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Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus Discussion

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cnjb8

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Hello
Probably a long shot but I was wondering if anyone could help me identify the registration plates of these Bus Eireann (BE) vehicles, I have tried Bus Lists on the Web to no avail. I have listed the fleetnumber and current depot.
DVS109 - Thurles
SI103 - Ballina
SI105 - Thurles
SI106 - Thurles
SI110 - Ballina
VR110 - Longford
VR113 - Longford
VR118 - Longford

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you :)
 
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hst43102

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Hello
Probably a long shot but I was wondering if anyone could help me identify the registration plates of these BE vehicles, I have tried Bus Lists on the Web to no avail. I have listed the fleetnumber and current depot.
DVS109 - Thurles
SI103 - Ballina
SI105 - Thurles
SI106 - Thurles
SI110 - Ballina
VR110 - Longford
VR113 - Longford
VR118 - Longford

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you :)

I've done some searching around on Flickr. Please note I have next to no knowledge of the Bus Éireann (BE) fleet so this is not 100% accurate by any means!

DVS109 - 01G3405
SI103 - 01D91723
SI105 - 02D81210
SI106 - 02D81211
SI110 - 01D93908
VR110 - 01D93493
VR113 - 01D93912
VR118 - 01D94189

Hope this helps :)
 
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cnjb8

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I've done some searching around on Flickr. Please note I have next to no knowledge of the Bus Éireann (BE) fleet so this is not 100% accurate by any means!

DVS109 - 01G3405
SI103 - 01D91723
SI105 - 02D81210
SI106 - 02D81211
SI110 - 01D93908
VR110 - 01D93493
VR113 - 01D93912
VR118 - 01D94189

Hope this helps :)
Thank you so much :D

I have been trying to make a fleet list for them but I was missing those reg plates
 

GusB

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Does this section of the forum also cover buses outside the UK?
I have wondered whether "foreign" buses should be discussed here, or in the International Transport section, but we have discussed Channel Islands buses here, and there is a thread concerning the Isle of Man. Neither of these are part of the UK, so I see no reason why Irish operations shouldn't be discussed here.
 

johncrossley

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I have wondered whether "foreign" buses should be discussed here, or in the International Transport section, but we have discussed Channel Islands buses here, and there is a thread concerning the Isle of Man. Neither of these are part of the UK, so I see no reason why Irish operations shouldn't be discussed here.

Ah OK, that makes sense. However, all the above are in the British Isles. Are we drawing the line there? What about buses in the rest of the world?
 

GusB

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Let's just keep this thread for discussing Bus Éireann in the meantime!
 

cnjb8

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Still doesn't seem to be working, probably something to do with me.
I'll just post it on here
I was a bit daft and put the list on with a filter for certain depots, here is the full actual list
 

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berneyarms

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Dublin Buses have their fleet ordered by the National Transport Authority (NTA) in Ireland, as do Bus Eireann. They specify them with this front. They are for route 103 out of Broadstone by Bus Eireann.
Dublin Bus and the other operating companies still have a major influence on the spec of new vehicles. The slanted front windscreen is something that the driver unions insist on to minimise reflections in the cab.

The three Hydrogen fuelled buses are operating on Bus Éireann route 105X and not route 103.

Nope, looks awful.
If Wright and Optare were more flexible like this then maybe they’d get some more orders
Totally disagree. It looks bright and refreshing. The Irish PSO services will be getting a major makeover in the next few years.

It's just a standard full length BYD/E200 but with the windscreen at a ridiculous angle and some slightly different roof fittings. Nothing special really.
As above the windscreen is at that angle because the drivers requested it due to reflections. Hardly "ridiculous".

Or that typically useless Dublin Bus destination of "Entering Service"...
Why is something that Dublin Bus does, "typically useless"?

People are posting stuff here without any understanding of why they happen.

That sort of post does come across to me as a Dublin resident as rather patronising to be honest.

I wonder what the logic behind Athlone is - it’s not exactly a pollution or CO2 emissions hotspot!
Athlone town service has a small PVR requirement of seven vehicles. It gives them a perfect opportunity for a small testbed and to release the WM fleet from there to Drogheda/Dundalk for town services there.

