Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[MotCO]

Possibly the reason for the change in scheme is a desire to distance from the StreetLite, which as far as I can tell is almost universally disliked. Has Wright even had any StreetLite orders of late?

Likewise, have there been any orders for the Optare Solo? It may be that the market has changed and now the Solo/Streetlite orders are going to MMC Darts and the Mellor Strata, if not to the Caeteno and Yutong electric minibuses.

 

[Volvodart]

Stagecoach Orkney are due some Solos.

 

[F Great Eastern]

ADL have won a contract for 200 Enviro 200 EV vehicles from Transport for Ireland.

They've won the contract after offering a uniquely customised version of the vehicle.

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) and BYD UK jointly announced today that their electric vehicle partnership, the UK’s leading electric bus producer, has signed a framework agreement with the National Transport Authority of Ireland (NTA) for the delivery of up to 200 BYD ADL Enviro200EV zero emission battery-electric buses. An initial firm order for 45 buses was agreed at the same time, with delivery commencing in 2022.

ADL is a subsidiary of leading independent global bus manufacturer NFI Group Inc. (NFI), while BYD is a global leader in batteries, energy management and electric mobility.

The single supplier framework agreement with the NTA will run for up to five years and covers the delivery of single deck long length battery-electric buses. The BYD ADL partnership, represented by ADL as primary contractor, was selected in a comprehensive and rigorous procurement process in which the company provided the strongest offer. It is the BYD ADL partnership’s first contract in Ireland as well as the largest order for zero emission buses in the country to date.

ADL’s body engineers have worked with their colleagues at BYD to tailor the BYD ADL Enviro200EV to the specific needs of the NTA and its operators. This has resulted in a vehicle that will be 12m long and can be specified in several configurations to suit different operational requirements, including a version with two doorways, a wheelchair space and a dedicated area for the accommodation of at least one unfolded pram, pushchair or buggy.

The first 45 buses have been firmly ordered and are expected to commence delivery in 2022 for services in Athlone and the Dublin Metropolitan Area.

All will be built in ADL’s factories in the United Kingdom in the proven combination of BYD electric technology and batteries with stylish bodywork and passenger-centric interior by ADL.

Anne Graham, CEO of the National Transport Authority said: “The contract signed for the supply of these battery electric buses highlights the NTA’s commitment to a sustainable and accessible transport network. Over the next five years we are planning a major increase in the number of low- and zero-emission urban buses in operation on the Transport For Ireland (TFI) network across the country. The fleet ordered today represents the best mix of cutting edge electric technology, proven reliability, accessibility and comfort for all passengers who use TFI bus services. I look forward to working with our bus operator partners, as well as ADL, in ensuring that the first of these buses are delivered and ready to operate in 2022.”

Paul Davies, ADL President and Managing Director, said: “This new agreement for up to 200 zero emission buses is further testament to our customer focus which is exemplified in our ability to tailor vehicle specifications to operational requirements. Together with our existing agreement for up to 600 zero emission capable Enviro400ER plug-in hybrid buses, we are honoured to be playing a key role in the roll-out of zero emission mobility in Ireland.”

“This agreement with Ireland’s NTA is one of the most significant commitments to eMobility we have ever seen in Europe,” said BYD UK Managing Director, Frank Thorpe, “and it is the BYD ADL partnership that appears increasingly to be the preferred choice for Local Authorities and public transport operators. This framework agreement is a pledge to bringing about a sustainable future for public transport in Ireland and we are delighted to join the NTA for Ireland on its journey.”

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

 

[cnjb8]

ADL have won a contract for 200 Enviro 200 EV vehicles from Transport for Ireland.

They've won the contract after offering a uniquely customised version of the vehicle.

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

*Mod note* Quote required please

Nope, looks awful.
If Wright and Optare were more flexible like this then maybe they’d get some more orders

 

[Jordan Adam]

Nope, looks awful.
If Wright and Optare were more flexible like this then maybe they’d get some more orders

It's just a standard full length BYD/E200 but with the windscreen at a ridiculous angle and some slightly different roof fittings. Nothing special really.

 

[py_megapixel]

Nope, looks awful.
If Wright and Optare were more flexible like this then maybe they’d get some more orders

I think it actually looks quite nice. Still unmistakably ADL if you look closely, but a bit more aerodynamic looking than the stock E200

It also does a good job of hiding the lopsidedness in appearance that the E200 design with the battery pack on top has.

