. I agree though businesses probably are not happy about someone promoting lockdown but I'm not sure the only other likely candidate who is from the party of the PM would also do well for the same reason.

He went beyond promoting government policy - he was constantly calling for more restrictions - then when the government imposed more he didn't like that either!

 

[bramling]

I can't really take any of them seriously but given I don't get a say it's not really an issue. Are we going to look back and think how on earth did Londoners vote for Boris as their mayor on two separate occasions?

Khan really made me laugh when he said that Londoners didn't want Brexit but failed to notice that more people in London voted for Brexit (1.5million) than voted for him (1.3 million)!

When local elections actually take place later this year then a candidate's position on lockdown is definitely going to be one of the key considerations for me.

When we look back at the history of which mayors have been elected, it doesn’t make for happy reading.

Livingstone is now largely discredited as having screws loose and in all likelihood anti-Semite, even if in policy terms he’s actually probably been the most competent in delivering what he pledged (approve of his agenda or otherwise). Boris was simply there to make people laugh, and everyone was relieved when after 8 years he hadn’t been a total disaster. And as for the current one, there’s something deeply unpleasant about his tactics, and in terms of delivery it’s hard to think of anything he’s actually successfully achieved.

Given what a dubious history this post seems to have amassed, one can make a serious case to say it’s high time the plug was pulled on it, especially when it is now setting London against the rest of the country in a rather unpleasant way. It’s become a mouthpiece for odious political agendas rather than a serious political post.

 

[brad465]

Yes I think it’s essentially inevitable that any inquiry will say lockdown should have happened sooner.

I’m not sure this necessarily means it’s an inevitability though, just that if you’re going to do it then it’s pointless dithering and delaying as it will then just make it politically harder to escape from, as we have found.

100% agree the acceptability of lockdowns needs to be challenged. I’m not sure it’s going to happen though - places like Facebook are an utterly depressing read, even now there’s plenty of people who seem to feel more restrictions are vital.

Until the link between lockdown and furlough/WFH is destroyed I don’t think we’re ever going to make any progress on this. Even if there’s a bloodbath of job losses people will just say furlough should have been extended even further.

One possible sign of hope was Lib Dem MP Wera Hobhouse recently confessing she thought twice about civil liberties on restrictions as a result of seeing the police behaviour on Clapham Common, having been a supporter of restrictions before that incident. Even if she was one of only a few convinced by that incident, it shows people can be convinced still.

When we look back at the history of which mayors have been elected, it doesn’t make for happy reading.

Livingstone is now largely discredited as having screws loose and in all likelihood anti-Semite, even if in policy terms he’s actually probably been the most competent in delivering what he pledged (approve if it his agenda or otherwise). Boris was simply there to make people laugh, and everyone was relieved when after 8 years he hadn’t been a total disaster. And as for the current one, there’s something deeply unpleasant about his tactics, and in terms of delivery it’s hard to think of anything he’s actually successfully achieved.

Given what a dubious history this post seems to have amassed, one can make a serious case to say it’s high time the plug was pulled on it, especially when it is now setting London against the rest of the country in a rather unpleasant way. It’s become a mouthpiece for odious political agendas rather than a serious political post.

I agree there are issues with the position, but do also think there's an issue of getting proper funding and approval for action when the incumbent Mayor is of a different political party to the national Government. Overall all these mayoral positions and devolved administrations are half-baked efforts to cover all the problems with our elite out of touch Westminster group and system. A better alternative to mayors would be to have regional citizens' assemblies where actions and funding for local initiatives are controlled far more by the people living in those areas, not elite politicians toeing a political party line.

 

[matt_world2004]

Brian rose is a con artist who is running for mayor as his latest grift.

 

[johnnychips]

Brian rose is a con artist who is running for mayor as his latest grift.

Why do you think that? I’m not being sarcastic or anything at all to you. (And having read this thread I probably wouldn’t vote for him if I lived in London).

