madannie77
Member
Sheffield buses were never exact fare. The Videmat system was installed on some buses (by no means all) and passengers had the choice, when boarding, of using the Videmat machine or paying the driver
"Selly Oak, please" - must have been a Birmingham University student.I believe that in the early days of fareboxes in the West Midlands, passengers would often get on, offer their fare to the driver and say where they wanted to go (e.g. "Selly Oak, please"), and the driver would point to the fare hopper and say "In there, mate," and the passenger would think this meant they had to speak into the farebox so they would lean over the hopper and say "Selly Oak, please" (or wherever they wanted to go).
"Selly Oak, please" - must have been a Birmingham University student.
Birmingham University is in Edgbaston although many students do live in the Selly Oak area. Other people go to Selly Oak. I even went there myself this morning to Curry's to take back a toaster which I bought last month which managed to blow the main fuse in my house yesterday.
Birmingham folk would have had more sense than speak into the coin hopper. I'm sort of allowed to make fun of Birmingham students - I was one for a year - and students (in the main) are notorious for being unprepared for their new surroundings (not necessarily all their fault).Birmingham University is in Edgbaston although many students do live in the Selly Oak area. Other people go to Selly Oak. I even went there myself this morning to Curry's to take back a toaster which I bought last month which managed to blow the main fuse in my house yesterday.
I quite agree. When I was living in Birmingham, students from the student accommodation on Bristol Road South (Manor Farm?) would either get off in near the Old Varsity Tavern or at the gates depending on which part of the University they had to get to. The Old Varsity Tavern area itself used to be full of student accommodation, and that is definitely Selly Oak as, I would say, was the Gun Barrels. I'm not sure that you can cut up from the OVT now. Anyone coming on the 11 would also get off at Selly Oak.When I went there, admittedly 40 years ago, the Bristol Road side of the University was considered as Selly Oak as far as I remember.
I think Lothian Buses used to do this - you had to cash them at their transport offices, which must have been a bit of a pain. Not sure if they still do this.
Birmingham folk would have had more sense than speak into the coin hopper. I'm sort of allowed to make fun of Birmingham students - I was one for a year - and students (in the main) are notorious for being unprepared for their new surroundings (not necessarily all their fault).
I was always amazed at the willingness of students to spend three years of their lives at a place they had never been to and had no idea about. To be honest institutions could help as well, though (not all do although it is better now). All non-local students on the courses I managed were sent a copy of the timetables for routes passing the institution, together with fare information (exact fare operation), application form for termly ticket, details of nearest station etc. Why? No excuse for lateness.Was pretty basic stuff for some of my fellow students.
"Have you even looked at a map of where you are in the city you are now living?"
"No"
On the use of exact fare machines remember filling up the hopper of a Nottm City Transport bus with 1/2p coins just before they went out of circulation - pretty certain at the speed the driver issued the ticket he did not count the coins.
Yes, one good thing about exact-fare buses is that they are a good place to get rid of loads of small change!
I seem to recall that a few years ago when the flat fare on Lothian Buses was £1 (and when it was £1.50) they actually had signs on the buses saying £1 and 50p coins preferred - presumably this was to make accounting simpler.
With effect from 31st March 2019, Ipswich Buses will only accept the correct fare on Town services numbered 1 to 16.
Credit vouchers will not be accepted or issued on any buses after this date.
Passengers with a credit voucher will have until Sunday 28th April 2019 to redeem their credit voucher(s) from the Enquiry Office only. Anything after this date will not be valid.
All our Country services will continue to give out change.
I believe that the current list of exact fare bus operators is as follows below:Mod note: this and the following posts were in a new thread. I've moved them here as it was the most recent discussion on the subject.
See also: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/exact-fare-only-buses.162418/
Apologies if this has been done before, I couldn’t find anything using the search function apart from a thread discussing operators who adopted an ‘exact fare’ policy due to Covid.
I’m trying to compile a list of operators who routinely use fareboxes (or vaults or hoppers depending on where you’re from). I’d also be interested to know if there are any operators who give change on certain services but not others, or different garages within the same company operating different polices.