Always amuses me what they put on the destination display in these artist's impressions. I doubt one will ever run with "ZERO EMISSION" on the front.
Maybe they should use "STAND CLEAR - BUS REVERSING" or something like that!

 

[busesrusuk]

Or that typically useless Dublin Bus destination of "Entering Service"...

 

[Brooke]

Or that typically useless Dublin Bus destination of "Entering Service"...

Ah yes, must be a very busy destination, half the buses in Dublin are going there…

More seriously, great to see the NTA committing in this way, given Ireland has not perhaps been at the forefront of sustainable transport so far.

I wonder what the logic behind Athlone is - it’s not exactly a pollution or CO2 emissions hotspot!

 

[507021]

Possibly the reason for the change in scheme is a desire to distance from the StreetLite, which as far as I can tell is almost universally disliked. Has Wright even had any StreetLite orders of late?

If Bus Lists On The Web is correct, a grand total of four new StreetLites have been registered in the UK so far this year.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Ah yes, must be a very busy destination, half the buses in Dublin are going there…

More seriously, great to see the NTA committing in this way, given Ireland has not perhaps been at the forefront of sustainable transport so far.

I wonder what the logic behind Athlone is - it’s not exactly a pollution or CO2 emissions hotspot!

Dublin Bus had an image issue with the term 'out of service' about a decade or so ago since a fair few services used to be seen throughout the day wearing that scroll which used to generate complaints from irate passengers waiting ages for a bus to turn up but seeing a load of out of service buses going past.

Most of the time those vehicles were just going to their terminus to start work like they are now with the entering service scrolls, but back then there was a bigger practice than there is now of late running vehicles simply running out of service on their route in order to depart the outer terminus on time.

Now Dublin Bus is far more efficient with better rotas and diagrams that make far better use of resources than back then and there is far less dead running. Also there is far more oversight from a proper regulator and real time information which makes such practices virtually dead.

However the scroll of entering service still remains, because it created a better image than the old scroll which brought back negative experiences for some.

 

[Brooke]

Dublin Bus had an image issue with the term 'out of service' about a decade or so ago since a fair few services used to be seen throughout the day wearing that scroll which used to generate complaints from irate passengers waiting ages for a bus to turn up but seeing a load of out of service buses going past.

Most of the time those vehicles were just going to their terminus to start work like they are now with the entering service scrolls, but back then there was a bigger practice than there is now of late running vehicles simply running out of service on their route in order to depart the outer terminus early.

Now Dublin Bus is far more efficient with better rotas and diagrams that make far better use of resources than back then and there is far less dead running. Also there is far more oversight from a proper regulator and real time information which makes such practices virtually dead.

However the scroll of entering service still remains, because it created a better image than the old scroll which brought back negative experiences for some.

Thanks for the very detailed explanation!

It’s easy to be critical of Dublin Bus today with still some quite outdated practices and not-the-best reliability - but for sure a vast improved on a few years back, that they should get credit for.

Looking forward to seeing the first of these exciting new buses in action.

 

[cnjb8]

It's just a standard full length BYD/E200 but with the windscreen at a ridiculous angle and some slightly different roof fittings. Nothing special really.

I think it actually looks quite nice. Still unmistakably ADL if you look closely, but a bit more aerodynamic looking than the stock E200

It also does a good job of hiding the lopsidedness in appearance that the E200 design with the battery pack on top has.

Always amuses me what they put on the destination display in these artist's impressions. I doubt one will ever run with "ZERO EMISSION" on the front.
Maybe they should use "STAND CLEAR - BUS REVERSING" or something like that!

I’m still not keen on it. The weird indent on the windscreen always manages to ruin good or medium designs like the Gemini 3 and ALX400

If Bus Lists On The Web is correct, a grand total of four new StreetLites have been registered in the UK so far this year.

Surely the pandemic has a major part to play in it. Also with Wright producing no buses between September 2019 and January 2020 meant any potential customers had to switch to ADL and it’s Enviro200 MMC. Although with Wright and it’s renowned (pun intended, I apologise) terrible building quality meant many operators switched to other builders.

 

[scosutsut]

There is also the small detail of neither Wright or Optare having a proven, mature single deck EV in service in great numbers (or at all, in Wright's case, unless six sitting largely unwanted in storage with Lothian count!)