Thanks for the very detailed explanation!

It’s easy to be critical of Dublin Bus today with still some quite outdated practices and not-the-best reliability - but for sure a vast improved on a few years back, that they should get credit for.

Looking forward to seeing the first of these exciting new buses in action.
I would be curious to know as a daily Dublin Bus user, what exactly these quite outdated practices are?
 

busesrusuk

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Dublin Bus and the other operating companies still have a major influence on the spec of new vehicles. The slanted front windscreen is something that the driver unions insist on to minimise reflections in the cab.

The three Hydrogen fuelled buses are operating on Bus Éireann route 105X and not route 103.


Totally disagree. It looks bright and refreshing. The Irish PSO services will be getting a major makeover in the next few years.


As above the windscreen is at that angle because the drivers requested it due to reflections. Hardly "ridiculous".


Why is something that Dublin Bus does, "typically useless"?

People are posting stuff here without any understanding of why they happen.

That sort of post does come across to me as a Dublin resident as rather patronising to be honest.


Athlone town service has a small PVR requirement of seven vehicles. It gives them a perfect opportunity for a small testbed and to release the WM fleet from there to Drogheda/Dundalk for town services there.


I would be curious to know as a daily Dublin Bus user, what exactly these quite outdated practices are?
Whilst it may be a flippant comment, I do have some experience of the operation in Dublin and from a user point of view has some "quirks" that make using the network difficult - especially for those not familiar with the network, or like me, from out of town.

I class myself as someone who has a good grasp and understanding of bus networks having been in the industry for over 30 years (now retired).

The destination of "entering service" really doesn't tell the travelling public anything - maybe it would be more useful if it included the route number that the bus would eventually operate. It may give some assurance if you are waiting for a bus on that route that there are indeed buses out there on the route. I am genuinely curious/facsinated as to how that display has come about but personally don't see it as being any more useful as a potential passenger as the display "out of service". Either way I ain't getting on that bus.

Other oddities (to my eyes) that made using the Dublin network more difficult than some others is the odd frequencies of some services. One bus that I tried to get to my place of work had a frequency of every 1hour and 10 minutes. The bus stop info in the centre gave details of the departure times but from the terminus of the route rather than the stop I was using. Unless I had detailed knowledge of Dublin geography and how long certain buses take form terminus to city centre it wasn't very helpful. Thankfully a group of locals at the stop suggested that it took the bus about half an hour to reach the stop from the terminus so we could work out what time we needed to be there to catch it. Stop specific timetables would be far more useful IMO.

On the flip side, the fleet is modern, well maintained and presented and well driven although customer service is sometimes lacking (although that last comment is not unique to Dublin; it is something that the NTA and user groups were particularly keen to address going forward). All of the above comes at a significant cost compared to UK operations. However, the NTA didn't appear to keen on radical change and were happy to allow things to continue, mostly, as they were/are.

No doubt as a Dubliner, you have a better understanding of how the network works and are used to the issues I highlighted above. Once you know how the system works then you adapt, but for an occasional user they can be barriers to use. Has Dublin introduced stop specific information since I was last there in 2018? That would go a long way to give people confidence in using the network even if the frequencies aren't great compared (again) to UK operation.
 

berneyarms

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Whilst it may be a flippant comment, I do have some experience of the operation in Dublin and from a user point of view has some "quirks" that make using the network difficult - especially for those not familiar with the network, or like me, from out of town.

I class myself as someone who has a good grasp and understanding of bus networks having been in the industry for over 30 years (now retired).

The destination of "entering service" really doesn't tell the travelling public anything - maybe it would be more useful if it included the route number that the bus would eventually operate. It may give some assurance if you are waiting for a bus on that route that there are indeed buses out there on the route. I am genuinely curious/facsinated as to how that display has come about but personally don't see it as being any more useful as a potential passenger as the display "out of service". Either way I ain't getting on that bus.