Here’s the ones I know of so far:
Cardiff Bus
Dunn’s Coaches
E&M Horsburgh
East Coast Buses
First Glasgow
First Scotland East (Livingston depot only)
Lothian Buses (excluding Airlink)
Lothian Country
Newport Transport
Personally I think in the day and age of e-tickets and contactless payments more operators should adopt an exact fare policy. I know many people will disagree, but I think the process of issuing change is time consuming and makes journeys unnecessarily long. As an example, the length of time buses on the First Scotland East service X38 take to serve bus stops within Edinburgh is noticeably and considerably longer than the other services within the city which are ‘exact fare’. There is of course the issue of people underpaying but I suspect this is balanced (probably exceeded, in fact) out by ones who overpay and don’t receive change. As a driver, having an exact fact fare policy has a number of advantages. From a security perspective having no contact with the money and it being locked away in a vault is obviously preferable. When I worked with Stagecoach West Scotland we would often be required to walk from the relief point at George Square through the city centre to Buchanan Bus Station in order to get a bus back to the depot, sometimes late at night, carrying hundreds of pounds of takings. Clearly a safety issue. It also gives us greater flexibility to let people travel if they are maybe a few pence short of the fare, as we know that underpayments won’t be deducted from our wages.
No worries. One final one to add to the list is Xplore Dundee who are also exact fare. I was including them with National Express but i just remembered now that they have been bought out so are no longer a National Express operator.Thank you for the extensive list.
Interesting they have not gone back either. I wonder if they ever will. They do not use fareboxes so it makes no sense for drivers not to give change. Mcgills have just bought Xplore Dundee not that long ago who do use fareboxes so maybe they want their Mcgills operations to go that way too.Mcgill's here in Scotland have had an exact fare policy since the start of Covid and not reversed that discission despite easing Covid restrictions since.
Yes so many bus operators do not give their drivers large enough change floats. Many bus operators have a policy that drivers are not allowed to refuse passengers who only have a large note (except a £50 note) so you get some passengers coming on with a £20 note on purpose as they know there is a large chance they will be let on for free if the driver does not have enough change. Bus operators really need to give their drivers larger change floats.I have always assumed fare boxes were to stop drivers form keeping the money I.E. fiddling.
Not sure where punters imagine drivers can get change from, Arriva gave us 20 quid float which you are supposed to pay in the day you leave ( I kept mine!).
One punter at the start of your shift with a twenty and that's your float gone.
Drivers are required to account for every penny of tickets issued, 1p short and they would take it from your wages. If you paid in a fake £1 coin ( about 1 in 20 of the old pound coins were fake) they would stamp a hole in it, give you it back and take a pound from your wages
I have always assumed fare boxes were to stop drivers form keeping the money I.E. fiddling.
Broadly correct. Many urban operators went for fareboxes simply because when they moved to One Person Operation OPO (or as it was at the time OMO - most staff were men), then there was a view that it would speed up boarding and so the loss of conductors wouldn't be felt so much. There was also the reduction on the amount of extra work placed on drivers, and the security aspect; not so much the issue of fiddling (which could happen with conductors) but that instead of the relative safety of a two man crew, you would have one person who could be robbed.Not necessarily. Think it was often as much about (aiming to) speed up boarding as anything else, and / or making the additional workload as little as possible for drivers on routes as they were converted to OPO (sometimes as an alternative to, sometimes alongside self-service machines over the nearside wheel arch, as in the Videmat mentioned above.)
When it all started, some operators paid one rate for crew drivers, a slightly higher rate for 'farebox / automatic fare collection OPO' and a higher rate still for 'conventional OPO' (and then sometimes with differential rates based on either single or double deck OPO.)
Some operators who did introduce fareboxes when urban OPO became a thing found that overall takings didn't match what they should have been, as drivers weren't too bothered what went in to the box, as no individual driver could be held accountable for what any bus ended up with at the end of the day.
I'm fairly sure that Reading Buses' argument for it (on urban routes) was partly speed, partly driver safety (not sure if it coincided with the move to a depot that's on the fringes of the town centre.)
Arriva went back to giving change months ago last year. This includes all of their operations in the UK. So they are no longer exact fare anywhere.Arriva North West had an exact fare policy during covid (not sure shout now )
I understand why you'd have an exact fare policy in the 1970s/1980s but in the modern world I fail to understand why you'd intentionally make it harder for people to use your bus service by telling them you don't give change. Contactless is a good alternative.I hate the exact fare policy. Thank goodness it is not more common. It is so unfriendly. Whenever i am in an area with a bus operator that uses exact fare i will go out of my way to find an alternative bus route run by a bus operator that gives change. I often do not have the exact fare on me.
TrentBarton have change machines in their depotsBlackpool trams issue conductors with a £30 float and have a change machine in the depot, (similar to the ones found in amusement arcades). I don't know about the buses, this is the only place I know that has any change facility for staff.