 

[bramling]

One possible sign of hope was Lib Dem MP Wera Hobhouse recently confessing she thought twice about civil liberties on restrictions as a result of seeing the police behaviour on Clapham Common, having been a supporter of restrictions before that incident. Even if she was one of only a few convinced by that incident, it shows people can be convinced still.


I agree there are issues with the position, but do also think there's an issue of getting proper funding and approval for action when the incumbent Mayor is of a different political party to the national Government. Overall all these mayoral positions and devolved administrations are half-baked efforts to cover all the problems with our elite out of touch Westminster group and system. A better alternative to mayors would be to have regional citizens' assemblies where actions and funding for local initiatives are controlled far more by the people living in those areas, not elite politicians toeing a political party line.

Yes agreed. The real problem is we’ve had many years of weak politicians who have failed to glue the whole country together. This was probably difficult to avoid in the case of Scotland as there’s a more ideological angle to Scottish independence, however there’s no excuse for England now being fragmented. Hell we seriously have the prospect of an “outsider charge” for driving into London.

London is tied to the south-east, yet Khan has actively tried to enclave London. It’s funny that Khan claims London is outward-looking, yet seems to do everything possible to build a metaphorical wall between London and the rest of the country.

As a country we need to stop electing maverick politicians, it’s partly why we’re in such a mess with Covid.

 

[matt_world2004]

Why do you think that? I’m not being sarcastic or anything at all to you. (And having read this thread I probably wouldn’t vote for him if I lived in London).

Basically he is using his mayoral campaign to crowdfund donations that he will use for his personal expenses and to raise his profile so people will pay for his $3000 "business accelerator" course leadership courses this YouTube video will explain it in more detail.

 

[sheff1]

Either a self-opinionated and vain character who thinks that he has the answers for everything and would run London the way he wants, with no regard to the interests of others

Sounds like just the sort of person Londoners would vote in as Mayor, judging by previous post holders.

 

[nedchester]

A candidate's position on lockdown is irrelevant. Lockdowns are decided by the national government, not a city mayor. Look at Manchester to see that in action!

Yes but the hard of thinking would think that Rose would actually be able to change policy.

Additionally, voting for someone purely on their lockdown views would be stupid in the extreme especially as they would be mayor long after Covid was finished and may want to introduce promote some quite distasteful policies.

 

[ScottGallagher]

The problem with London is that it's a bureaucratic mess, 32 boroughs and God knows how many quangos within them. The management of most of these boroughs leaves a hell of a lot to be desired.

That's before you get to Khan and co (or whoever is elected) at City Hall and TFL. I shudder to think how much money is wasted on a daily basis with all of it.

 

[kristiang85]

That's before you get to Khan and co (or whoever is elected) at City Hall and TFL. I shudder to think how much money is wasted on a daily basis with all of it.

Indeed. Personally, as I've said before, I'd get rid of the Mayor of London as a post.

 

[bramling]

Indeed. Personally, as I've said before, I'd get rid of the Mayor of London as a post.

I wonder if this is something Boris might actually have the guts to go for, if he’s still in post long enough.

Khan is a PITA, and London is essentially a lost cause to the Conservatives now, the few constituencies which vote Conservative would likely not shed too many tears at losing what’s likely to be a fairly permanently Labour mayor.

So what’s there to lose by doing it? The only thing which might look bad is that Boris was himself holder of the post which would look odd, but again this is only a London issue.

Wishful thinking on my part perhaps.

 

[johnnychips]

Apologies for my non-London ignorance but why do you think Khan is running so far ahead in the polls then? I can see why Boris is doing well in opinion polls (good vaccination, Lab just agreeing with everything he does anyway) so you would have thought the London Mayor Conservative candidate would have a good shot.

 

[brad465]

I wonder if this is something Boris might actually have the guts to go for, if he’s still in post long enough.

