Britain in the EU

[MidnightFlyer]

Regardless of what you think on AV, I know many would rather have seen us vote on EU membership last Thursday.

When Mr Heath signed us up to it, it sold itself on improving trade and dealings between member states, yet as its power has increased, it has taken on many more schemes, none of which we voted for at the time.

So, questions:

1) Should Britain have a referendum on EU membership?
2) What would be the outcome should we have one?
3) Should we be in the EU?

No talk on cost of setting up etc, thanks.

 

[Zoe]

none of which we voted for at the time.

You did vote for it indirectly: You elected a government to make decisions on this. The international policy of a country isn't something that is usually decided by referendum.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You did vote for it indirectly: You elected a government to make decisions on this. The international policy of a country isn't something that is usually decided by referendum.

We were given the vote on membership, based on what we knew then. It has changed dramatically since then, I know it angers many just to what extent. Maybe if we had the vote knowing what we know now, the feelings of the public over what has happened since would be realised.

 

[Donny Dave]

So, questions:

1) Should Britain have a referendum on EU membership?
2) What would be the outcome should we have one?
3) Should we be in the EU?

1. Yes
2. Leave ASAP
3. No

All the EU is now is a bloated and corrupt place for people to line their own pockets without fearing the law while churning out some useless (and often bizarre) legislation that benefits no one apart from lawyers ....

 

[Zoe]

We were given the vote on membership, based on what we knew then. It has changed dramatically since then, I know it angers many just to what extent. Maybe if we had the vote knowing what we know now, the feelings of the public over what has happened since would be realised.

Actually the Tories didn't not hold a referendum on EU memebership. Labour later held one but only after the UK had already joined.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

1) A referendum isn't really suitable for international politics where the public is not always fully informed. The proper way to do it is vote for UKIP, but as they haven't had many votes, evidently many people want to stay in the EU.
2) Stay in.
3) Yes. The benefits it gives us for little cost are massive.

 

[Pumbaa]

^ What Ralph said. The barriers to trade with Europe that membership removes are enormous. We are simply too inefficient to be able to trade if they were re-instated.

 

[thefab444]

1) Should Britain have a referendum on EU membership?

No.

2) What would be the outcome should we have one?

Leave.

3) Should we be in the EU?.

Yes.

 

[WestCoast]

1) Should Britain have a referendum on EU membership?
2) What would be the outcome should we have one?
3) Should we be in the EU?

I believe a lot of people don't have any strong feeling on the issue, the people who do will vote in the elections to European Parliament and this demonstrates a feeling.

To answer your questions:

1) No, I don't feel it is necessary.

2) A lot depends on yes/no campaigns and the political situation at the time (as was the case for the AV referendum). Although, I think the overall result would be to stay in.

3) Yes, it has negatives but it does have many positives. I hate the brainwashing that the EU is all evil and draining our economy, much of it is NOT true! I appreciate the easier access between countries, the trading advantages and all the subsidies that the UK receives from grants (agriculture benefits massively from these subsidies e.g set-aside). Our farming and manufacturing sectors would suffer without the EU. Many of our facilities (many in difficult provincial regions) have been supported by EU funding.

Britain is no superpower on the world stage and Europe is stronger together! Especially against the emerging powerhouses of China and India

I hear a lot of people mentioning that the EU imposed prisoners voting rights on the UK, it's not, it's the European Court of Human Rights which is a very different thing entirely.

 

[Ferret]

^ What Ralph said. The barriers to trade with Europe that membership removes are enormous. We are simply too inefficient to be able to trade if they were re-instated.

I'm not overly keen on the idea of leaving the EU, but I have to ask you Pumbaa whether you can back up this assertion you've made with hard evidence.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm not a big fan of the EU to be honest but I think even with the downsides we're better off in it than we are out of it. Personally I just wish we could remain within the common market and the various economic factors of the EU and remain out of any of the political elements of the EU.

As to the questions:

1) No unless the EU decided to do something drastic like go for a formal federation of European states.
2) I'm not sure I suspect leave.
3) Yes the benefits for the time being outweigh the costs.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I'm not a big fan of the EU to be honest but I think even with the downsides we're better off in it than we are out of it. Personally I just wish we could remain within the common market and the various economic factors of the EU and remain out of any of the political elements of the EU.

You can't have your cake and eat it...

 

[richa2002]

You can't have your cake and eat it...

Switzerland and Norway do...

 

[Zoe]

Switzerland and Norway do...

But they still implement EU Directives.

 

[Lampshade]

The EEC was a good thing, a common market with a free trade agreement. However, surrendering decision making responsibilities to Brussels and open borders were not what the people wanted, which ever way you look at it.