Sensible businesses will weigh all that up when they mull a purchasing decision.

I quite like the revised look, the front with that black band still rankles though.

 

[507021]

Surely the pandemic has a major part to play in it. Also with Wright producing no buses between September 2019 and January 2020 meant any potential customers had to switch to ADL and it’s Enviro200 MMC. Although with Wright and it’s renowned (pun intended, I apologise) terrible building quality meant many operators switched to other builders.

Based on my own personal experience of driving pre-Bamford era StreetLites, they're just not very good. They're noisy, the wheels are too small, the build and ride quality was dreadful and they're hideously underpowered. The only redeeming features for me were the fully adjustable dashboard and the lack of a seat overlooking the cab.

To put it into perspective, over 300 StreetDecks have been produced since production restarted last year, compared to 42 StreetLites.

 

[cnjb8]

Based on my own personal experience of driving pre-Bamford era StreetLites, they're just not very good. They're noisy, the wheels are too small, the build and ride quality was dreadful and they're hideously underpowered. The only redeeming features for me were the fully adjustable dashboard and the lack of a seat overlooking the cab.

To put it into perspective, over 300 StreetDecks have been produced since production restarted last year, compared to 42 StreetLites.

The Rotala order has skewed the figures though, their order would not be so big if they hadn’t had loads of buses to return to First

 

[Snow1964]

According to an article in Belfast Telegraph based on interview with Jo Bamford, Wrightbus have confirmed orders for their new electric double deck Electroliner.

No details of who customers are, or how many yet

Wrightbus close to sealing zero-emissions vehicles deals

The owner of Wrightbus in Ballymena has said it’s won orders for its rapid-charging double-deck bus, the Electroliner.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

The owner of Wrightbus in Ballymena has said it’s won orders for its rapid-charging double-deck bus, the Electroliner.

As Jo Bamford spoke to Business Telegraph about almost two years at the helm of the Northern Ireland bus giant, he said there were deals made for the zero-emissions vehicles with transport operators in the UK and Ireland.

The Wrightbus executive chairman, who bought Wrightbus out of administration in October 2019, said he could not yet confirm details of the customers.

The Electroliner is described by Wrightbus as “the fastest charging double deck” on the market.

It has a charge time of just two hours 45 minutes in comparison to the industry standard of between four to five hours.

He told Business Telegraph: “We have formally had orders and I’m not sure whether I can talk about them yet. But we’ve had a lot of excitement about the Electroliner, because it’s the best there is.”

Last week, three new hydrogen-fuel-cell-electric double-deckers from the company took to the streets of Dublin.

And in June, the company unveiled a fleet of 20 hydrogen buses for Transport for London alongside London Mayor Sadiq Khan.

 

[507021]

The Rotala order has skewed the figures though, their order would not be so big if they hadn’t had loads of buses to return to First

The circumstances behind the Rotala StreetDeck order are irrelevant.

Even before the pandemic, operators who typically bought StreetLites were buying Enviro200s instead.

 

[cnjb8]

The circumstances behind the Rotala StreetDeck order are irrelevant.

Even before the pandemic, operators who typically bought StreetLites were buying Enviro200s instead.

Yes that’s true about the StreetLite order. But would Rotala have placed this massive order for StreetDecks had they not taken on Bolton?

 

[MotCO]

Yes that’s true about the StreetLite order. But would Rotala have placed this massive order for StreetDecks had they not taken on Bolton?

Weren't many of them buses diverted from York when First did not want them? I presume Diamond got them for a knockdown price. It therefore made sense for uniformity to acquire more of the same

 

[507021]

Yes that’s true about the StreetLite order. But would Rotala have placed this massive order for StreetDecks had they not taken on Bolton?

Hypothetical. The fact is, Rotala purchased Bolton depot and ordered 120 StreetDecks for that operation.

It is far too early to suggest the Rotala order has skewed the figures when we simply don't know the composition of existing StreetDeck orders or what orders for the type may be placed in the future. I think it also needs to be considered that Wrightbus is, to all intents and purposes, a new company using the name and premises of the original company. It will take them time to build up a customer base, which once established, will increase the likelihood of repeat orders of a significant volume.