Khan is a PITA, and London is essentially a lost cause to the Conservatives now, the few constituencies which vote Conservative would likely not shed too many tears at losing what’s likely to be a fairly permanently Labour mayor.

So what’s there to lose by doing it? The only thing which might look bad is that Boris was himself holder of the post which would look odd, but again this is only a London issue.

Wishful thinking on my part perhaps.

The policing bill does include something about expanding FPTP voting to mayoral elections (although this wouldn't stop Khan getting in), but that won't come in before May, which suggests at this stage they're not getting rid of it. I imagine it would look somewhat hypocritical for Johnson to remove the post as he's someone who once held it; a successor though may have better fortunes.

Apologies for my non-London ignorance but why do you think Khan is running so far ahead in the polls then? I can see why Boris is doing well in opinion polls (good vaccination, Lab just agreeing with everything he does anyway) so you would have thought the London Mayor Conservative candidate would have a good shot.

I've seen reports that London's remain base and impacts being felt by Brexit are making London less Tory, given how much they're hooked on Brexit policy. I imagine though that's not the only reason, with issues like poverty being rife also problematic.

 

[bramling]

Apologies for my non-London ignorance but why do you think Khan is running so far ahead in the polls then? I can see why Boris is doing well in opinion polls (good vaccination, Lab just agreeing with everything he does anyway) so you would have thought the London Mayor Conservative candidate would have a good shot.

Goodness knows to be honest, there may not be a rational reason to find.

The opposition candidates are awful, Shaun Bailey for one is horrific. That may be part of the story.

For some reason London now seems to want to stick its finger up at the rest of Britain, and I’ve little idea why that is.

Perhaps London just knows no different, the inward-looking attitude from the likes of Khan would certainly encourage this.

 

[londonteacher]

Goodness knows to be honest, there may not be a rational reason to find.

The opposition candidates are awful, Shaun Bailey for one is horrific. That may be part of the story.

For some reason London now seems to want to stick its finger up at the rest of Britain, and I’ve little idea why that is.

Perhaps London just knows no different, the inward-looking attitude from the likes of Khan would certainly encourage this.

Exactly that. The opposition candidates are awful. The Conservative Party should have put someone high profile forwards instead of someone highly devisive.

 

[matt_world2004]

Apologies for my non-London ignorance but why do you think Khan is running so far ahead in the polls then? I can see why Boris is doing well in opinion polls (good vaccination, Lab just agreeing with everything he does anyway) so you would have thought the London Mayor Conservative candidate would have a good shot.

Shaun bailey wants every London employee to have compulsory drug tests . Regularly refers to Watford as "Outer London" calls Londoners celebrating festivals like Diwali as being divisive.

He has some interesting attitudes about women too particularly on abortion and child birth

 

[ScottGallagher]

Shaun bailey wants every London employee to have compulsory drug tests . Regularly refers to Watford as "Outer London" calls Londoners celebrating festivals like Diwali as being divisive.

He has some interesting attitudes about women too particularly on abortion and child birth

It's almost like the Tories don't want to win the Mayoralty

I wonder if this is something Boris might actually have the guts to go for, if he’s still in post long enough.

Khan is a PITA, and London is essentially a lost cause to the Conservatives now, the few constituencies which vote Conservative would likely not shed too many tears at losing what’s likely to be a fairly permanently Labour mayor.

So what’s there to lose by doing it? The only thing which might look bad is that Boris was himself holder of the post which would look odd, but again this is only a London issue.

Wishful thinking on my part perhaps.

It would echo what Thatcher did to the GLC. Else Boris is happy for Khan to own the rise in knife crime and mounting TFL debts, hence the poor Tory candidate.

I agree get rid of the whole thing, life would still go on without it.

