Bus operators decide to have additional Bank Holiday

[northwichcat]

As Boxing Day falls on a Saturday and most people don't work on Saturdays it means Monday 28th December is a substitute Bank Holiday.

However, in my area it seems operators are operating to the following:
December 25 & 26 - No services
December 27 - Sunday operation (on routes where one exists)
December 28 - Bank Holiday operation (on routes where one exists)
December 29/30/31 - Saturday service with early finish on the 31st
January 1 - No services

Surely if they're suspending a usual Saturday service on the 26th, they should as a minimum be running a Saturday service on the 28th?

 

[Stan Drews]

As Boxing Day falls on a Saturday and most people don't work on Saturdays it means Monday 28th December is a substitute Bank Holiday.

However, in my area it seems operators are operating to the following:
December 25 & 26 - No services
December 27 - Sunday operation (on routes where one exists)
December 28 - Bank Holiday operation (on routes where one exists)
December 29/30/31 - Saturday service with early finish on the 31st
January 1 - No services

Surely if they're suspending a usual Saturday service on the 26th, they should as a minimum be running a Saturday service on the 28th?

Not following your logic!
Mon 28th is a holiday, with most people that normally work Mon-Fri therefore on holiday, so they have presumably reduced the service level to what they perceive to be the likely demand.

 

[northwichcat]

Not following your logic!
Mon 28th is a holiday, with most people that normally work Mon-Fri therefore on holiday, so they have presumably reduced the service level to what they perceive to be the likely demand.

What I'm saying is Monday 28th should logically have a Saturday service, if the operator decides to operate no services on Saturday 26th (which isn't a Bank Holiday this year due to being on a Saturday.) Instead they've decided to treat the 28th as a 3rd Christmas Bank Holiday when it's replacing the one on the 26th.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Same here. No Boxing Day buses and I'll need to get to the hospital today.

 

[extendedpaul]

This applies to Royal Mail too. Usually two day break December 25 and 26. If both weekdays normal service resumes on 27 December,

This year no service December 25, 26 or 28.

 

[overthewater]

If 25 or 26 falls on a weekend then the following Monday because the next bank holiday.

IE The driver want to the full entitlement, which to be fair should be the case.

 

[northwichcat]

If 25 or 26 falls on a weekend then the following Monday because the next bank holiday.

IE The driver want to the full entitlement, which to be fair should be the case.

I'm not sure what you're getting at as your sentences are a bit fragmented.

The Monday Bank Holiday is instead of one on the Saturday, as it always is under those circumstances, it's not an extra one as some people who work 5 days out of 7 always seem to think.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Bus operators are pretty much free to do whatever they care to do.

 

[hantsman1205]

Stagecoach in Hampshire are running today, albeit a Sunday service, Sunday 27th is running as is Monday as well. They wouldn't want to lose money :-x

 

[THarris123]

Well First in Bristol and Bath didn't run bus services on Christmas Day only. Boxing Day and New Years Day are special timetables (which are both local and a couple of country services - the most profitable routes basically). I think that is a very good idea. Personally I would have no service Christmas Day and a public holiday/special timetable on 26th/28th/1st. I think that's perfectly reasonable.

 

[ashworth]

My local bus company did not run any buses on Christmas Day and are not doing so on New Years Day, but that is to be expected. They are basically running a Sunday service on Boxing Day and on 27th and 28th December. That is ok for hose who live on main core routes in urban areas but if, as I do you live in on a route that does not have a Sunday service that means no buses for 4 days.
Unfortunately a very large number of services these days, even on some quite busy routes, do not have a Sunday service, therefore an increasing number of routes have no services at holiday times.

 

[richw]

By the OPs logic next year he will be expecting buses on Christmas Day as that falls over a weekend?

 

[Bookd]

London, of course, is different as usual. No buses on Christmas Day but otherwise;
Saturday service on 24th
Sunday service on 26th and 27th
Saturday service 28th - 31st
Enhanced overnight service 31st
Sunday service 1st

 

[Bletchleyite]

Boxing Day is less important to Scotland, though.

 

[Andyh82]

The special Boxing Day service now provided in West Yorkshire is now in some cases better than a Sunday service, so there was actually a better service today than over the next two days.

I'm guessing what the OP is getting at is that as the Bank Holiday on Monday is only there to make up the days for Mon-Fri workers. If you are a 5 days in 7 worker, like public transport workers are, you are actually getting Boxing Day twice.