Other oddities (to my eyes) that made using the Dublin network more difficult than some others is the odd frequencies of some services. One bus that I tried to get to my place of work had a frequency of every 1hour and 10 minutes. The bus stop info in the centre gave details of the departure times but from the terminus of the route rather than the stop I was using. Unless I had detailed knowledge of Dublin geography and how long certain buses take form terminus to city centre it wasn't very helpful. Thankfully a group of locals at the stop suggested that it took the bus about half an hour to reach the stop from the terminus so we could work out what time we needed to be there to catch it. Stop specific timetables would be far more useful IMO.

On the flip side, the fleet is modern, well maintained and presented and well driven although customer service is sometimes lacking (although that last comment is not unique to Dublin; it is something that the NTA and user groups were particularly keen to address going forward). All of the above comes at a significant cost compared to UK operations. However, the NTA didn't appear to keen on radical change and were happy to allow things to continue, mostly, as they were/are.

No doubt as a Dubliner, you have a better understanding of how the network works and are used to the issues I highlighted above. Once you know how the system works then you adapt, but for an occasional user they can be barriers to use. Has Dublin introduced stop specific information since I was last there in 2018? That would go a long way to give people confidence in using the network even if the frequencies aren't great compared (again) to UK operation.
Well to be honest it came across as implying that pretty much everything Dublin Bus did was "typically useless", which is why I said it sounded rather patronising.

As already explained by another poster the "Entering service" display was introduced for perfectly valid reasons, due to people complaining about buses displaying "out of service" on dead runs between the depots and the outer termini, which can be quite a distance here in Dublin due to the long nature of most routes given the lack of rail alternatives. While the amount of dead running has reduced in recent years, due to changes in rostering, it is still a fact of life in operating the bus service here. People were far more understanding of the new display as they realised that the bus was actually going to start a service somewhere, rather than supposing that it was out of service for no good reason.

I certainly don't think your suggestion of putting a route number on an out of service bus would do anything but cause more confusion. The current display works in terms of getting the message across.

I agree with your comments regarding timetables on display at stops, but I will say that even in 2018 the NTA had a journey planner at www.transportforireland.ie which includes individual route maps, and they also have a Journey Planner app that will allow you plan a trip and show real time information. Also the Dublin Bus app has been around for 10 years and it and the Dublin Bus website gives real time information for every stop.

The information at bus stops on display is also changing now. All Go-Ahead Ireland operated services have had stop specfic timetables since they took over the operation of orbital routes in Autumn 2018, although it took some time to get them right. Dublin Bus have had them in the background since around the same time, but they are now being rolled out at stops as the new network is implemented, the first phase of which took place in June 2021.

You are quite wrong to say that the NTA don't want any radical change. They were already planning a new network in 2018. This completely new bus network is being rolled out in Dublin between now and 2024. See https://busconnects.ie/initiatives/new-dublin-area-bus-network/ for information about that. The full site www.busconnects.ie also outlines the plans for bus priority measures, ticketing, buses, and bus stops and on-street information.

There is huge change happening in the bus service in Dublin over the next number of years, not least with a 90 minute integrated ticket between bus, tram and DART being launched later this year when the second BusConnects phase is implemented.

So with all of that change happening, I think you have some brushing up to do on the Dublin City bus service! ;)
 

Brooke

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Dublin Bus and the other operating companies still have a major influence on the spec of new vehicles. The slanted front windscreen is something that the driver unions insist on to minimise reflections in the cab.

The three Hydrogen fuelled buses are operating on Bus Éireann route 105X and not route 103.


Totally disagree. It looks bright and refreshing. The Irish PSO services will be getting a major makeover in the next few years.


As above the windscreen is at that angle because the drivers requested it due to reflections. Hardly "ridiculous".


Why is something that Dublin Bus does, "typically useless"?

People are posting stuff here without any understanding of why they happen.

That sort of post does come across to me as a Dublin resident as rather patronising to be honest.


Athlone town service has a small PVR requirement of seven vehicles. It gives them a perfect opportunity for a small testbed and to release the WM fleet from there to Drogheda/Dundalk for town services there.


