Bus route numbers

[Jordan Adam]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the trend of Airport services having 7x7 numbers, obviously referencing Boeing's Aircraft range. x00 numbers are also common for Airport routes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the trend of Airport services having 7x7 numbers, obviously referencing Boeing's Aircraft range. x00 numbers are also common for Airport routes.

Bristol Airport has A prefixes (1-5) but then again, First West of England also have prefixes for various places/routes such D (Discover), m (metrobus), T (Thornbury), Y (Yate)

Then, of course, are U prefixes (as in many places). So First has 3 x 1 (Weston, Bath, Bristol), 2 x U1 (Bath and Bristol), A1, D1, m1, T1 and Y1.

 

[SCH117X]

The 33 and 33A every 10 minutes from Leeds were alternately to Ilkley and Otley too.

Were they not 732 and 733s earlier?

Ripon to Harrogate was also covered by a United service. It was all folded into the 36 I believe.

United ran a hourly daytime Mon-Sat X36 between Ripon and Harrogate avoiding Ripley village and using the Ripon Road in Harrogate (as the 36 does today) whereas the hourly 36 did a loop via Skipton Road and Kings Road. After Blazefield acquired Uniteds Ripon depot the X36 was withdrawn and the 36A introduced as daytime extras via Ripon Road. Then the loop was withdrawn shortly after the original 36 Geminis were introduced and all followed the 36A route numbered as 36.

 

[daodao]

Were they not 732 and 733s earlier?

United ran a hourly daytime Mon-Sat X36 between Ripon and Harrogate avoiding Ripley village and using the Ripon Road in Harrogate (as the 36 does today) whereas the hourly 36 did a loop via Skipton Road and Kings Road. After Blazefield acquired Uniteds Ripon depot the X36 was withdrawn and the 36A introduced as daytime extras via Ripon Road. Then the loop was withdrawn shortly after the original 36 Geminis were introduced and all followed the 36A route numbered as 36.

I distinctly remember travelling on a United AS bus on route 36 from Alwoodley Gates to Vicar Lane in the early 1970s; it had come from Ripon and I hadn't been aware until then that the route was not operated solely by WYRCC.

On the general subject of bus route numbers, frequent changes confuse potential passengers. Manchester still has some route numbers dating from the first-generation tramway era, such as 17/41/53/59, as does Leeds (e.g. routes 1 to Lawnswood and 2 to Moortown Corner).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Were they not 732 and 733s earlier?

United ran a hourly daytime Mon-Sat X36 between Ripon and Harrogate avoiding Ripley village and using the Ripon Road in Harrogate (as the 36 does today) whereas the hourly 36 did a loop via Skipton Road and Kings Road. After Blazefield acquired Uniteds Ripon depot the X36 was withdrawn and the 36A introduced as daytime extras via Ripon Road. Then the loop was withdrawn shortly after the original 36 Geminis were introduced and all followed the 36A route numbered as 36.

I remember that well with the X36 being a competition chaser against Challenger service 6!

 

[tbtc]

One that I always like is the central belt habit of putting a prefix number on journeys run under council contract - e.g. the "day" service might be the 59 but the evening service is the 259 despite being run by the same operator (because the council are paying for those journeys and want the public to know about it!). Might be confusing for passengers but it does highlight tendered journeys.

In West Yorkshire, when Metro was set up in the 1970's, Leeds pulled rank and kept its numbers unchanged.

Bradford was forced to add 600 to its numbers, Halifax 500 and Huddersfield 300. Buses in the Wakefield/Heavy Woollen/Castleford areas variously started 100+, 200+ and 400+ but I can't remember the exact details. I think 700+ numbers were used in the Keighley area. However the Keighley bus company quite recently broke ranks and renumbered its Bradford - Thornton - Keighley services simply 67 and 68.

Wakefield numbers were 1xx.
8xx routes were 80s minibus routes.
9xx were summer or night routes.
Nxx were also night routes.
Holmfirth had Hx routes and A, B, C, D, E, F which were market days only.
Worth Valley local routes were M1-M6.
Hebden Bridge also had Hx routes, Later A-I, now 594-599.
Ex were Elland local routes.
Tx were Todmorden local routes
Wx were Wharfedale (Ilkley/Otley) local routes.