The argument being, on one of these Bank Holidays in lieu, shouldn't a Saturday service be provided, like it will be the rest of next week?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

By the OPs logic next year he will be expecting buses on Christmas Day as that falls over a weekend?

I think the OP's logic is flawed. It is now normal practice to give Bus Drivers 28 days holiday per year rather than 20 days plus bank holidays.

Also most large companies that operate a rota'd holiday system also schedule more winter holidays than normal over xmas and new year knowing that they will have a much lower staffing requirement and then adjust their rotas to take account of the 2 or 3 days of shut down.

 

[northwichcat]

By the OPs logic next year he will be expecting buses on Christmas Day as that falls over a weekend?

Christmas Day and Boxing Day are not seen as normal days or even normal Bank Holidays for public transport.

However, it's not by 'my logic' that there's always 2 Bank Holidays for Christmas and Boxing Day and never 3 Bank Holidays that's a fact but some people like to see lieu days as additional Bank Holidays.

If you read what I've actually written I've suggested the 28th should see a Saturday service, given the Saturday service was suspended on the 26th. So surely if you were trying to guess what I'd suggest for next year it would be no service on the 25th (which is a Sunday) and a Sunday service on the 27th instead. However, as a Sunday service is usually the same as a Bank Holiday service while a Saturday service is not it's a very different scenario for next year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the OP's logic is flawed. It is now normal practice to give Bus Drivers 28 days holiday per year rather than 20 days plus bank holidays.

I get the impression there's some bus drivers posting on here would want an additional day off around Christmas and are arguing my logic is flawed because they want that extra day off. I'm not arguing what driver's holiday entitlement should be but what service operators should provide, so your response is flawed.

The last Labour government made a change to legislation so that instead of the legal minimum holiday allowance for full time workers being 20 days excluding Bank Holidays, it became 28 days including Bank Holidays. That made it fairer for people who work 5 days a week but don't work Mondays.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Christmas Day and Boxing Day are not seen as normal days or even normal Bank Holidays for public transport.

However, it's not by 'my logic' that there's always 2 Bank Holidays for Christmas and Boxing Day and never 3 Bank Holidays that's a fact but some people like to see lieu days as additional Bank Holidays.

If you read what I've actually written I've suggested the 28th should see a Saturday service, given the Saturday service was suspended on the 26th. So surely if you were trying to guess what I'd suggest for next year it would be no service on the 25th (which is a Sunday) and a Sunday service on the 27th instead. However, as a Sunday service is usually the same as a Bank Holiday service while a Saturday service is not it's a very different scenario for next year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I get the impression there's some bus drivers posting on here would want an additional day off around Christmas and are arguing my logic is flawed because they want that extra day off. I'm not arguing what driver's holiday entitlement should be but what service operators should provide, so your response is flawed.

The last Labour government made a change to legislation so that instead of the legal minimum holiday allowance for full time workers being 20 days excluding Bank Holidays, it became 28 days including Bank Holidays. That made it fairer for people who work 5 days a week but don't work Mondays.

there are so many levels where your argument is flawed... or should I say misguided. It isn't bus drivers who angle for an extra day off it is the general public that want that.

if Xmas day and Boxing day fall on a weekday then the usual pattern is that no-one will want travel on those 2 days, but there will be enough demand between boxing day and new year to provide a saturday service on all other days (sun excepted of course)

Now when xmas day or boxing day fall on a weekend people don't think to themselves "it's the weekend so it's not a bank holiday so I will have a normal day". quite the opposite...the country shuts down for the weekend... then the mon-fri working population have a further 1 or 2 days off for the bank holiday(s). The fact that most of the working population are off work those 2 days suppresses demand to the point where a Sunday service is the most that is needed to meet demand.

Any reputable company will adjust their rotas/ holidays etc to make maximum use of staff at minimum cost.

 

[carlberry]

Christmas Day and Boxing Day are not seen as normal days or even normal Bank Holidays for public transport.

However, it's not by 'my logic' that there's always 2 Bank Holidays for Christmas and Boxing Day and never 3 Bank Holidays that's a fact but some people like to see lieu days as additional Bank Holidays.

If you read what I've actually written I've suggested the 28th should see a Saturday service, given the Saturday service was suspended on the 26th. So surely if you were trying to guess what I'd suggest for next year it would be no service on the 25th (which is a Sunday) and a Sunday service on the 27th instead. However, as a Sunday service is usually the same as a Bank Holiday service while a Saturday service is not it's a very different scenario for next year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I get the impression there's some bus drivers posting on here would want an additional day off around Christmas and are arguing my logic is flawed because they want that extra day off. I'm not arguing what driver's holiday entitlement should be but what service operators should provide, so your response is flawed.