I would be curious to know as a daily Dublin Bus user, what exactly these quite outdated practices are?
(Perhaps the moderators could move this interesting discussion to somewhere more appropriate - thanks in advance!)

Let’s look just at payments for example, as a critical part of the Consumer Journey:

> Difficult to know the fare if you go somewhere outside your normal journeys
> Exact fare: no change or refunds given
> No bank notes accepted
> No contactless payments other than Leap card
> No smartphone payments

All these things collectively worsen the consumer experience, while slowing down the service and adding additional work for the driver.

My understanding (though I may be wrong) is that even bank card contactless is at least 2-3 years away.

For me, hopping constantly between Dublin, London and Switzerland, I’m afraid to say that many of these things do seem a bit outdated compared to the systems I experience elsewhere.
 

GusB

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*Mod note* The post above and the following were moved from here:
 

berneyarms

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(Perhaps the moderators could move this interesting discussion to somewhere more appropriate - thanks in advance!)

Let’s look just at payments for example, as a critical part of the Consumer Journey:

> Difficult to know the fare if you go somewhere outside your normal journeys
> Exact fare: no change or refunds given
> No bank notes accepted
> No contactless payments other than Leap card
> No smartphone payments

All these things collectively worsen the consumer experience, while slowing down the service and adding additional work for the driver.

My understanding (though I may be wrong) is that even bank card contactless is at least 2-3 years away.

For me, hopping constantly between Dublin, London and Switzerland, I’m afraid to say that many of these things do seem a bit outdated compared to the systems I experience elsewhere.
The exact fare and no change or notes policy was brought in due to repeated vicious assaults on drivers back in the 1990s.

It was done for driver safety and eliminated the problem.

Again, it was something done for good reasons.

The fare structure will be changed to a two fare system later this year as I already posted.

Contactless payments (aside from LEAP card) is now coming within the next three years as part of the BusConnects project. LEAP cards can now be topped up using their mobile phone apps without having to visit a shop or tram/rail ticket machine, and can also be topped up using auto-topup from bank accounts.

There are also LEAP visitor cards available that offer various different unlimited travel periods.

More specific information on contactless developments are outlined here: https://jrnl.ie/5499754

You do have to remember that some Irish banks were quite late to fully implement contactless cards and this didn’t help in this regard.

Finally the NTA journey planner will give you exact information regarding fares for any journey that you want to make in Dublin.
 

Brooke

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The exact fare and no change or notes policy was brought in due to repeated vicious assaults on drivers back in the 1990s.

It was done for driver safety and eliminated the problem.

Again, it was something done for good reasons.

The fare structure will be changed to a two fare system later this year as I already posted.

Contactless payments (aside from LEAP card) is now coming within the next three years as part of the BusConnects project. LEAP cards can now be topped up using their mobile phone apps without having to visit a shop or tram/rail ticket machine, and can also be topped up using auto-topup from bank accounts.

There are also LEAP visitor cards available that offer various different unlimited travel periods.

More specific information on contactless developments are outlined here: https://jrnl.ie/5499754

You do have to remember that some Irish banks were quite late to fully implement contactless cards and this didn’t help in this regard.

Finally the NTA journey planner will give you exact information regarding fares for any journey that you want to make in Dublin.
Sure, I know many of these things were done (or not done) with good reason and I’ve nothing against Dublin Bus. However it does seem a little dated! Let’s agree to differ in our views I guess! :)

More generally, I’ll be delighted if all the developments in the pipeline make it through to fruition since it’ll clearly be a vast improvement. Even though I’m losing part of my front garden to a bus Lane, but that’s another story….!
 

berneyarms

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Sure, I know many of these things were done (or not done) with good reason and I’ve nothing against Dublin Bus. However it does seem a little dated! Let’s agree to differ in our views I guess! :)

More generally, I’ll be delighted if all the developments in the pipeline make it through to fruition since it’ll clearly be a vast improvement. Even though I’m losing part of my front garden to a bus Lane, but that’s another story….!
Btw I do agree that the contactless shoulld have happened far sooner. But that was down to prevarication by the National Transport Authority (NTA) who hold the purse strings - they have been promising new ticketing equipment since over 7 years ago and it never happened. That article that I linked to indicates that we will finally see progress in the next few years on that front.

