Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[MCR247]

Haven’t the London Fire Brigade been getting converted Switch Solos throughout the course of this year though?

I think Switch class them as a separate (presumably specialised?) offer

 

[Blindtraveler]

Of all the former Switch CEO's achievements in his post, the dumbest one of the lot has to be setting fire to an established base of small operator customers who bought single batches of diesel engined Solos, sending them to the arms of ADL.....!

Given they only stock manufacturing about 18 months ago I wonder how many customers did actually go over and how quickly there will return? I suspect the latter is quite quickly as for a single deck vehicle of this type the modern day solo SR is in my opinion a far better offering than and e200

 

[MotCO]

the modern day solo SR is in my opinion a far better offering than and e200

and the Streetlite?

 

[m79900]

and the Streetlite?

Is the Streetlite still available?

 

[Snow1964]

Given they only stock manufacturing about 18 months ago I wonder how many customers did actually go over and how quickly there will return? I suspect the latter is quite quickly as for a single deck vehicle of this type the modern day solo SR is in my opinion a far better offering than and e200

I agree, and what is significant about the 60 that Stagecoach have ordered is they are all the slim version (which I think is 2.33m rather than 2.5 or 2.55m)

I suspect that means they will go on rural routes, or ones with medieval street layouts, where cost of electric bus can't be justified.

I would not be surprised in ADLs proposed 100EV is more than double the price of slim solos

 

[MotCO]

I would not be surprised in ADLs proposed 100EV is more than double the price of slim solos

What is the daily mileage of a rural minibus? Would an EV be able to undertake a full day's schedule, so will there aways be a need for diesel minibuses?

 

[MasterSpenny]

Is the Streetlite still available?

On wrightbus.com, the menu where it shows the types currently in production shows the StreetLite, so yes it would still be available, it’s just that nobody has ordered it for a while now.

 

[Edvid]

What is the daily mileage of a rural minibus? Would an EV be able to undertake a full day's schedule, so will there aways be a need for diesel minibuses?

As an example, here's Andrew Pursey's POV from December 2022:

In Suffolk, bus operator Border Bus, keen to go along the zero emission road, is finding itself playing a waiting game. The Beccles-based company was set up in 2013 and now operates a mixed fleet of some 25 double and single deck buses. Managing Director Andrew Pursey says that technology has improved considerably over recent years but that the issue of range continues to raise its head.

“We operate a number of rural services, some of which cover up to 250 miles a day,” he explains. “That would place existing electric vehicles (EV) at the edge of their range. I don’t want to have to bring buses back into the depot for a charge. There’s no doubt that the volatility of fuel prices, combined with the environmental benefits, makes going down the EV route attractive. But for this to work for us we need external funding, whether that comes via ZEBRA, DfT or the local authority. We’ve had long discussions with Suffolk County Council to look at what the options are. But just at the moment, range limitations means we don’t feel the time is right to pursue funding. However, as battery technology continues to improve, I will certainly be supporting additional ZEBRA funding in the years to come.”

Andrew notes that any external funding needs to pay for the whole package of vehicle and infrastructure.

“Smaller operators simply can’t afford the upfront infrastructure cost,” he says. “Yes, the savings in diesel and maintenance will be there, but that initial outlay won’t be recovered for say 10 or 15 years. That’s hardly an attractive proposition.”

Recent trade press coverage of how the EV charging infrastructure is being introduced in Scotland has caught Andrew’s attention.

“I’ve seen that an operator in Scotland is opening up its EV chargers to other vehicle fleets,” he says. “Once the main fleet is out on the road, HGV and van operators can use the facilities. I can see us becoming a local charging hub for vans and cars. We would need to ensure the external funding covered 100% for us, but then we open it up. It’s a partnership approach, which may prove attractive to avoid every individual fleet operator going its own way.

“At the moment I don’t feel confident in battery life. We hear that batteries keep their full charge for a number of years before starting to degrade. But what does that mean for range? I appreciate we would have all of that data as part of the implementation programme, but for rural operations, often with longer route mileage, it’s an important factor.”

Looking ahead, how does Andrew see the future?

“Now that battery range is improving I remain keen to push Suffolk County Council along the ZEBRA route,” he says. “I’ve not yet looked at the issue of ensuring we have the necessary power supply. That will come as part of the EV project. But in the meantime I’m considering trialling an EV bus. I’m keen to gauge public reaction and to see what our drivers think, although based on the experience of other operators, I’m expecting positive responses. When it comes, and it will, it will be a step change from diesel, and a move with the times.”

Electrification and the smaller bus operator - routeone

With ZEBRA funding heading the way of larger bus operators, the route to electrification for smaller businesses is less clear.

www.route-one.net

 

[pm2304877]

So Optare is now SWITCH?