Keighley Bus company separated the 662-668 at Keighley then dropped the 6 from the 666,667 and 668 creating the 66 and 78A. Many years ago they dropped first the 7 from the 762 (having already dropped the 765 variant), then the 7 from the 760. Then a massive renumbering of the local services a few years ago from 701-719 to K1 to K16 (the K17 and K19 started when they re-won the contracts for the 727 and 729 to Cullingworth - the 719 had become the K9 as there was no 709 at that point). The 663/4/5 become the B3/1/2 (the 663 having been the 500 for a little while).
Then the 796, 797 and 798 become the 69, 67 and 68 - and a few weeks ago, just the 67.

Recently council contracts for rural buses use 9xx numbers.

For some reason in the late 90s there was a contacted evening service between Harrogate and Otley numbered R9. This followed the route of the 653. To my knowledge there were no other R routes anywhere near.

To add to the Yorkshire numberings, the South Yorkshire version was generally:
1-99: Sheffield local services
100-149: Rotherham local services
150-199: Doncaster local services
200s - services between different towns, including the Dearne Valley area (between Rotherham/ Doncaster/ Barnsley, but also included rural routes like into the Peak District, Dinnington, Penistone
300s: Barnsley local services
400s: services over the border into West/North Yorkshire (i.e. the Castleford area numbers referenced above), also some local Doncaster services (generally those that ran towards the West/North Yorkshire boundaries - e.g. Askern)
700s: Work services (in the days of colliery/ steel works having large numbers of staff all working the same shifts), the "Early Bird" services in Sheffield
900s: Night buses

Stagecoach has renumbered all its Wigan routes taken over from First 1 to 10 from various numbers in the 600s.

My understanding is that the majority of those changes were just removing the "6" at the start, e.g. the 602 became the 2 - which is generally a lot simpler for passengers to understand (1 and 2 are more distinct from each other than 601 is from 602)

Just a random example but i'd suspect most of the travelling would find 201/202/203/204 easier to remember than 20/20A/20B/20C!

Trent renumbered some corridors with decimal points, e.g. the Derby to Bakewell corridor became the 6.1, 6.2 etc (rather than 61/62 etc)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the trend of Airport services having 7x7 numbers, obviously referencing Boeing's Aircraft range. x00 numbers are also common for Airport routes.

Stagecoach have gone the other way in South Yorkshire, replacing the 737 with the X6

Were they not 732 and 733s earlier?

And 736 (plus the "Quickstep" 33)

 

[Dai Corner]

One that I always like is the central belt habit of putting a prefix number on journeys run under council contract - e.g. the "day" service might be the 59 but the evening service is the 259 despite being run by the same operator (because the council are paying for those journeys and want the public to know about it!). Might be confusing for passengers but it does highlight tendered journeys.

The former Avon County Council did that too. For example tendered journeys on the Bristol City service 1 would be 501 and those on the Country service 363 would be 663. I seem to remember distinctive yellow notices explaining which were 'Avon County Council supported services'

 

[Jordan Adam]

Trent renumbered some corridors with decimal points, e.g. the Derby to Bakewell corridor became the 6.1, 6.2 etc (rather than 61/62 etc)

In a earlier post in this thread i listed all the Stagecoach North Scotland (Bluebird) examples of renumbering.
Of note is the 107/109/117/907 which at one point became the X6/7/7A/7B/7C/7S/X7/N7/113/107!

 

[Statto]

Merseyside was another one of those areas that did the same renumberings for tendered services. at d-reg Merseytravel contracted services, were given numbers in the 100 to 250 range, normally plus 100[ie 12/13 tendered services was numbered 112/113], although there were exceptions. The former Ribble L series & Crosville numbers didn't fit into the scheme, so likes of L81, tendered journeys was numbered 151, tendered L3 became 213, Crosville H3 became 143.
It became a little trickier with Merseybus, Merseymini scheme was started in the late 80s, the Merseymini was 5xx numbers so Merseytravel tenderness went to 4xx, 4xx was normally reserved for rapidride routes though.

Main reason Merseytravel renumbered services, was even after d-reg they kept with the cheap fares policy, so fares were lower than the commercial services

Come to think of it, until Arriva took over MTL, & renumbered the services, Merseyside was one of the few areas were the PTE kept local numbers, & that system stayed even after d-reg, although PTE era, rapidride services were numbered 4xx, limited stop 5xx. Rapidride 4xx numbers were still kept by Merseybus who also introduced new rapidride services, but they were short lived.

 

[ashkeba]

Then, of course, are U prefixes (as in many places). So First has 3 x 1 (Weston, Bath, Bristol), 2 x U1 (Bath and Bristol), A1, D1, m1, T1 and Y1.

And it has X1 and X1X!

 

[Statto]

I remember Ribble timesaver routes numbered in the 7xx series, then some got numbered in the Xxx series. West Midlands too started a timesaver brand in the 9xx series.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The former Avon County Council did that too. For example tendered journeys on the Bristol City service 1 would be 501 and those on the Country service 363 would be 663. I seem to remember distinctive yellow notices explaining which were 'Avon County Council supported services'

Avon CC routes were 5** Bristol, 6** Bristol Country, 7** Bath and 8** Weston - some still remain with the 625 in Severn Beach or the 701 in Bath, for example.

They did the same in Cleveland with 5** Hartlepool and Stockton, 6** Middlesbrough and 7** East Cleveland to show they were supported so the 268 Darlington-Stockton-Middlesbrough-Redcar-Saltburn on a Sunday was a 268 for most of it but became the 768 from Redcar to Saltburn.

 

[Dai Corner]

They did the same in Cleveland with 5** Hartlepool and Stockton, 6** Middlesbrough and 7** East Cleveland to show they were supported so the 268 Darlington-Stockton-Middlesbrough-Redcar-Saltburn on a Sunday was a 268 for most of it but became the 768 from Redcar to Saltburn.

That conjures up an image of the driver apologising for the delay at Redcar and explaining why he had to change the number. I wonder if they always bothered?


New sub-thread: Bus services which change number en route!

 

[transmanche]

New sub-thread: Bus services which change number en route!

Arriva NE's X20 (Newcastle-Alnwick) used to run only as far as Amble, changing number from X20 to 20 at Ashington. X20 is now used throughout.

Similarly, for a few years, Arriva NE-operated journeys on the Newcastle-Carlisle route ran as 85 as far as Hexham, changing to 685 for the rest of the way to Carlisle. Stagecoach NW-operated journeys used 685 throughout. They reverted to using 685 throughout when the route was re-launched as 'Cross-Pennine' with its own livery.

 

[SCH117X]

For some reason in the late 90s there was a contacted evening service between Harrogate and Otley numbered R9. This followed the route of the 653. To my knowledge there were no other R routes anywhere near.

Pretty certain it also had an A suffix as well! It was funded through Central Governments Rural Bus Grant and presumably the R number applied to the grant application and with no pre existing service number available to use the grant number got used. It commenced operation under Harrogate & District from 31 Jan 1999 then IIRC Aztecbird and finally Pegasus. It was somewhat odd in that all journeys diverted off the A658 through North Rigton village whereas only a few 653s did so giving the village a better service in the evening than during the daytime. Today both Connexions X52 and Yorkshire Tigers 747, one for the Airport numbered services theme, stick firmly to the A658.

I distinctly remember travelling on a United AS bus on route 36 from Alwoodley Gates to Vicar Lane in the early 1970s; it had come from Ripon and I hadn't been aware until then that the route was not operated solely by WYRCC.

The transfer of the Ripon depot to WYRCC had been proposed in the mid 1970s but finally took place on 27 October 1996 . Blazefield were glad to get hold of all 36 workings as apparently the vast majority of the complaints they received over the service were related to Uniteds workings. The Ripon depot was only leased to Blazefield on a short term basis and thereafter became a Go Kart course for a short while and then, as it remains today, a carpet shop. The 20 minute interval 36/36A service that followed was achieved through making vehicles available as a result of the withdrawal of the X50 York- Knaresborough- Harrogate-Otley- Ilkley-Skipton service
With reference to the 760 extension from Leeds to Wetherby that prior to that occurring in 1992 the Leeds-Wetheby service had operated as a 741.
Source material - "Small is Beautiful - The Story of the AJS Group and Blazefield Holdings, Keith Jenkinson Dec 1999 ISBN 0 907834 42 6

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That conjures up an image of the driver apologising for the delay at Redcar and explaining why he had to change the number. I wonder if they always bothered?

