'Bus Bandits' to be banned from Birmingham City Centre

[ralphchadkirk]

Same for Sunny Travel.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eybusman/5742517492/

All their buses seem to go to this strange place called Service. Yet to find it on a map.

One of their vehicles broke down outside my flat the other week, and it was parked up causing traffic congestion right at the start of rush hour. About an hour and a half later some guy turned up in a Mercedes with a handheld petrol can and started to refuel the bus. It had ran out of diesel!

How does the sign on the front of the bus work? It says Max Fare - £1.50 - surely that implies that is the maximum anyone will pay, yet a day return is £2.00

 

[radamfi]

TfGM are very quiet when it comes to Statutory Quality Partnerships of any type. Why do you think that this may be so?

There is the 192 route SQP, although that didn't get a huge amount of publicity. It effectively stops cowboy firms like the infamous UK North from competing on that route. It does seem surprising that they didn't go for a city centre SQP like in Nottingham and now Birmingham, which would cover the 192 anyway. Schoolboy error, IMO.

On the other hand, most cowboy operation in central Manchester has been virtually wiped out or bought out by the big boys so a SQP wouldn't make much difference. And of course it doesn't make any difference to the fundamental issues regarding deregulation: poor integration between different routes and modes, high fares (especially when changing buses and/or mode), overbussing on some routes while other routes are underserved etc. etc.

So it could be argued that TfGM can't really do that much about buses unless they go for a QC and of course that path is full of obstacles. So they are concentrating their efforts on things that are more in their gift and they certainly have their hands full with the Metrolink expansion.

 

[Mojo]

How does the sign on the front of the bus work? It says Max Fare - £1.50 - surely that implies that is the maximum anyone will pay, yet a day return is £2.00

It's the maximum single fare.

National Express have 2 fares, short hop (up to 2 fare stages) or maximum fare and other bus companies use the same fare structure. Instead of saying your destination when you get on the bus, you state your fare and are either issued with a ticket to the end of the 2nd fare stage, or a ticket printed WM MAX £1.80. Most bus routes don't do returns.

 

[transportphoto]

I took a second look at this... a bus? http://www.flickr.com/photos/eybusman/5745459445/in/photostream/lightbox/

 

[Schnellzug]

I took a second look at this... a bus? http://www.flickr.com/photos/eybusman/5745459445/in/photostream/lightbox/

An East Lancs bodied Dart, quite an early one with that body style. Looks like an ex Bournemouth one at first glance, but not with that registration.

 

[Ivo]

Looks like it's been with Sandwell for a few years, and that it used to be all-red. I waas going to ask if it *had* to be a Dart (Southend has had Darts and Lances with that body) but checking confirms "Ds Dt": Dennis Dart. I can't find any trace of it from before late 2008 though.

 

[mbonwick]

Dennis Dart 9m. East Lancs EL2000 B34F. New to London Buses 06/1994 as DEL5.

 

[Badger]

Surely the worst bus company in the West Midlands; not sure if they go into Birmingham:

http://www.transpirebus.org.uk/imhowarth01/exile02.jpg
http://chesterfieldbus.bravehost.com/photographs/L742LWA-535-23-02-08.jpg

Appropriately named "Banga Buses".

"Traffic bosses in November 2006 found Banga vehicles were not in a fit state to carry passengers."

http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2008/01/15/banga-buses-given-deadline/
http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2009/01/19/hearing-to-decide-fate-of-banga-buses/
http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2006/12/02/banga-buses-are-banned/

They, unfortunately, "won the right to stay on the road" despite all this.

"Disgrace" and "death trap" are often thrown around.

In fact you know what, just http://www.expressandstar.com/?s=banga

 

[Schnellzug]

Surely the worst bus company in the West Midlands; not sure if they go into Birmingham:

http://www.transpirebus.org.uk/imhowarth01/exile02.jpg
http://chesterfieldbus.bravehost.com/photographs/L742LWA-535-23-02-08.jpg

Appropriately named "Banga Buses".

"Traffic bosses in November 2006 found Banga vehicles were not in a fit state to carry passengers."

http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2008/01/15/banga-buses-given-deadline/
http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2009/01/19/hearing-to-decide-fate-of-banga-buses/
http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2006/12/02/banga-buses-are-banned/

They, unfortunately, "won the right to stay on the road" despite all this.

"Disgrace" and "death trap" are often thrown around.