Another older name is returning to bus building so it appears.
It seems that the original German name is returning 50 years after the Fleetline production was moved to Leyland so Coventry could manufacture British Leyland cars (oh dear).
I have seen the original name after Gottlieb Daimler is being used but are they related to Mercedes?

These Daimlers are pronounced (DIME-LER), similar to London or Australian accents.

Are they making a comeback?

I have looked up the company on the web but I am confused. Buses come under Daimler Truck and Bus but the Citaro is still advertised as Mercedes-Benz .

 

[Blindtraveler]

I agree, and what is significant about the 60 that Stagecoach have ordered is they are all the slim version (which I think is 2.33m rather than 2.5 or 2.55m)

I suspect that means they will go on rural routes, or ones with medieval street layouts, where cost of electric bus can't be justified.

I would not be surprised in ADLs proposed 100EV is more than double the price of slim solos

And a lesser offering in terms of quality I suspect not to mention much more limited range, some of the current deployment of modern day solo both with stagecoach and a whole host of independence are on long rambling countryside routes where the same bus and driver or two drivers are basically out on it for the whole of a fairly short service day but with potentially too or three runs and those runs could be very high mileage or extremely mixed in terms of terrain covered, lots of hills and periods of fast running I suspect

I always said there was a use case for some diesel buses still being built and whilst I had no time for the original solo, the REdesign and later evolution of it as the solo sr kept going through phases of slow but gradual improvement for me and some of the later builds before production ended were really rather special I thought in terms of what was being produced especially in comparison to other products like the e200 or the streetlite which as far as I'm aware is no longer available, thanking the good lord for small mercies

 

[GusB]

So Optare is now SWITCH?

Yes, and has been for some time now.

Another older name is returning to bus building so it appears.
It seems that the original German name is returning 50 years after the Fleetline production was moved to Leyland so Coventry could manufacture British Leyland cars (oh dear).
I have seen the original name after Gottlieb Daimler is being used but are they related to Mercedes?

These Daimlers are pronounced (DIME-LER), similar to London or Australian accents.

Are they making a comeback?

Don't confuse British Daimler with the German concern.

Briefly, Mercedes' parent company was Daimler-Benz and has gone through a few incarnations. It was Daimler Chrysler for a while then Daimler AG after the Chrysler part was divested. Since then, Daimler Truck, of which Daimler Bus is a subsidiary, has been spun off into a separate company and Daimler AG is now Mercedes-Benz AG. Presumably there's some kind of licensing agreement between the two parties to use the Mercedes name and other trademarks.

 

[pm2304877]

The British Daimler name vanished in the 1970s from buses with the production moved to Lancashire. Not much room for confusion there!

 

[Goldfish62]

So Optare is now SWITCH?

The name changed in 2020.

 

[Beemax]

The name changed in 2020.

But the diesel buses will still be branded Optare.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I much prefer Optare.

 

[IPreferVeCarNw]

I've always wanted to know what patents Volvo inherited from the Leyland buyout?

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

So as of last week I just had my first drive of a Mellor Strata Ultra, according to the online info I can find it has a 2.1ltr diesel with 163hp and Mercedes own 7-speed auto, pretty much the same that can be found in some of there previous models cars.

Can’t say I’m super enthusiastic with the way they drive compared even to the competition such as the Optare Solo.

My main gripe was the gearbox, smooth enough but far to keen to downshift or holding gears when not needed, allowing the engine roaring to 2500/3000rpm when in actual fact for smooth progress it makes for a rather noisy experience up front.

I can understand this on hills of course but for generally flat roads half-accelorator at 2000rpm is fine for an upshift, I manage to realise this as the paddles on the steering wheel for the gearbox can force an upshift at 2000rpm on the flat with a half-foot, importantly it keeps the travelling much more relaxed and noticeable quieter, I’m surprised that Mercedes hasn’t understood this when the Sprinter chassis was created with an Auto Box.

It is a heavy vehicle for a 2.1 diesel with only 163hp, but still.

 

[Blindtraveler]

That is certainly very interesting,

I know that this vehicle is a bit of a Marmite one in many respects and that some operators really don't like whilst others such as Prentice of Haddington are clearly very satisfied as they've just added a fourth one to their fleet. Personally my biggest problem with a lot of these van conversion type arrangements is that they serve as a very stark reminder that I really should lose quite a bit of weight as the entrances are often rather narrow!

 

[MasterSpenny]

The name changed in 2020.

But aren’t the 21 plate MetroDeckers (Go Ahead London and RATP examples) Optare branded?

 

[WibbleWobble]

If I recall correctly, the company changed name but there was a period where all output was still badged as Optare. This was subsequently narrowed down to just diesel vehicles being Optare badged, and electrics being Switch badged.