Most services are registered with VOSA now specifiing that they dont operate on Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Years Day plus Easter, then detail what happens on bank holidays and, mostly, that's what will have operated. Monday is a bank holiday so would never justify Saturday levels of service. Whilst drivers might want an additional day off they'll only get the ones that are agreed in their contract and additional days of none operation just make it easier for the company to schedule in the lieu days for the bank holiday cover.

 

[northwichcat]

The fact that most of the working population are off work those 2 days suppresses demand to the point where a Sunday service is the most that is needed to meet demand.

Monday is a bank holiday so would never justify Saturday levels of service.

For my local area that is very untrue. I've seen and been on overcrowded Northern Rail services on Bank Holidays on numerous occasions when Northern are running a normal weekday service, yet bus services in my local area are non-existent on Sundays and Bank Holidays. It almost seems like more people go to the towns/cities which the trains go to on Bank Holidays because they can't get to the towns/cities where the buses usually go.

Also some people can't believe rail services are mainly shut down on the 26th December when so many people want to get to/from sporting events, the sales and to return home after visiting relatives for Christmas.

Maybe in your areas you usually get a frequent bus service on a Saturday and an hourly bus service on Sundays but in mine it's usually an hourly service on Saturdays and no service on Sundays, so the Sunday service does not meet the Bank Holiday demand. Imagine you had a friend/relative in your local hospital over Christmas and you don't have a car or anyone able to give you a lift. For someone in my town due to the lack of a Sunday/BH bus that would mean you'd either have to spend £25 on a taxi to get to the hospital otherwise you can't visit them between 24th and the 29th December.

 

[hantsman1205]

For my local area that is very untrue. I've seen and been on overcrowded Northern Rail services on Bank Holidays on numerous occasions when Northern are running a normal weekday service, yet bus services in my local area are non-existent on Sundays and Bank Holidays. It almost seems like more people go to the towns/cities which the trains go to on Bank Holidays because they can't get to the towns/cities where the buses usually go.

Also some people can't believe rail services are mainly shut down on the 26th December when so many people want to get to/from sporting events, the sales and to return home after visiting relatives for Christmas.

Maybe in your areas you usually get a frequent bus service on a Saturday and an hourly bus service on Sundays but in mine it's usually an hourly service on Saturdays and no service on Sundays, so the Sunday service does not meet the Bank Holiday demand. Imagine you had a friend/relative in your local hospital rover Christmas and you don't have a car or anyone able to give you a lift. For someone in my town due to the lack of a Sunday/BH bus that would mean you'd either have to spend £25 on a taxi to get to the hospital otherwise you can't visit them between 24th and the 29th December.

So your bus service didn't run on the 24th and won't run on the 29th?

 

[northwichcat]

So your bus service didn't run on the 24th and won't run on the 29th?

24th - last day you could do a hospital visit, 29th - next day you can do a hospital visit, no visits by bus possible inbetween.

 

[nottinghamcity]

London, of course, is different as usual. No buses on Christmas Day but otherwise;
Saturday service on 24th
Sunday service on 26th and 27th
Saturday service 28th - 31st
Enhanced overnight service 31st
Sunday service 1st

Apart from the 24th being a modified weekday service (early finish) that seems similar to Nottingham

 

[richw]

First Kernow in Cornwall operating as follows:

Christmas Eve Thur 24 Dec: school vacation timetable. However most last buses will operate much earlier than normal.

Please click here to view details of last journeys: http://firstkernow.co.uk/pdfs/xmastt/lastbuses.pdf

Christmas Day Fri 25 Dec: No service

Boxing Day Sat 26 Dec: Special timetables will operate on the following routes only:-
Service U1: Falmouth – Truro http://firstkernow.co.uk/pdfs/xmastt/u1.pdf
Service 5: Newlyn – Penzance http://firstkernow.co.uk/pdfs/xmastt/5.pdf
Service 17B: Penzance – Marazion – St Ives http://firstkernow.co.uk/pdfs/xmastt/17b.pdf
Service 18: Penzance – Hayle – Camborne – Redruth – Truro http://firstkernow.co.uk/pdfs/xmastt/18.pdf
Service 27: St Austell – Truro http://firstkernow.co.uk/pdfs/xmastt/27.pdf
Services 91 and 93: Newquay – Truro http://firstkernow.co.uk/pdfs/xmastt/91-93.pdf
(please click on the service above to view the timetable)

All other routes will not run on this date.