In fact you know what, just http://www.expressandstar.com/?s=banga

"Bus firm Banga looks at new name" no, really? I can't imagine why they might think that.

that second picture, the dot matrix display seems torn between "Sorry not in service" and something else, and they've given up and stuck the traditional piece of A4 paper in the Windscreen.

 

[BestWestern]

Surely the worst bus company in the West Midlands; not sure if they go into Birmingham:

Appropriately named "Banga Buses".

"Traffic bosses in November 2006 found Banga vehicles were not in a fit state to carry passengers."

They, unfortunately, "won the right to stay on the road" despite all this.

"Disgrace" and "death trap" are often thrown around.

There is absolutely no place at all for crap firms like this in a modern public transport structure. Just plain sh*te. This is the grim reality of the golden virtue of 'competition' :roll:

 

[tbtc]

My favourite local "bandit" is Redline of Barnsley, who make virtually no effort to repaint/rebrand the second hand buses that they operate, meaning one was running round Barnsley recently showing "City Centre" in its blinds (not sure Barnsley will ever qualify for city status...)

But there's a difference between insisting on some of the things on the list in the OP and insisting on everything being low floor (given that step entrance buses still have a few years life left in them). Otherwise you end up dumping all step entrance buses on a town not savvy enough to have a Quality Partnership set up

 

[SS4]

But there's a difference between insisting on some of the things on the list in the OP and insisting on everything being low floor (given that step entrance buses still have a few years life left in them). Otherwise you end up dumping all step entrance buses on a town not savvy enough to have a Quality Partnership set up

There don't seem to be that many around though, certainly not from what I've seen in town but I can see a cascade if it does happen, whether to other routes or other places remains to be seen

 

[Badger]

There are quite a few around these parts.

All Banga Buses, all Travel Express buses, and the old NX:WM Metrobuses (which are now with Thurmaston Bus and Centrebus in Leicester) to name but a few.

Edit: My mistake, forgot this was a Birmingham thread!

 

[tbtc]

There don't seem to be that many around though, certainly not from what I've seen in town but I can see a cascade if it does happen, whether to other routes or other places remains to be seen

I don't remember seeing any in central Birmingham for some time, but my problem with a similar scheme we have in Sheffield (SQP around Barnsley Road) is that its meant one side of town gets dozens of low floor double deckers whilst the old step-entrance buses are forced onto other areas, meaning some places become dumping grounds.

 

[Nym]

You mean like Kingston upon Hull is for all of Stagecoach's old *coughs*

Their 'new' frequento buses a couple of months ago where ex. Manchester T reg Dennis somthingorothers IIRC.

 

[BestWestern]

You mean like Kingston upon Hull is for all of Stagecoach's old *coughs*

Their 'new' frequento buses a couple of months ago where ex. Manchester T reg Dennis somthingorothers IIRC.

In fairness to Slavecoach though they do seem to be able to maintain a decent standard of upkeep on their motors, even those which are somewhat long in the tooth! I'd rather a smart step entrance Olly or B10M than a shagged low floor Dart with a jerky gearbox any day of the week. Certainly down our way at least, it's very uncommon to see a genuinely tatty example, considerably better than some of their counterparts. Unless they've changed it their repainting schedule is roughly every three years, and that shows as the buses are usually clean and tidy. Some Barbie's haven't had a lick in a decade or so, literally!

 

[Nym]

Oh yeah, the on Bankside does a great job, and the general public opinion is that they prefer the old Leyland ?Olympians (on an R Plate) to the new(er) stuff, and usually to the brand new EYMS Stock too...

Comfyer, more seats and more space is the general sentement, and showing my routes here, thats what I normally hear from Gratfeild & Preston Road, when I was on these buses (when they were brand new!)

 

[SS4]

Some Barbie's haven't had a lick in a decade or so, literally!

I'm sure there is a cleaner alternative to what I thought upon reading this...


It'll be interesting to see what happens to the buses outside the city centre though, thankfully for NXWM the 28 (which always reeks) doesn't go into town

 

[BestWestern]

I'm sure there is a cleaner alternative to what I thought upon reading this...


It'll be interesting to see what happens to the buses outside the city centre though, thankfully for NXWM the 28 (which always reeks) doesn't go into town

Barbie is most definitely filthy in every sense

 

[Schnellzug]

My favourite local "bandit" is Redline of Barnsley, who make virtually no effort to repaint/rebrand the second hand buses that they operate, meaning one was running round Barnsley recently showing "City Centre" in its blinds (not sure Barnsley will ever qualify for city status...)