Weren't many of them buses diverted from York when First did not want them? I presume Diamond got them for a knockdown price. It therefore made sense for uniformity to acquire more of the same

The 19-reg examples (40701-713) were rejected by First, the 20/70/21-reg examples were all ordered by Rotala.

 

[berneyarms]

Dublin Buses have their fleet ordered by the National Transport Authority (NTA) in Ireland, as do Bus Eireann. They specify them with this front. They are for route 103 out of Broadstone by Bus Eireann.

Dublin Bus and the other operating companies still have a major influence on the spec of new vehicles. The slanted front windscreen is something that the driver unions insist on to minimise reflections in the cab.

The three Hydrogen fuelled buses are operating on Bus Éireann route 105X and not route 103.

Nope, looks awful.
If Wright and Optare were more flexible like this then maybe they’d get some more orders

Totally disagree. It looks bright and refreshing. The Irish PSO services will be getting a major makeover in the next few years.

It's just a standard full length BYD/E200 but with the windscreen at a ridiculous angle and some slightly different roof fittings. Nothing special really.

As above the windscreen is at that angle because the drivers requested it due to reflections. Hardly "ridiculous".

Or that typically useless Dublin Bus destination of "Entering Service"...

Why is something that Dublin Bus does, "typically useless"?

People are posting stuff here without any understanding of why they happen.

That sort of post does come across to me as a Dublin resident as rather patronising to be honest.

I wonder what the logic behind Athlone is - it’s not exactly a pollution or CO2 emissions hotspot!

Athlone town service has a small PVR requirement of seven vehicles. It gives them a perfect opportunity for a small testbed and to release the WM fleet from there to Drogheda/Dundalk for town services there.

Thanks for the very detailed explanation!

It’s easy to be critical of Dublin Bus today with still some quite outdated practices and not-the-best reliability - but for sure a vast improved on a few years back, that they should get credit for.

Looking forward to seeing the first of these exciting new buses in action.

I would be curious to know as a daily Dublin Bus user, what exactly these quite outdated practices are?

 

[cnjb8]

Hypothetical. The fact is, Rotala purchased Bolton depot and ordered 120 StreetDecks for that operation.

It is far too early to suggest the Rotala order has skewed the figures when we simply don't know the composition of existing StreetDeck orders or what orders for the type may be placed in the future. I think it also needs to be considered that Wrightbus is, to all intents and purposes, a new company using the name and premises of the original company. It will take them time to build up a customer base, which once established, will increase the likelihood of repeat orders of a significant volume.



The 19-reg examples (40701-713) were rejected by First, the 20/70/21-reg examples were all ordered by Rotala.

Yes of course it’s hypothetical, I agree. But I think the StreetDeck order wouldn’t be so big if Bolton weren’t involved, hypothetically.

Dublin Bus and the other operating companies still have a major influence on the spec of new vehicles. The slanted front windscreen is something that the driver unions insist on to minimise reflections in the cab.

The three Hydrogen fuelled buses are operating on Bus Éireann route 105X and not route 103.


Totally disagree. It looks bright and refreshing. The Irish PSO services will be getting a major makeover in the next few years.


As above the windscreen is at that angle because the drivers requested it due to reflections. Hardly "ridiculous".


Why is something that Dublin Bus does, "typically useless"?

People are posting stuff here without any understanding of why they happen.

That sort of post does come across to me as a Dublin resident as rather patronising to be honest.


Athlone town service has a small PVR requirement of seven vehicles. It gives them a perfect opportunity for a small testbed and to release the WM fleet from there to Drogheda/Dundalk for town services there.


I would be curious to know as a daily Dublin Bus user, what exactly these quite outdated practices are?

I had read 103, my apologies

 

[GusB]

The discussion of Dublin Bus was off-topic for this thread, but I've moved the relevant posts to this thread:

Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus Discussion

Hello Probably a long shot but I was wondering if anyone could help me identify the registration plates of these Bus Eireann (BE) vehicles, I have tried Bus Lists on the Web to no avail. I have listed the fleetnumber and current depot. DVS109 - Thurles SI103 - Ballina SI105 - Thurles SI106 -...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[grangergranger]

I've got a small query.

Based on bus operators committing to stop purchasing conventional diesel buses,

Would they class Smart Hybrids within the category of conventional diesels or as hybrids??

I wouldn't because the batteries on the smart hybrid vehicles don't primarily drive the vehicle.

