Bus safety

[ATW Alex 101]

Hi all,

I have a little query and just want some of your opinion on something that happened yesterday on my School bus to home.

Our school bus is an Olympian, and it is forever breaking down or has problems. Yesteday at the school, the doors wouldnt shut and he kept mashing the button and it just wouldnt shut, he didnt bother to shut them by hand, so he drove with them open. What's even worse is that the bus route consists of a motorway and he drove down the M53 with the doors open at around 55MPH.

Now my instant thought was, what a complete and utter fool, in what way is it OK to drive on the motorway, with schoolchildren onboard with the doors open?

What is your view on this and was the bus driver stupid to do so?

Also, is this practise allowed? I've been on local bus routes round Ellesmere Port in the summer and the bus driver will ask the pax if it's ok to drive with the doors open, but on a motorway, very dangerous.

 

[Anon Mouse]

As long as everybody is sitting down (as they should be) I can't see there bing a problem, I'v been on plenty of buses with the doors open. I'm not sure if its allowed or not though

 

[Mojo]

In the not too distant past, hardly any buses had doors in the passenger area!

 

[overthewater]

Its no longer allowed, I remember years ago during Hot summers, ( remember those) drivers used to keep the doors open but now adays there beeping noise if the bus moves with the doors open etc.

 

[anthony263]

No it isnt allowed and the driver should be lucky VOSA didnt spot him or someone reports him. Did he try to physically shut the doors when the bus was parked up at the school or when he was at a bus stop?

If the doors couldnt be shut the bus should have been taken out of service and a replacement vehicle sought even if it has to be hired from another operator

 

[Crossover]

Am I right in thinking that on the newest buses, there is an interlock with the handbrake? I remember drivers opening the doors on approach to bus stops (and us getting off before it fully stopped) but with the Lowlanders (i think that's what they are), the drivers seemed to have to stop and apply the handbrake before opening the doors

 

[wintonian]

I have been on plenty of buses where the doors have been open whilst in motion, and no I'm not talking about Routemasters. However I have not witnessed this for at last 2/ 3 years and certainly never on a motorway, dual carriageway yes but not a motorway.

 

[Lrd]

Am I right in thinking that on the newest buses, there is an interlock with the handbrake? I remember drivers opening the doors on approach to bus stops (and us getting off before it fully stopped) but with the Lowlanders (i think that's what they are), the drivers seemed to have to stop and apply the handbrake before opening the doors

On the old Cadets down here on Bluestar, a modification was added to sound an alarm if the doors were open with the handbrake off as quite often the driver would pull up to a stop, open the doors, alarm sounds and then apply the handbrake and the alarm would stop, this quite often broke though, so the alarm would constantly sound when the doors were open even with the handbrake on.

On the new Citaro's there is no such alarm and the driver can pull away from a stop with the doors open as they can be a bit fiddly and swing back open after pulling away and the driver fighting with the button to keep them closed.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Did he try to physically shut the doors when the bus was parked up at the school or when he was at a bus stop?

Nope, he just mashed the door close button and then shrugged his shoulders and put his jacket on so he wasn't cold.

If the doors couldnt be shut the bus should have been taken out of service and a replacement vehicle sought even if it has to be hired from another operator

That's what I was thinking as well, I honestly thought that he would be mad to drive on the motorway with them open and there is a lay-by before the motorway and I just thought he would pull over and try to push them shut with his hands but he never.

As long as everybody is sitting down (as they should be) I can't see there being a problem, I'v been on plenty of buses with the doors open. I'm not sure if its allowed or not though

Not everybody was sitting down, our bus tends to get full so all the seats get taken and thus some people don't get a seat. There were a group of year 7/8 girls standing by the front or sitting in the bag bin. When you say they should be sitting down, why does the bus have a maximum number of people standing?

In the not too distant past, hardly any buses had doors in the passenger area!

But on the motorway!

I had forgot about routemasters, but then again I doubt they did anything over 45 while in London, but just the fact the driver was stupid to go on the motorway with the doors open is beyond me really

 

[Panda]

The Routemaster replacement buses all drive with the door open at the back. In my view that is far more dangerous than an open front door (given the momentum and motion of the bus, its more likely for a passenger to fall out the back, than fall out the front).

 

[Statto]

No longer allowed. There was an incident in my area a few years ago, when the bus had it's doors open whilst moving, a Girl fell out of the bus & ended up in a Coma.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Is there emergency open/close buttons above the door, usually used by drivers to get out the bus, use the button to shut the door on the way out as you can't do it from the cabin otherwise (unless it's time delayed). If the door buttons in the cab doesn't work, then using the emergency close button should do?

 

[ATW Alex 101]

In the not too distant past, hardly any buses had doors in the passenger area!

No longer allowed. There was an incident in my area a few years ago, when the bus had it's doors open whilst moving, a Girl fell out of the bus & ended up in a Coma.

Yes, my mates sister was standing by the door and I was wondering whether it would be wise for my mate to tell her to get back. Frighting to know what could have happened.