But there's a difference between insisting on some of the things on the list in the OP and insisting on everything being low floor (given that step entrance buses still have a few years life left in them). Otherwise you end up dumping all step entrance buses on a town not savvy enough to have a Quality Partnership set up

A well maintained step entrance bus (like a Volvo Olympian) can be much, much better quality than a rattly old Pointer Dart or early Solo, to be sure.

 

[Badger]

Yeah but there seems to be this notion of maintaining new buses better than old ones. NX:WM for example; if the bus is new it gets priority for maintenance, security, repainting; but as it gets to a few years old it eventually gets the same treatment as everything else and then when it gets to ten years old like all their Optares, they just give up completely on them.

I am sure if they kept up the maintenance properly for every bus, they wouldn't need to buy new buses. There is no reason for the ten year old optares to be in the bad state they are in right now. They were bought brand new, and highly praised, but in the space of a London bus's run, they've become so shoddy that they have trouble coping with dudley hills and appear to be held together with chewing gum...

In short if you give a branch an old bus they'll often treat it like an old bus.

 

[tbtc]

A well maintained step entrance bus (like a Volvo Olympian) can be much, much better quality than a rattly old Pointer Dart or early Solo, to be sure.

Much better ride quality, but not much use when I'm trying to get a pram on board.

Whilst there will always be some areas with above/below average fleets, I don't like the idea of places becoming "dumping grounds", which is what would happen if all PTE areas insisted on only low floor machines.

 

[anthony263]

I have to praise Stagecoach who do try to update their fleets regulary, I know they have spent a lot of money buying brand new vehicles for their south wales operations with somke cascades from other area's (Mostly because of vehicles written off in accidents or depot fires and the company having to take on more work suddenly when another operator suddently closes)

Unlike First Cymru who always seem to get the knockoffs from Slough or Bristol, even first's devon & cornwall operations have started getting some brand new vehicles how about giving us some low floor double deckers?

 

[richw]

Unlike First Cymru who always seem to get the knockoffs from Slough or Bristol, even first's devon & cornwall operations have started getting some brand new vehicles how about giving us some low floor double deckers?

First devon and Cornwall have quite a modern fleet, dont remember seeing a bus older than an 05 reg for a while. (although they have some with HIG irish plates, unsure of the age of them). i must also say D&C always seem to keep their buses in good condition.

 

[radamfi]

I would agree that Stagecoach typically have younger fleets than First. However, First buy higher specification vehicles, for example Wright Gemini bodied Volvos with double glazing on single decks. Stagecoach on the other hand buy mostly lower quality Enviro 200/400s.

 

[BestWestern]

I would agree that Stagecoach typically have younger fleets than First. However, First buy higher specification vehicles, for example Wright Gemini bodied Volvos with double glazing on single decks. Stagecoach on the other hand buy mostly lower quality Enviro 200/400s.

This is true, but the difference in initial vehicle quality is often outweighed by different attitudes towards maintenance after a few years. And to be perfectly honest the average punter couldn't care less whether their ride is a Wright Volvo or a cheap and cheerful Enviro, so long as it's clean and it gets them there. Features like double glazing are becoming increasingly unfavourable in this age of sky high fuel prices, it's a lot of pointless extra weight. First have looked at lower cost 'budget' vehicles, hence their recent dabble with the Temsa Avenue. Fair play to Stagecoach for supporting their home market, though of course Suiter's shares in AlexD probably help to influence the buying policy!

It's normal practice for large national operators to have different 'tiers' of vehicle quality depending on location. The obvious example would be London, where the requirement to have newish vehicles in most cases means a regular intake of new rolling stock and the resultant cascades elsewhere when they have served their time. Buses which are no longer good enough for the capital are considered good enough for fleets elsewhere, and are then sent elsewhere to live out their days. Unfortunately the general spec for London motors is at odds with many of the places they end up going, as drivers discover to their annoyance when trying to get them up hills!

 

[radamfi]

Features like double glazing are becoming increasingly unfavourable in this age of sky high fuel prices, it's a lot of pointless extra weight.

But it means you can actually see out of the window in winter!

 

[BestWestern]

But it means you can actually see out of the window in winter!

Well, until they mist up, and then you can see nothing at all day or night!

 

[radamfi]

Well, until they mist up, and then you can see nothing at all day or night!

Then you repair the double glazing. Standard practice in countries where buses matter.

 

[BestWestern]

Then you repair the double glazing. Standard practice in countries where buses matter.

I shall have to visit said countries one day! I wonder if they also maintain the air conditioning units on the roofs of their ex-Hong Kong etc buses?!! :roll: