Bus route numbers

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by Ken H, 11 Jun 2019.

  1. Statto

    Statto Established Member

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    The current 1 Chester-Liverpool has no relation to the old C1. The 1 has it's origins in the X7 Chester-Liverpool via Ellesmere Port, which was introduced mid 80s as part of the Crosville TownLynx brand.

    Late 80s when Skelhorne Street bus station closed X7 merged with the North Western X37, to become a joint Crosville/North Western X8 Banks-Chester, with a summer Sunday service, which diverted via Chester Zoo numbered X9. X9 was withdrawn mid 90s.

    Late 90s, X8 was split at Liverpool, with Crosville section becoming Chester-Liverpool, a few changes were made including stopping at all stops, & rerouting via Birkenhead bus station, then early 00 Crosville renumbered the X8 to 1, & introduced ALX300s

    Until Merseyrail extended electrification to Chester, the X7/X8 was well used, timed to take round about an hour, original service went via the M53 & Kingsway[Wallasey] tunnel from Hooton to Liverpool, Chester-Liverpool, in those says rail passengers had to change at Hooton so the bus was comparable with the train.

    The C1, Monday to Saturday became operated by Merseybus as 1C Chester-New Brighton[although Sunday service was tendered by Cheshire County Council but as 1 Chester-Hooton], which was a merger from the Merseybus 1 New Brighton-Woodside via Seacombe & C1.

    Merseybus renumbered 10C & diverted via Liscard, then under Arriva renumbered 401 back as 1C via Seacombe.

    Arriva renumbered it to 402 diverted it via Ellesmere Port, before becoming part of a quality bus partnership scheme with joint service with Stagecoach & renumbered to 2, Arriva withdrew the 2 a couple of years ago, Stagecoach solely operate the 2
     
  2. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Wakefield numbers were 1xx.
    8xx routes were 80s minibus routes.
    9xx were summer or night routes.
    Nxx were also night routes.
    Holmfirth had Hx routes and A, B, C, D, E, F which were market days only.
    Worth Valley local routes were M1-M6.
    Hebden Bridge also had Hx routes, Later A-I, now 594-599.
    Ex were Elland local routes.
    Tx were Todmorden local routes
    Wx were Wharfedale (Ilkley/Otley) local routes.

    Keighley Bus company separated the 662-668 at Keighley then dropped the 6 from the 666,667 and 668 creating the 66 and 78A. Many years ago they dropped first the 7 from the 762 (having already dropped the 765 variant), then the 7 from the 760. Then a massive renumbering of the local services a few years ago from 701-719 to K1 to K16 (the K17 and K19 started when they re-won the contracts for the 727 and 729 to Cullingworth - the 719 had become the K9 as there was no 709 at that point). The 663/4/5 become the B3/1/2 (the 663 having been the 500 for a little while).
    Then the 796, 797 and 798 become the 69, 67 and 68 - and a few weeks ago, just the 67.

    Recently council contracts for rural buses use 9xx numbers.

    For some reason in the late 90s there was a contacted evening service between Harrogate and Otley numbered R9. This followed the route of the 653. To my knowledge there were no other R routes anywhere near.
     
  3. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Think research has been undertaken that two digits are easier to remember. Service numbers shouldn't be sacred cows but then again, they shouldn't be changed for the sake of it.

    On the subject of X prefixes (or suffixes), there are firms that use it for cross country or cross city (as with NAT in South Wales) but for many it is simply to denote that it is a quicker version of a standard route (limited stop) rather than some full express route.

    As well as Crosville and Ribble with letter prefixes, Midland Red used them extensively for their local urban networks. Banbury still retains these (like the B5) but they also had S (Shrewsbury), H (Hereford) and W (Worcester) - I'm sure there were more.
     
  4. Statto

    Statto Established Member

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    Going to Keighley i remember mid 90s 662 to 665, 662 think was as current, 663-665 continued beyond Keighley, not sure when they were split at Keighley.

    Sticking with West Yorkshire, West Yorkshire Road Car Company Bradford area was from 650 upwards, with 7xx for the rest of the area. Yorkshire Rider brought West Yorkshire Road Car Company so that's why you had 6xx & 7xx numbers, not sure when they were renumbered.