Seem to recall that drivers were generally pretty good at it, surprisingly. Mind you, Cleveland CC were quite anal about it and showing the Boroughbus slipboard in the windscreen.

The transfer of the Ripon depot to WYRCC had been proposed in the mid 1970s but finally took place on 27 October 1996 . Blazefield were glad to get hold of all 36 workings as apparently the vast majority of the complaints they received over the service were related to Uniteds workings. The Ripon depot was only leased to Blazefield on a short term basis and thereafter became a Go Kart course for a short while and then, as it remains today, a carpet shop. The 20 minute interval 36/36A service that followed was achieved through making vehicles available as a result of the withdrawal of the X50 York- Knaresborough- Harrogate-Otley- Ilkley-Skipton service

I was at a "do" with the North East Bus MD (Mike Widmer) just after the sale. They were quite happy to sell as the bus station was up for redevelopment and the depot was existing on the 36 and a load of tenders. H&S were putting on new Volvo B10Bs (I think) on the 36 but United had just one board so they were reluctant to put one decent machine there but no spare. It really was really bad in the early 1990s with United putting out 15 year old Nationals vs. H&D Lynxes. That's before you looked at the X36 that, because of the convoluted vehicle workings at Ripon, could get absolutely anything from a Dodge mini to a knackered LH to some secondhand VR still in Trent colours!

 

[Ken H]

Ripon to Harrogate was also covered by a United service. It was all folded into the 36 I believe.

Think in the 60's and 70's it was a joint service. The odd one in harrogate road, leeds was a united bus, but the rest were WYRCC. Suspect 1 bus on the route came from United Ripon depot. The rest from Harrogate and Roseville road, Leeds depots
You had to be eagle eyed cos they were the same colour!

 

[Ken H]

That conjures up an image of the driver apologising for the delay at Redcar and explaining why he had to change the number. I wonder if they always bothered?


New sub-thread: Bus services which change number en route!

580 Skipton-Settle. 581 Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale. 582 Kirkby Lonsdale - Lancaster. One through bus. Think old Ribble numbers. Settle - Ingleton - Lancaster used to be Pennine motors - Ribble joint service. Few Ribble buses ventured east of Ingleton. but a few Pennines got to Lancaster. but the tickets sold by Pennine were Ribble ones in the 1980's. Pennine buses never displayed a route number.

 

[SCH117X]

New sub-thread: Bus services which change number en route!

Four of Connexions X70 workings direct along the A661 to Wetherby change their into a 412 to York
In the opposite direct five 412s turn into X70 workings to Harrogate via Follifoot
Further sub-thread; Bus services with the same number which frequently throughout the day take completely different routes

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Think in the 60's and 70's it was a joint service. The odd one in harrogate road, leeds was a united bus, but the rest were WYRCC. Suspect 1 bus on the route came from United Ripon depot. The rest from Harrogate and Roseville road, Leeds depots
You had to be eagle eyed cos they were the same colour!

That may be the case that there was a United one from Ripon depot. It did have a single RELL allocated there for many years but there was also a Ripon to Harrogate service that United ran - think it may have served Wormald Green. Definitely in the 1980s, there were two vehicles from Harrogate depot doing the short workings but 3 working the full hourly Leeds to Ripon service - one each from Roseville Road, Harrogate and Ripon depots.

 

[SCH117X]

Think in the 60's and 70's it was a joint service. The odd one in harrogate road, leeds was a united bus, but the rest were WYRCC.

The joint service latest through the 80s and into the 90s to Blazefield take over of all services with one vehicle having been provided by United and the rest by Harrogate & District after the break up of WYRCC.

there was also a Ripon to Harrogate service that United ran - think it may have served Wormald Green.

Difficult not to as the village is astride the A61 so was always served by the 36.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The joint service latest through the 80s and into the 90s to Blazefield take over of all services with one vehicle having been provided by United and the rest by Harrogate & District after the break up of WYRCC.