 

[Edvid]

Looks like the first Enviro400EV integral has left the factory - teaser linked below:

⚡ Not long now... #LeadingtheZEvolution | By Alexander DennisFacebook

⚡ Not long now... #LeadingtheZEvolution

www.facebook.com

Apparently it visited RATP's Fulwell garage today (see Tangytango Proboards).

 

[Ksp]

Looks like the first Enviro400EV integral has left the factory - teaser linked below:

⚡ Not long now... #LeadingtheZEvolution | By Alexander DennisFacebook

⚡ Not long now... #LeadingtheZEvolution

www.facebook.com

Apparently it visited RATP's Fulwell garage today (see Tangytango Proboards).

Hope E100EV turns out better then 200s! First Glasgow only bought them 1.5 years ago and they're already falling apart, I don't know if they are just cheap, poor quality buses or if first is being exceptionally incompetent as ever where most buses I see on the 9 are geminis and mmcs

 

[Goldfish62]

Hope E100EV turns out better then 200s! First Glasgow only bought them 1.5 years ago and they're already falling apart, I don't know if they are just cheap, poor quality buses or if first is being exceptionally incompetent as ever where most buses I see on the 9 are geminis and mmcs

By falling apart I presume you mean the usual ADL squeaks and rattles?

The first E200 EVs in London are now around seven years old and still appear to be going strong.

 

[Jordan Adam]

By falling apart I presume you mean the usual ADL squeaks and rattles?

The first E200 EVs in London are now around seven years old and still appear to be going strong.

Stagecoach Bluebird have already had to completely replace the motors on quite a number of their Enviro400EVs a number of which were under 6 months old at the time. Albeit this is also likely in part down to the types of routes they use them on...

The Enviro400EVs are limited to 42mph to prevent "over speeding", however on long downhill sections of road due to their weight they're able to get significantly above this speed. One place of note is Tyrebagger on the A96 where on the downhill sections its quite common for them to get up to 60MPH, so it perhaps isn't a surprise that the motors are failing quite frequently. The most recent example being 84068 which has been off since the 14th of October after it failed on the A96 near Thainstone.

 

[Goldfish62]

Stagecoach Bluebird have already had to completely replace the motors on quite a number of their Enviro400EVs a number of which were under 6 months old at the time. Albeit this is also likely in part down to the types of routes they use them on...

The Enviro400EVs are limited to 42mph to prevent "over speeding", however on long downhill sections of road due to their weight they're able to get significantly above this speed. One place of note is Tyrebagger on the A96 where on the downhill sections its quite common for them up to 60MPH, so it perhaps isn't a surprise that the motors are failing quite frequently. The most recent example being 84068 which has been off since the 14th of October after it failed on the A96 near Thainstone.

Interesting. Suggests they're not actually suitable for the routes they're employed on.

If they're limited to 42 why are they being allowed to do 60 downhill? Do similar to a VR or Atlantean and similarly bad things would also happen!

The Volvo BZL has a two speed gearbox so maybe that's more suited to higher speeds.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Interesting. Suggests they're not actually suitable for the routes they're employed on.

The short answer is they aren't. There's 35 of them in the fleet at Aberdeen but only around 25 duties on the "city" routes. So they frequently stray on much longer routes that they're not at all suitable for not only because of their low top speed but also because of their poor range.

If they're limited to 42 why are they being allowed to do 60 downhill? Do similar to a VR or Atlantean and similarly bad things would also happen!

The limiter only stops the motors propelling the bus past 42mph, it also brings up an "overspeed warning" on the dashboard. On downhill sections they're able to get above that speed purely through momentum.

The Volvo BZL has a two speed gearbox so maybe that's more suited to higher speeds.

I'm sure i read they're suitable for 60mph running.

The Yutong TCe12s that Ember have seem to sit quite happily at 62mph.

 

[Goldfish62]

The limiter only stops the motors propelling the bus past 42mph, it also brings up an "overspeed warning" on the dashboard. On downhill sections they're able to get above that speed purely through momentum.

That's even worse. Willfully ignoring the overspeed warning and breaking the bus as a result.

 

[computerSaysNo]

That's even worse. Willfully ignoring the overspeed warning and breaking the bus as a result.

I was going to comment this too. The manufacturer should have allowed the speed limiter to use regenerative braking so that the vehicle can never exceed the maximum speed. Presumably this is the maximum speed the vehicle has been safety tested to and the maximum speed it can legally travel on a public road?
I'd be pulling up drivers for both ignoring the plated maximum speed and ignoring the overspeed warning.

But then I'm autistic so maybe that view isn't shared by others.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Again my point is proven, ADL just build rubbish but I won't care in carry on, it's off topic for this thread

 

[bobdoe]

Even though it's off-topic I agree Dennis buses are a joke.