BTP assistance for incidents: So what do we think of this?

[dcsprior]

Emergency services do not save people based on the life expectancy of a human so that argument is pretty void.

Indeed they don't (and shouldn't). What I meant was that some people were saying that blue lights should only be used to save life, and that it can be argued that delays do result in just as much loss of life (not loss of lives) as an accident.

I wish there were stricter rules on blue light use. I've noticed the local cops often use them to jump traffic waiting at traffic lights, then when ahead of the line lights off and normal speed resumes.

Could this be driver training? I'm guessing that the drivers need to practise the challenging bits of blue-light driving, such as overtaking at lights, more than driving along a straight clear road - so in much the same way as new pilots will fly short routes to get the maximum number of take-offs and landings, a driver at a certain stage of their training may only need to practice blue-light driving at lights/roundabouts/etc.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Not a fan. Blue light drives are not safe. Can you imagine trying to explain to someone that the reason their son/daughter/wife/husband etc was killed when crossing the road was to go and fix a train? As mentioned above, it also devalues the effect of lights and sirens.

I would hope the blue lights are not driven like that for fixing a train.... a toned down blue lights drive i imagine. I also imagine running red lights would be much rarer.

 

[the sniper]

I wish there were stricter rules on blue light use. I've noticed the local cops often use them to jump traffic waiting at traffic lights, then when ahead of the line lights off and normal speed resumes.

Big accusation, particularly if you see it 'often'. Personally I never saw improper use of blues and twos once during my time in, as there was too much at stake.

There are reasons why what you've described can happen though, call being downgraded while on route or units detached from the incident as further assistance isn't required. I've had one job where we passed a load of stationary traffic with lights and sirens, only for the job to be downgraded from immediate once we got around them. It was obvious what it'd look like to everyone we overtook, as people usually just assume the worst through their own bias or ignorance.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I would hope the blue lights are not driven like that for fixing a train.... a toned down blue lights drive i imagine. I also imagine running red lights would be much rarer.

Either you run on lights or you don't. "Toned down" drives are dangerous.


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[ralphchadkirk]

I don't remember anyone criticising the LU ERU for having this system brought in, why shouldn't NR do it as well?

Like I said earlier, LUL have specific challenges that occasionally do require their engineers to run on lights. Partly because of how their trains are built, specialist knowledge is needed quickly in how to extract people from underneath them - this isn't the same for Network Rail.


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[Stigy]

As has been said, they'll only use blues & twos responding to an immediate grade call. In fairness most calls these units attend warrant an immediate response such as trespass incidents and 'one unders'. The idea is to have a MOM able to attend an incident at the same time as BTP as both would need to attend anyway so why not cut out the middle man, so to speak? I wouldn't imagine a call for track defects etc would come in to it, as that isn't the idea behind this system.

 

[Bungle73]

AI wouldn't imagine a call for track defects etc would come in to it, as that isn't the idea behind this system.

Emergency Intervention Unit
The Emergency Intervention Unit (EIU),
our joint initiative with British Transport
Police to respond to incidents quickly and
effectively within the London and main
suburban areas, is continuing to deliver
substantial benefits in reducing the impact
of major disruption.
Since its launch in March, the EIU
has
responded to a total of 235 incidents on the
network, with 121 of these being assessed

as requiring a response under blue light
conditions. The average response time
for the EIU is just 17 minutes, and this is
measured from the moment the team are
advised, to them arriving at the incident.
The incidents being dealt with by the EIU
range from vehicle bridge strikes, trespass
and vandalism, anti-social behaviour as
well as serious infrastructure failures with
the potential to cause disruption to the
network.

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/iyrnewslettersummer26.6.13v3.pdf

 

[Morden Via CHX]

Big accusation, particularly if you see it 'often'. Personally I never saw improper use of blues and twos once during my time in, as there was too much at stake.

Must admit I've seen it happen too and just considered it as part of life. Didn't realise it was a serious rule breach. Bit of a daft thing to do if it puts your job at stake.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Must admit I've seen it happen too and just considered it as part of life. Didn't realise it was a serious rule breach. Bit of a daft thing to do if it puts your job at stake.

More often than not it's because a resource has been assigned to a job and then cancelled a short time later.

 

[Stigy]

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/iyrnewslettersummer26.6.13v3.pdf

That being one of their uses, I can only assume it'll be for incidents of disruption that both BTP and NWR both usually attend as blue light use is only for immediate calls and isn't used lightly. There's only ever need for police at disruption etc if there's a fatality or similar, or the possibility of public disorder. Not just issues that could affect the train service. They rarely attend bridge strikes these days either, as local forces seem to deal as the road falls on their jurisdiction.

 

[the sniper]

Must admit I've seen it happen too and just considered it as part of life. Didn't realise it was a serious rule breach. Bit of a daft thing to do if it puts your job at stake.

As myself and ralphchadkirk have said, it can easily happen for perfectly valid reasons. As such, no one would be putting their job at stake.