    I also remember mid 90s, 760 Keighley-Weatherby via Leeds, that was a monster of a route taking well over 2 hours end to end[still quite lengthy Leeds-Keighley], seem to remember evening & Sundays was split at Leeds, before the whole route got split at Leeds with Leeds-Weatherby renumbered 770/771 & extended to Harrogate.
     
  5. Flange Squeal

    Flange Squeal Member

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    In Surrey, there are a number of routes numbered 5xx. These date from a period where council supported services were given 5 prefixes.

    When Countywide Travel (later Fleet Buzz) took over a number of Tillingbourne routes following their demise, they renumbered routes to have a 7 prefix - Farnborough to Farnham 40 became 70, Aldershot to Reading 12 became 72, and Frimley to Church Crookham 13 became 73.

    When Stagecoach bought Fleet Buzz in 2011, a network review a few years later saw routes inherited remembered to join the otherwise lower numbers in the area. 72 became 7 (plus offshoot circular 9), 82 became 8, and 30 became 10. This meant Stagecoach’s Aldershot depot then ran a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 (although the 8 was dropped a year or two ago and 20 re-numbered ‘KITE’).
     
    Last edited: 12 Jun 2019
  6. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

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    I suspect it was a case of providing research to prove the decision you've taken:

    Is it easier to remember lots of new two digit numbers or three digit numbers? The answer is fairly predictable given the way that most people deal with memory tests.

    The question for most bus users however is;
    Is it easier to remember the number you already know (which for most people they've committed to longer term memory) or a new one.
     
  7. geoffk

    geoffk Member

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    528 Halifax - Rochdale was renumbered X58 by Yorkshire Tiger but it is in no way Limited Stop. Before it was 528 it was the 28 for years. TfGM had to change all its bus stop plates to accommodate the new number. PTE-wide route numbering seems to be breaking down; Stagecoach has renumbered all its Wigan routes taken over from First 1 to 10 from various numbers in the 600s. Having two routes with the same number, however far apart, creates difficulties with databases (like two stations with the same name).
     
  8. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    I'd agree with that, however at the same time i think 3 digit numbers are okay. The only thing is i'd avoid 3 digit numbers with prefixes/suffixes, unless it was a National Express / Megabus-esque service whereby a suffix could be used to denote a variation. For example the old Rapson's/Citylink 958 (now the Stagecoach X98/X99) used to have a 958E variation that connected with the Ferry and went to Kirkwall in Orkney.

    The bulk of the Bluebird network got renumbered between 2010 and 2017. Some routes a number of times! Most of the renumbering made sense, however in the case of Elgin it must have been pretty confusing for the locals at the time.

    Here's a full list.
     
  9. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    Just a random example but i'd suspect most of the travelling would find 201/202/203/204 easier to remember than 20/20A/20B/20C!
     
  10. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Amazed that the 343 still runs (even more amazed that I remembered the number rightly!)
    666 to me though will always be a trolleybus from Hammersmith to Edgware, of very long-ago memory. The only occasion I got to use it was when a school friend and myself gained access to Old Oak Common depot and its turntable in the days of steam, my one and only visit ever to a railway depot.
     
  11. Old Yard Dog

    Old Yard Dog Member

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    In the 1960s, Hebble ran through routes from Leeds via Halifax to Rochdale (no. 28) and Burnley (via Blackshaw Edge, no. 15). These were subsequently split at Halifax with the Leeds to Halifax via Odsal section becoming the 508.
     
  12. Typhoon

    Typhoon Member

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    Two journeys a day each way, Monday to Friday go to Rodmersham Green so hanging on.
     
  13. Typhoon

    Typhoon Member

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    You are right, and they reused prefixes so Bromsgrove locals were also Bxx, Sutton Coldfield also Sxx hence the use of some quite high numbers (I think Sutton had something like S76). Just about every garage must have had them - R (Rugby and Redditch), K (Kiddie), E (Evesham), M (Malvern), N (Nuneaton).
     
  14. Mal

    Mal Member

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    The biggest problem is when there are two or more different routes with the same number and they are both operated by the same company! Chester is a perfect example.
     
  15. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    Actually I'd have thought that "Any of the 20s will take you up the Odsall Road" would be easier to remember than "Anything between 201 to 204 will take you up the Odsall Road". (Bear in mind also that the 201-204 would end up as 201, 202, 204 and 217 or something! :lol:
     
  16. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    At one stage, if I recall correctly, there were three different 4s which ran along the same street but had three very different destinations!
     