Sun 27 Dec: Normal Sunday timetable

Bank Holiday Mon 28 Dec: Sunday timetable. However the public holiday timetable will run for service 101 (Eden Project – St Austell) – please see the timetable section to view the timetables.

Tues 29 – Wed 30 Dec: Saturday timetable, except the normal Mon - Fri timetable will run for:
Service 66: Penryn – Truro
Service 101: Luxulyan – St Austell via Eden Project
Park for Truro services

New Year’s Eve Thur 31 Dec: Saturday timetable, except the normal Mon - Fri timetable will run for:
Service 66: Penryn – Truro
Service 101: Luxulyan – St Austell via Eden Project
Park for Truro services

Also most last buses will operate much earlier than normal

Please click here to view details of last journeys: http://firstkernow.co.uk/pdfs/xmastt/lastbuses.pdf

New Year’s Day Friday 1 January: No service. However the public holiday timetable will run for service 101 (Eden Project – St Austell) Please see the timetable section to view the timetables.

Normal service resumes from Saturday 2 January 2016

 

[Kuyoyo]

Apart from the 24th being a modified weekday service (early finish) that seems similar to Nottingham

In the North East:
24th: Stagecoach and Go North East ran Saturday services (Stagecoach in Newcastle operated a slightly modified weekday/Saturday combined timetable on their 22/22X service, and Teesside ran the normal Thursday timetable on the Council-funded 794 morning run and ASDA Free Bus), Arriva ran normal Weekday Service
25th: No service
26th: Go North East had every main depot open (Hexham, Crook and Peterlee were the only depots not open), running services listed here - the later journeys were paid for by Newcastle United. Stagecoach Newcastle were operating their services 1, 7, 10/ 11, 12, 22, 30/ 31, 36, 38, 39/ 40, 62/ 63, 100, X47 and X88 only from their Walkergate depot between 1000 and 1800 only. Sunderland operated their services 3, 4, 10/11, 13, 16, 20 and 23 only between 1000 - 1800, while South Shields operated their services 1, 2, 10, 11, E2 and E6 for the same length of time. All on special timetables. Arriva didn't operate
27th: Normal Sunday service
28th: All the big three are running a Saturday service
29th/30th: Saturday service
31st: Saturday service with the same early finishing times as 24th

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

EYMS did a close of service at 8pm on Christmas Eve although they did provide an extra service 34 due to a breakdown... No service Christmas Day or New Years Day

 

[ooo]

EYMS did a close of service at 8pm on Christmas Eve although they did provide an extra service 34 due to a breakdown... No service Christmas Day or New Years Day

Here in Bristol on Christmas Eve First buses kept running until 02:00 (the early hours of Christmas Day).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Clearly, in the absence of local authority support, companies have to take a call on what will make money or not (as it has been the case for the last 29 years).

Some are dipping their toe in the water (like First South West) in terms of Boxing Day and the like. Others are old hands at it, whilst others are rather reticent (e.g. I'd be surprised if Blyth to Newcastle couldn't sustain a Boxing Day service from Arriva).

However, there's no right to a bus service. If the OP thinks there should be (a service not a right), then is it a) the local firm are missing a trick or b) there just isn't the commercial logic? If a) applies, write to the operator and if b) applies, contact your LA.

 

[richw]

Clearly, in the absence of local authority support, companies have to take a call on what will make money or not (as it has been the case for the last 29 years).

Some are dipping their toe in the water (like First South West) in terms of Boxing Day and the like. Others are old hands at it, whilst others are rather reticent (e.g. I'd be surprised if Blyth to Newcastle couldn't sustain a Boxing Day service from Arriva).

However, there's no right to a bus service. If the OP thinks there should be (a service not a right), then is it a) the local firm are missing a trick or b) there just isn't the commercial logic? If a) applies, write to the operator and if b) applies, contact your LA.

Last year there were volunteers preserved buses operating free services on several of the routes in Cornwall, this year First South West provided a commercial service on those routes. I guess the preserved buses being operated were successful?

 

[carlberry]

Last year there were volunteers preserved buses operating free services on several of the routes in Cornwall, this year First South West provided a commercial service on those routes. I guess the preserved buses being operated were successful?

Preserved buses on free services dont really prove anything. Some people come out because they're old buses, some because it's free. Very few are there because they actually need a bus service. Otherwise Stagecoach would have made a mint in Winchester last new Years Day!