 

[bluenoxid]

No it isnt allowed and the driver should be lucky VOSA didnt spot him or someone reports him. Did he try to physically shut the doors when the bus was parked up at the school or when he was at a bus stop?

If the doors couldnt be shut the bus should have been taken out of service and a replacement vehicle sought even if it has to be hired from another operator

VOSA???

Do they have any staff left :roll:

There are two ways to go. If the school bus is LA provided and sponsored then have a natter with them. They will have a really tight contract and buses that are not being run properly, will get targeted and fined.

If not, don't be afraid to pass on your concerns to the company and also the TC's/VOSA.

I think the frustration is that the choice is open doors or no bus. Sadly, it shouldn't be that way and there are certain people who can advise the operator to understand that buses should be reaching a certain standard of service particularly school buses.

 

[Zoidberg]

Is there emergency open/close buttons above the door, usually used by drivers to get out the bus, use the button to shut the door on the way out as you can't do it from the cabin otherwise (unless it's time delayed). If the door buttons in the cab doesn't work, then using the emergency close button should do?

Just imagining school kids struggling to the front of a moving bus and reaching up at an open door to press a "Door Close" button.

 

[Lrd]

Is there emergency open/close buttons above the door, usually used by drivers to get out the bus, use the button to shut the door on the way out as you can't do it from the cabin otherwise (unless it's time delayed). If the door buttons in the cab doesn't work, then using the emergency close button should do?

Are they even 'emergency' buttons? I thought they were just secondary buttons and would just have the same effect as the ones in the cab.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

They do, just press it and the door opens like it usually does. Thats how they get in and out

 

[Tom B]

I think the frustration is that the choice is open doors or no bus. Sadly, it shouldn't be that way and there are certain people who can advise the operator to understand that buses should be reaching a certain standard of service particularly school buses.

A local operator was very good at replying to complaints regarding the poor quality of their vehicles by saying that it was the only vehicle available and would you have preferred to have had to walk instead? Rather than dealing with the problem, which was their lackadaisical attitude to roadworthiness.

Needless to say they had a series of dealings with the VOSA, got issued with multiple prohibition notices and eventually went out of business (not helped by staff having fingers in the till!).

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Are they even 'emergency' buttons? I thought they were just secondary buttons and would just have the same effect as the ones in the cab.

I didn't know if they are linked or not. I only call them that as the First Crusaders from Bath fleet have 'For Emergency Only' above the buttons, probably to stop joe public using it.

I have used it once to shut the doors many years ago when a driver shut down the dart in Bristol City Centre, leaving me and a few other passengers shut in as he buggered off, no mention as to why. Ten minutes later we were fed up so someone opened the doors as they found the button. As I was the last out, I shut them behind me.

I don't know if they are separate, but if they are not working in the cab then in theory these should work instead? I also didn't mean passengers doing it themselves, I meant that the driver could have used this button instead as a temp fix

 

[WillPS]

I remember buses going about with their doors open in the summer. In Nottingham they'd generally close them if a passenger got up ready to get off until their actual stop.

 

[Mojo]

Are the doors not connected with the ''Stopping'' light? I remember about 6 or 7 years ago when Eurotaxis held a contract for services in Bristol and the driver was driving along with the doors open. An elderly lady pressed the button to get off and the ''Stopping'' light lit up for about a second. The bus sailed past her stop and I had to go up and tell the driver someone wanted to get off. Eventually the driver closed the doors (later in the journey), and the light stayed illuminated until the doors were opened.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Are the doors not connected with the ''Stopping'' light? I remember about 6 or 7 years ago when Eurotaxis held a contract for services in Bristol and the driver was driving along with the doors open. An elderly lady pressed the button to get off and the ''Stopping'' light lit up for about a second. The bus sailed past her stop and I had to go up and tell the driver someone wanted to get off. Eventually the driver closed the doors (later in the journey), and the light stayed illuminated until the doors were opened.

The stopping light on our bus was smashed in from a projectile a while back and thus it doesn't work.

 

[MCR247]

Yes they are, although sometimes the doors have to open fully for the stopping light to go out, so if you have a situation where the driver stops, opens the doors, person gets of quickly and the driver closes them and sets off quite quickly, the "Bus Stopping" or "Stop" light stays lit

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Just imagining school kids struggling to the front of a moving bus and reaching up at an open door to press a "Door Close" button.

I've actually done that on the Lynx going to and from school. I open it myself sometimes, from either the outside or the inside.

Regarding the topic though, no it should not be allowed and I'm sure that you get told not to do this in training. (Preston Bus certainly do, hasn't stopped them mind)

 

[Lewisham2221]

Yes they are, although sometimes the doors have to open fully for the stopping light to go out, so if you have a situation where the driver stops, opens the doors, person gets of quickly and the driver closes them and sets off quite quickly, the "Bus Stopping" or "Stop" light stays lit

This seems to be a particular problem with certain designs of bus from the past 10 years or so. Rather than the light going off as soon as the doors are opened, the circuits are set up so that it doesn't go off until the doors are fully open, particularly annoying if the door that activates the microswitch is a bit slow! This also tends to affect the 'kneeling' operation as well.