If we need to trade, then by all means trade, we trade perfectly well with China, India, Australia, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Israel, but nations should remain sovereign.

 

[WestCoast]

Switzerland and Norway do...

The UK could go down that route, but the UK isn't comparable (in terms of economic sectors) to those countries. Have you seen the cost of living in Norway?

The EEC was a good thing, a common market with a free trade agreement. However, surrendering decision making responsibilities to Brussels and open borders were not what the people wanted, which ever way you look at it..

Well, as long as the sovereignty isn't compromised I don't see the issue, Brussels isn't going to become a power hub unless it's members let it. Open borders is more complex: while the UK didn't want it, most other members (including non-members e.g Switzerland) did want it with the Schengen Agreement. We are never going to be forced into it, and the UK's over-generous welfare arrangements are the main reason why asylum seekers queue at Calais (but that is a different argument!)

 

[Zoe]

nations should remain sovereign.

Nations do change over time though, Wessex hasn't be sovereign in its own right for over a thousand years.

 

[Lampshade]

Nations do change over time though, Wessex hasn't be sovereign in its own right for over a thousand years.

Invasion and conquest is entirely different to a federal Europe which is the direction we're heading in.

 

[Zoe]

Invasion and conquest is entirely different to a federal Europe which is the direction we're heading in.

The thirteen colonies defeated the British and then formed the United States, one colony didn't conquer the other twelve.

 

[OxtedL]

Federal Europe? Not going to happen in our lifetimes. Just won't. Would need too much political support.
We won't get much closer than we are now.

I very much doubt we will have a referendum on EU membership, mainly because if we did, then we would have to leave the EU. Which would be stupid.

The main group of people who would vote would be far right wing and some tory voters, who might care a bit. Pro Europeans are generally that little bit more ambivalent. Similar effect to the recent referendum (although punishing the Lib Dems had a lot to do with it). And similar to pretty much any referendum. And many elections (for instance left wing voters are less likely to turn out in many areas).

Leaving the EU would severely damage the UK in the process, and politicians tend to avoid things like that, even the tories. So until UKIP get in (god forbid)...

 

[SS4]

1) Should Britain have a referendum on EU membership?

No

2) What would be the outcome should we have one?

Leave the EU

3) Should we be in the EU?

Yes

1) I don't think there should be a referendum until our news media becomes fair and I am defining fair as stating all the facts and nothing but the facts.

2) A google search shows far more anti EU than pro EU and, as we saw with AV, people are likely to be hoodwinked into believing whatever the Daily Mail et al tell them.

3) Mainly on trade grounds, why not take advantage of lower tariffs?

 

[Zoe]

Federal Europe? Not going to happen in our lifetimes. Just won't. Would need too much political support.
We won't get much closer than we are now.

I wouldn't be so sure, a lot can change in fifty years.

 

[SS4]

I wouldn't be so sure, a lot can change in fifty years.

It is my opinion that the EU is more likely to implode because of nationalist gains elsewhere in Europe. Admittedly these are in national governments but should the same happen in the EU elections and an implosion could come to pass

 

[Ferret]

The real elephant in the room is the Euro. I'd not be at all surprised if that went Pete Tong this year or next year. If it collapsed, who knows what the next moves would be....

 

[Yew]

The real elephant in the room is the Euro. I'd not be at all surprised if that went Pete Tong this year or next year. If it collapsed, who knows what the next moves would be....

Good, I still have some francs i need to spend

 

[Ferret]

I doubt the larger economies like France would be bailing out of the Euro at first, but I'd not be surprised if the likes of Greece jacked it in. Whether that then leads to further departures rendering the whole thing pointless remains to be seen.

 

[Zoe]

The EU is an Ever Closer Union. Dropping the Euro would be a backward step.

 

[thefab444]

I think the EU would be a lot more popular and acceptable to many Britons if it hadn't expanded so rapidly, or if there were two European zones, the developed western zone with open internal borders and a common currency, and a developing eastern zone merely getting the trade benefits.

 

[Ferret]

The EU is an Ever Closer Union. Dropping the Euro would be a backward step.

It may become a necessity for some countries to drop the Euro, for fear of bringing the whole pack of cards collapsing down. That would be the very definition of a backward step I can tell you!

 

[OxtedL]

It may become a necessity for some countries to drop the Euro, for fear of bringing the whole pack of cards collapsing down. That would be the very definition of a backward step I can tell you!

It appears Gordon Brown may have done something right.

I think the Euro will continue to have a use as long as Germany, France and Spain continue to use it. That probably includes Portugal and Belgium.

Can you imagine an "Irish Dollar"? I doubt they would opt/be allowed to opt for GB£.