As it is, I don't think the exact fare policy, with no change given and no bank notes accepted is actually a bad thing on a city bus service.

The vast majority of people now use LEAP cards and are not using cash. As I pointed out, LEAP cards can now be topped up directly from your mobile phone using the LEAP topup app, which makes it much easier to use.
 
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johncrossley

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The fare structure will be changed to a two fare system later this year as I already posted.

Does this mean people can use their Leap cards to pay without talking to the driver, by touching in and out, like they do on the tram and train?
 

berneyarms

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Does this mean people can use their Leap cards to pay without talking to the driver, by touching in and out, like they do on the tram and train?
As I understand it, it will not be tap in / tap out but rather just a single tap as at present.

The vast majority of people will tap the right hand reader which will be for the 90 minute multi-mode fare.

There will still be a short distance fare (similar to the existing 1-3 stage fare) which will require using the driver’s machine, but that will have a relatively low uptake.
 

busesrusuk

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Article from the Irish Times on upcoming pay negotiations at Dublin Bus:


Dublin Bus drivers offered 15% pay rises in return for big work practice changes​

Management plan would reassign drivers from specific routes to multiple ones


The proposals would see a new composite pay rate of €23.50 per hour from next October, which would incorporate shift and premium payments for about 1,700 drivers with a five-over-seven-day contract .

Drivers at Dublin Bus would receive increases of nearly 15 per cent in some cases over a number of years in return for significant changes in work practices under a proposed new deal with management, trade unions have said.
Under the plan, which would run up to 2025, drivers who have traditionally been assigned or “marked-in” for one or two particular routes could in future be asked to drive various services operating from their garage.
The proposals are aimed at facilitating the introduction of the Bus Connects transport reform plan in Dublin and to increase the company’s competitiveness ahead of the expiry of its existing contract with the National Transport Authority in 2024 and the potential for additional routes to be put out to tender.
The proposal has been backed by the National Bus and Rail Union (NBRU) and Siptu.
However, the plan has been opposed by some drivers at Dublin Bus. They are understood to be unhappy about having to drive different routes while some are believed to have concerns that the proposals could increase the time they have to spend driving within their 39-hour week.

Shift payments​

The proposals would see the introduction of a new composite pay rate of €23.50 per hour from next October, which would incorporate shift and premium payments for about 1,700 drivers with a five-over-seven-day contract – meaning they work two Sundays out of every five. This would equate to about €916 for a 39-hour week.
Unions maintained that drivers on such an arrangement at the top of their scale could earn up to €51,500 annually, excluding bonuses.
As part of the proposals, drivers with longer service – more than 20, 30 and 40 years – will receive additional annual leave.
The number of uncertificated sick days per year will also increase from four to five.

Under proposed changes to holidays, in future two rather than three weeks will be allocated during the summer with another week to be taken in the spring or winter.

Safe driving bonus​

There will also be improvements to existing bonus arrangements. The payment under the attendance bonus scheme would increase from €250 to €500 tax-free while the safe driving bonus would rise from €250 tax-free to €575 taxable.
In a joint statement to members on Sunday, the NBRU and Siptu said while they did not like elements in the proposal that impacted on drivers, they had secured significant guaranteed pay rises and improvements in the terms of the bonus schemes.
The unions said the proposals would go to a ballot of members and that they were “not ramming them down the throats” of drivers .
They warned, however, of potential adverse consequences if the proposals were rejected.
“It is true that no union can give guarantees around winning future tenders for current and/or new Dublin routes. We can say, however, that Dublin Bus’s chances of winning future tendering competitions will be severely diminished, if not holed below the waterline, if it remains as it currently operates. That is not scaremongering, that is just trying to spell it out.”
 
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GusB

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Please remember that when referring to an external source, you must also include a quote from the source.

Also, do try to provide direct links to the external site, rather than 3rd party links (ie those via Outlook/Google news etc.) as these are far too long and have no relation to the site that you're linking to.
 
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