  17. Andyh82

    Andyh82 Established Member

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    Not sure it was quite like that, it sounds like a report from a tabloid newspaper.

    Someone might as well use the 1-99 range and it might as well have been Leeds
     
  18. SCH117X

    SCH117X Member

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    The 700+ series was also used for Leeds-Otley services.The 760 Keighley-Leeds, now 60, once extended to Wetherby; the section onwards from Leeds was incorporated into a 770 onto Harrogate which was recently renumbered 70 and even more recently to 7 leading to a conflict between two different 7s in Leeds (the First 7 etc series referenced above and the Transdev ex 770). The section from Wetherby to Harrogate had previously been a 78 or 79. Wetherby to Knaresborough was a 88 but at the time of 770 starting got renumbered 780 which it retained through a variety of operators until a few months ago when it became a 8 under Transdev and extended to Harrogate. The 79 onwards from Wetherby to York became a 790 then a 412.
     
  19. Andyh82

    Andyh82 Established Member

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    The 700s were generally WYRCC services at the time when the numbers were introduced except for those that served Bradford which used the Bradford 600s sequence.
     
  20. Ken H

    Ken H Established Member

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    Barton in Nottingham done have numbers. They have route names like 'Calverton Connection'. each route has dedicated buses with a separate livery.
     
  21. Ken H

    Ken H Established Member

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    used to be the 8 when Halifax corporation did it. And it ran from Leeds. King Street, then the Central Bus Station. I did the whole route in the late 70's in a green and orange back loader.
     
  22. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Seem to recall that the 98/99 Leeds to Wetherby were 796-799. Before my time, the 43/44/46 Leeds to York to Brid/Hull became the 743/744/746.

    Oddly, the 36 Leeds to Harrogate wasn’t changed though.
     
  23. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Almost all the Bradford - Keighley buses continued beyond Keighley. 663-5 are now the Bx routes, 666-8 were 3 different routes to Keighley, simplified to the 66 and 78A (which now only runs 2-hourly Skipton - Airedale hospital)

    It was - and evenings and Sundays the hourly connection at Leeds was about 50 minutes.

    In between being the 28 and the 528 (and 527) it was the 568 (and 567) - and many years ago it was the 8, all the way from Rochdale to Leeds (the . The 527/567 went via Mill Bank instead of Ripponden. I remember catching the Yelloway 568 in the 80s before Yorkshire Rider took over.

    For a while the 508 continued past Halifax to the villages of Ripponden and Rishworth, terminating at the hamlet of Commons (alternately with Rishworth) - confusing Leeds locals no end as the destination rarely mentioned via points.
     
  24. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Although the 36A variant has come and gone. The current 36 route is that of the late 90s 36A - the 36 travelled along Kings Road, past my wife's then residence.
     
  25. Ken H

    Ken H Established Member

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    Leeds - Ilkley via Otley never had a number when Sammy Ledgard. Think WYRCC made it the 34. I think the Skiptons went via Guiseley - Dont know when they transferred to the Otley route.
    No services from Bradford to Wharfedale now. used to be buses to Bradford from Ilkley and Otley. Bradford- Otley journey is now a nightmare. Bradford -Ilkley is an easy train ride. No Leeds via Guiseley buses from Ilkley now either.
     
  26. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Does Guiseley on the 737 not count as Wharfedale?

    I do remember there being a bus every 10 minutes from Bradford to Guiseley in the 80s and early 90s (2bph to Ilkley, 2bph to Otley or Harrogate via Otley, 2bph to Leeds). The 33 and 33A every 10 minutes from Leeds were alternately to Ilkley and Otley too.
     
  27. Ken H

    Ken H Established Member

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    It was 36 in the 1960's, but the Ripon - Harrogate was infrequent. It also had some journeys extended to Ripon railway station.
     
  28. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Ripon to Harrogate was also covered by a United service. It was all folded into the 36 I believe.
     
  29. Dai Corner

    Dai Corner Established Member

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    Bristol Omnibus Company's Bristol 'Country' services were numbered 3xx for many years. The only one (?) not have been renumbered and/or prefixed is the 376 Bristol-Wells.

    My favourite set of confusing numbers are Newport Transport's 15 (to Bettws), Stagecoach's 15 to Cwmbran and Pontypool and their X15 to Brynmawr.
     
  30. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Don’t forget the 349 - operated mainly by Abus but with limited First input.
     

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