Never the less, I can see bus operators using the "Smart Hybrid" term as a loop hole to save money.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I've got a small query.

Based on bus operators committing to stop purchasing conventional diesel buses,

Would they class Smart Hybrids within the category of conventional diesels or as hybrids??

I wouldn't because the batteries on the smart hybrid vehicles don't primarily drive the vehicle.

Never the less, I can see bus operators using the "Smart Hybrid" term as a loop hole to save money.

That was the case for a while in London, but it appears that all new vehicles for TfL contracts are fully zero emission.

Certainly the current ZEBRA funding round (and the equivalent in Scotland) is also based around fully EV vehicles, too, not hybrids. So I suspect there won't be many more, if any, ordered - NatEx have committed now to not buying diesel for bus work, Go-Ahead and First have made their intentions clear, too, so the requirement is vanishing fast.

 

[cnjb8]

I've got a small query.

Based on bus operators committing to stop purchasing conventional diesel buses,

Would they class Smart Hybrids within the category of conventional diesels or as hybrids??

I wouldn't because the batteries on the smart hybrid vehicles don't primarily drive the vehicle.

Never the less, I can see bus operators using the "Smart Hybrid" term as a loop hole to save money.

Stagecoach’s last order for E400MMCs was around 10-15 smart hybrids. They were delivered for Canterbury Park and Ride, Aberhill at East Scotland and Aberdeen at Bluebird early this year

That was the case for a while in London, but it appears that all new vehicles for TfL contracts are fully zero emission.

Certainly the current ZEBRA funding round (and the equivalent in Scotland) is also based around fully EV vehicles, too, not hybrids. So I suspect there won't be many more, if any, ordered - NatEx have committed now to not buying diesel for bus work, Go-Ahead and First have made their intentions clear, too, so the requirement is vanishing fast.

Hybrids were a temporary solution to a low emission vehicle IMO. They just aren’t needed anymore.

 

[Snow1964]

That was the case for a while in London, but it appears that all new vehicles for TfL contracts are fully zero emission.

Certainly the current ZEBRA funding round (and the equivalent in Scotland) is also based around fully EV vehicles, too, not hybrids. So I suspect there won't be many more, if any, ordered - NatEx have committed now to not buying diesel for bus work, Go-Ahead and First have made their intentions clear, too, so the requirement is vanishing fast.

TfL have specified zero emission for single decks from early 2020

Doesn’t appear to be a zero emission requirement for double decks yet, new hybrids and smart hybrids are in theory still possible. However the end date for any buses not zero emission operating in London keeps changing (anything from 2030 to 2037) and no one is going to order a hybrid that would enter service in 2022 and might be obsolete in 2030.

 

[MotCO]

TfL have specified zero emission for single decks from early 2020

Doesn’t appear to be a zero emission requirement for double decks yet, hybrids and smart hybrids are in theory still possible. However the end date for any buses not zero emission operating in London keeps changing (anything from 2030 to 2037) and no one is going to order a hybrid that would enter service in 2022 and might be obsolete in 2030.

Isn't it the case that all new buses (single and double decker) for TfL contracts have to be zero emission, but that tender renewals can specify either existing Euro VI or new zero emission buses?

 

[Goldfish62]

Isn't it the case that all new buses (single and double decker) for TfL contracts have to be zero emission, but that tender renewals can specify either existing Euro VI or new zero emission buses?

The bottom line is no new diesels. As hybrid single decks don't really work it means for new single decks electric is really the only option. As mentioned above hybrid is still an option for new double deck bids, but as I understand it operators are pricing electric so competitively it hadn't for a while been worth awarding based on hybrids.

In respect of existing vehicles offered as alternative bids pretty much anything still goes, including diesel.

 

[Snow1964]

The bottom line is no new diesels. As hybrid single decks don't really work it means for new single decks electric is really the only option. As mentioned above hybrid is still an option for new double deck bids, but as I understand it operators are pricing electric so competitively it hadn't for a while been worth awarding based on hybrids.

In respect of existing vehicles offered as alternative bids pretty much anything still goes, including diesel.

Also TfL seem to have accepted that garages do not yet have sufficient electric bus infrastructure, and it takes time to install it, so seem happy for new contracts to commence with conversion to electric bus many months after start date.

I suspect no one is even offering to make a hybrid to TfL spec anymore which is why there are no competitve bids with them.