 

[90019]

Am I right in thinking that on the newest buses, there is an interlock with the handbrake? I remember drivers opening the doors on approach to bus stops (and us getting off before it fully stopped) but with the Lowlanders (i think that's what they are), the drivers seemed to have to stop and apply the handbrake before opening the doors

Of the buses I drive, all the Volvos (both single deck and decker) won't let you open the doors until you're below a certain speed (I think it may be 3mph), and will automatically close them once you're above about 5mph or so.
The Pointers have no restriction at all, and you can open and close the doors at any time and at any speed.

It's nice on the Volvos because you just hold the button as you're stopping and they open as soon as you're slow enough, so they're fully open by the time you've stopped.
The system on the Pointers is also quite useful as the speed the doors open varys a lot between some buses, with some opening so fast that they slam off the bulkhead at the front of the bus, and some taking an age to open, so you can start them opening at different points so they're at least partially open when you've stopped.


The Wright Streetlite demonstrator we had recently, you had to put the handbrake on before it would let you open the doors, which is fine until you forget because you've been driving other buses all day.

This seems to be a particular problem with certain designs of bus from the past 10 years or so. Rather than the light going off as soon as the doors are opened, the circuits are set up so that it doesn't go off until the doors are fully open, particularly annoying if the door that activates the microswitch is a bit slow! This also tends to affect the 'kneeling' operation as well.

There are a couple of the single deck Volvos I drive that are a bit slow for the stopping light to go off - it's more irriating because the bell at the front of the bus only rings the first time, after that it's only the one at the back which you can't really hear that well, so when someone pushes it by accident it's best to stop and open the doors fully, even if you know nobody wants off.

It's almost relevant, but two of the Volvo single decks have a rather stupid setup where the light on the dashboard goes out after a few seconds, but the one for the passengers stays on. They also only ring the front bell once, so if you miss it and don't see the light on the dashboard before it goes off again, you can miss stops. Thankfully I've not missed any yet as I just listen more carefully for the bell on those two.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Of the buses I drive, all the Volvos (both single deck and decker) won't let you open the doors until you're below a certain speed (I think it may be 3mph), and will automatically close them once you're above about 5mph or so.
The Pointers have no restriction at all, and you can open and close the doors at any time and at any speed.

It's nice on the Volvos because you just hold the button as you're stopping and they open as soon as you're slow enough, so they're fully open by the time you've stopped.
The system on the Pointers is also quite useful as the speed the doors open varys a lot between some buses, with some opening so fast that they slam off the bulkhead at the front of the bus, and some taking an age to open, so you can start them opening at different points so they're at least partially open when you've stopped.


The Wright Streetlite demonstrator we had recently, you had to put the handbrake on before it would let you open the doors, which is fine until you forget because you've been driving other buses all day.

There are a couple of the single deck Volvos I drive that are a bit slow for the stopping light to go off - it's more irriating because the bell at the front of the bus only rings the first time, after that it's only the one at the back which you can't really hear that well, so when someone pushes it by accident it's best to stop and open the doors fully, even if you know nobody wants off.

It's almost relevant, but two of the Volvo single decks have a rather stupid setup where the light on the dashboard goes out after a few seconds, but the one for the passengers stays on. They also only ring the front bell once, so if you miss it and don't see the light on the dashboard before it goes off again, you can miss stops. Thankfully I've not missed any yet as I just listen more carefully for the bell on those two.

Yep, sounds like a normal day at the "office".

Really irritating when the engineers don't sort problems with the light on the dashboard, especially when you get passengers ringing the bell when there's 2 or 3 roundabouts/sets of traffic lights before the next stop and you've totally forgot they rang the bell by the time you get there.

 

[90019]

Really irritating when the engineers don't sort problems with the light on the dashboard, especially when you get passengers ringing the bell when there's 2 or 3 roundabouts/sets of traffic lights before the next stop and you've totally forgot they rang the bell by the time you get there.

Annoyingly, it's not considered to be a problem, because for some reason they seem to have been built like that. There's only two buses that do it, which are the only two second hand buses in the fleet, and they've always done it.

I don't know how anyone can think it's a good idea for the stopping light to do that, but clearly someone did.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Annoyingly, it's not considered to be a problem, because for some reason they seem to have been built like that. There's only two buses that do it, which are the only two second hand buses in the fleet, and they've always done it.

I don't know how anyone can think it's a good idea for the stopping light to do that, but clearly someone did.

Dunno, I always thought it was some sort of fault, as we've got batches of buses where some work properly and some go off. Either way, it's annoying!

 

[Tubefan2013]

Really I am suprised even modern bues on my local route which are Wrightbus Gemini 2 it can pull away with the doors open. My minibus will not go anywhere with the doors open otherwise the engine will cut out (safety)