 

[matt_world2004]

Since the post of London mayor was introduced with a referendum which was passed i don't see how it would be morally right to get rid of the position. Particularly when other areas that are less populous also have devolved governments

 

[bramling]

Since the post of London mayor was introduced with a referendum which was passed i don't see how it would be morally right to get rid of the position. Particularly when other areas that are less populous also have devolved governments

I’m not sure that’s a problem, as the referendum was Blair’s policy. So if the Conservatives were to ditch the mayor they wouldn’t be backtracking on anything they had pledged in a manifesto. And, as I said elsewhere, the only people to be peeved are likely to be London Labour voters, who are already largely a lost cause, the rest of the country wouldn’t give a stuff - indeed I suspect the Home Counties would welcome it, especially if it saw the back of Khan.

I do agree with the poster who suggested the Conservatives might be happy for Khan to retain ownership of the nasty stuff like knife crime and the mess which is TFL, though.

 

[43096]

Khan is a PITA, and London is essentially a lost cause to the Conservatives now, the few constituencies which vote Conservative would likely not shed too many tears at losing what’s likely to be a fairly permanently Labour mayor.

Why is it a "lost cause"? It's not that long since Boris was mayor.

 

[Domh245]

Why is it a "lost cause"? It's not that long since Boris was mayor.

Two points to consider here: Firstly I think it's safe to say Boris was elected for being Boris, rather than being the tory candidate, and the last time that London voted him in was 2012, getting on for a decade ago now

Secondly, the tory party of ~2010 when Boris was voted in, and the tory party of now are significantly different beasts, particularly when it comes to a certain single issue on which London differed to the rest of the country! Now that said issue is ""done"" there's every chance of them going back towards a manifesto that's more in line with what London wants, but it's far from guaranteed (especially if they continue to chase former-red wall seats)

 

[317 forever]

I thought he'd decided not to, but he may have changed his mind again.

I've just remembered that Piers Corbyn said he'd be standing too, which will no doubt split the anti-lockdown vote still further.

At the moment, I think I'd probably vote for Kurten. I disagree with a lot of his other 'social conversative' positions, but he's been a stalwart opposing lockdown, and like Corbyn has often been on the front-line in opposition.

Not only Piers Corbyn, but Piers Morgan now has some more time on his hands in case he decides to stand.

 

[bramling]

Two points to consider here: Firstly I think it's safe to say Boris was elected for being Boris, rather than being the tory candidate, and the last time that London voted him in was 2012, getting on for a decade ago now

Secondly, the tory party of ~2010 when Boris was voted in, and the tory party of now are significantly different beasts, particularly when it comes to a certain single issue on which London differed to the rest of the country! Now that said issue is ""done"" there's every chance of them going back towards a manifesto that's more in line with what London wants, but it's far from guaranteed (especially if they continue to chase former-red wall seats)

Agree with all the above. I also think London itself has got very polarised since the 1990s. A lot of people have moved out to the home counties, and there seems to be an increasing polarisation between extremely wealthy on one hand, and deprived on the other, with little in between.

 

[southern442]

I am ~500m into Surrey from the Greater London border, so I won't get a say, however Brian Rose is a lunatic. I know some people on here have very valid reasons for being anti-lockdown, but Rose goes one step further and actively spreads misinformation and conspiracies. Some politicians don't seem to realise you CAN do one without the other!

Sadiq Khan has not been the best of mayors for sure, however certain policies he has enacted have actually made a noticeable difference in people's lives - for example, the hopper fare he introduced made bus travel infinitely more attractive to me, and whilst one policy shouldn't be an election winner by itself, not many other politicians have made such a direct, visible impact on people's lives. The other reason why I think he is polling so well is again because all the other candidates, perhaps bar Stewart and Berry (although the former has dropped out), are absolute nutjobs. It will take you 30 seconds of googling to find something Shaun Bailey has said that would p*ss off half of London.

 

[matt_world2004]

Mayor of London has very little control over lockdown rules except on tfl services.

 

[A Challenge]

Mayor of London has very little control over lockdown rules except on tfl services.

Apart from calling for the tier to be raised until the government gave in and then complaining about it afterwards.