Difficult not to as the village is astride the A61 so was always served by the 36.

I meant leaving the A61 and going into the “village “

 

[SCH117X]

You cannot "go into the village" without continuing onto Burton Leonard or Markington; the only village between Harrogate and Ripon that a bus can go into on that route is Ripley which the 36 does but which the United X36 Ripon-Harrogate service did not.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You cannot "go into the village" without continuing onto Burton Leonard or Markington; the only village between Harrogate and Ripon that a bus can go into on that route is Ripley which the 36 does but which the United X36 Ripon-Harrogate service did not.

I assume it was some sort of double run? Had a few trips on the X36 - usually a raucous 1974 LH!

Burton Leonard was United 56 but not certain if it had a 1** number at some point. Seem to recall the 57/58 were the 14 plus variants pre 1981. Some WY routes had an M suffix but no idea what that was about.

 

[SCH117X]

I assume it was some sort of double run? Had a few trips on the X36 - usually a raucous 1974 LH!

Burton Leonard was United 56 but not certain if it had a 1** number at some point. Seem to recall the 57/58 were the 14 plus variants pre 1981. Some WY routes had an M suffix but no idea what that was about.

There was for a while a solitary 36 that diverted off the A61 into Markington and back onto the A61 at Wormald Green (with presumably a northbound equivalent in the morning) which I suspect was school working related. The 56 went via Littlethorpe and Bishop Monkton to Burton Leonard which today is part of the 22/23 service. 131 or 132 springs to mind as an earlier working. There were at times some odd 56 workings; there was one that ran rom Knaresborough to Ripley and straight up the A61 to Ripon, possibly should have numbered X56.

 

[buslad1988]

Can anyone explain the old numbering system for Eastern Counties services around Great Yarmouth back in the early-mid 1990’s?

They had such an array of high numbers (some which kind of made sense) but others seemed random:

215-220 (Belton area)
600-604 (Lowestoft corridor)
622-623-626 (Hemsby area and OT)
703-705,726 (Norwich corridor)
707 (Stalham)

Whilst other towns with the miniline brand used letters which worked well... L1-L22 (Lowestoft), F1-F4 (Felixstowe), B1-B8 (Bury St Edmunds) etc.

In Ipswich the old NBC higher 200+ numbers were ditched in the late 1980’s and these numbers are generally still the same today 75-77 Felixstowe, 88 Stowmarket etc.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There was for a while a solitary 36 that diverted off the A61 into Markington and back onto the A61 at Wormald Green (with presumably a northbound equivalent in the morning) which I suspect was school working related. The 56 went via Littlethorpe and Bishop Monkton to Burton Leonard which today is part of the 22/23 service. 131 or 132 springs to mind as an earlier working. There were at times some odd 56 workings; there was one that ran rom Knaresborough to Ripley and straight up the A61 to Ripon, possibly should have numbered X56.

131 was Ripon to RE Camp and 132 was Ripon to Gallows Hill IIRC.

 

[SCH117X]

131 was Ripon to RE Camp and 132 was Ripon to Gallows Hill IIRC.

Doh! 131, 132 and 134 as well remained in use for Ripon town services until relatively recently.
A quick look through Flickr shows a United HN at Harrogate in 1975 running as a 129 https://www.flickr.com/photos/129093914@N02/47393082381/ Could that have been the service that became the 56?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Doh! 131, 132 and 134 as well remained in use for Ripon town services until relatively recently.
A quick look through Flickr shows a United HN at Harrogate in 1975 running as a 129 https://www.flickr.com/photos/129093914@N02/47393082381/ Could that have been the service that became the 56?

Hard to recall going back those years. There were some fairly substantial changes in summer 1981 to United and West Yorkshire services in North Yorkshire (similar to MAP schemes) where deckers suddenly reappeared in some places etc, and there were revisions to many services. Think that was when the Ripon to Scarborough service was actually severed at Helmsley/Ampleforth and so may have been that was when the routes in the Boroughbridge area were changed?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Do any operators not use names or numbers ? I recall that the municipalities of Doncaster and Maidstone along with most of those in the South Wales valleys had a destination blind showing just that - the destination.