Bus Services in North Yorkshire National park

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by Evyore, 23 Nov 2013.

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  1. Evyore

    Evyore New Member

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    Here is an update from the North Yorkshire Moors National Park Authority re public bus service known as Moorsbus

    A campaign has been started to use the funds that are available to keep Moorsbus going in 2014 and beyond.
    www.kms-environmentgroup.org.uk/friends-of-moorsbus-campaign/who-are-friends-of-moorsbus/
    Here is the website and links to the active facebook page. Please give us your support to ensure public access to this area of outstanding beauty.
    Thankyou.Evyore

    Please note that the 26th November Summit to keep Moorsbus on the move is extremely important in the campaign to save Moorsbus.

    Thankyou
     
  2. johnnychips

    johnnychips Established Member

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    Were these services subsidised by the National Park, or North Yorkshire CC?
     
  3. overthewater

    overthewater Established Member

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    How about there all each pay a tenner for daytickets to use the services? If that is a no go, im sorry but the council cant be wasting money on day tripper bus services.
     
    Last edited: 24 Nov 2013
  4. Evyore

    Evyore New Member

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  5. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    rules prohibit me from expressing, in my usual blunt and direct norther manner, my utter contempt and derision for such a mindless post which neither grasps nor understands the concept and operation of these bus services. Therefore this symbol will suffice: :roll::roll::roll:

    It will be a crying shame for the excellent Moors bus service to cease. it opens up the moors to so many people and connects otherwise remote communities with each other. Many rural communities will be completely cut off to public transport users and the moors will be detached from the main public transport network if these links are severed.

    It is a big blow for business in the Moors and also for general access to the Moors national park
     
  6. overthewater

    overthewater Established Member

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    You can think what ever you like, but the said fact is, cutbacks have to be made, front line services including the current bus network has to be protected.

    Alas the simple fact is the Moorsbus only operates on Sundays and Bank Holidays.

    This is what is causing part of the problem, and since central government will not cough up the the money to cover the passes for the decent rate of 70%, then something need to give. I believe the passes should be kept free for the oap, but its does because very hard to justify free travel for services like the moors bus network.

    If the pass holders paid:
    £6 for Inner Zone or £9 for Outer respectively

    I bet that would keep the services going.
     
  7. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    And you can think what you like!

    There are sod all bus services in North Yorkshire to protect and i am well aware how the Moors Bus service works. It USED to run a more frequent service which brought in more passengers and more money. In 2011 this was cut back. - i know as i used to live there!

    Cutting these services is a mistake.
     
  8. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Appreciate both sides of the argument. However, there is now a consultation with NYCC and my elderly relatives (Mum, aunts and uncles) look likely to lose their town service, as will most supported local routes are due to go.

    Given the choice of saving those, or protecting Moorsbus, then regretfully I'd side with saving the buses that people need 52 weeks a year.

    ps I'd like to keep both but that was Cameron's localist agenda - cut central funding but let local politicians have the worry and bad press as to where to wield the axe, and dress it up as local autonomy (or am I being cynical?)
     
    Last edited: 24 Nov 2013
  9. Evyore

    Evyore New Member

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    The fact is that there is no choice! Both could go!
     
  10. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Indeed, and I know that funding is drawn from two different sources (i.e. Park Authority vs. NYCC). However, as I said, IF they was a choice in saving one through funds being found, then I'd sooner the all year round services were saved.
     
  11. Moonshot

    Moonshot Established Member

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  12. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Is there any chance you could write your posts in English - or at least get a grammar checker to check them before you post?

    In areas which rely heavily on tourists local businesses can be very reliant on services like these to bring in people to spend money.

    The businesses in Grassington are very worried about North Yorkshire's proposed cuts to services in the south of the country - justified because they are not for essential travel.
     
  13. NorthernSpirit

    NorthernSpirit Member

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    Now, I've used the excellent Moorsbus network and what I can say is that there are businesses in Helmsley, Stokesley, Guisborough, Danby, Pickering and Thornton-le-Dale that will lose out in the long run.

    On the penulitmate Sunday of Moorsbus operation, I was talking to the 'twentysomething' bird who runs a sweet shop in Helmsley and even she is worried that a shoppers style bus (one out, one back) on the 31X and the loss of Moorsbus makes her want to relocated to either York or even Leeds because of the loss of decent enough transport links.

    There is an excellent pub in Netwon under Roseberry, who will no doubt have to extend their car park plus raising the risk of drink driving because of no Sunday bus services, its also a blow for those wishing to climb up to the peak of Roseberry Topping.

    It could be saved but in my own opinion it would have to be the Moorlands Discovery that would have to be the one that is retained as a bare minimum service. Other services would have to be added from 2015 onwards.
     
  14. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    Ripon or Harrogate?
     
  15. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Each town is losing regular bus services in favour of poxy dial a ride alternatives - Richmond, Northallerton, Thirsk, Ripon, Pickering, Skipton, etc
     
    Last edited: 29 Nov 2013
  16. Oscar

    Oscar Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Unfortunately the National Park Authority refused to fund Moorsbus 2014 at the summit and has decided to spend the money on 3 minibuses for under-represented groups, though is also prepared to help Friends of Moorsbus set up a Community Interest Company to promote public transport. In a letter I received from the Chief Executive of the NPA he puts forward the points that passengers using concessionary passes would be unwillingly to pay fares in sufficient numbers to make the service viable and that shrinking the network would inevitably make it less attractively and shrink passenger numbers and that the network can therefore not be made viable. The first argument is based on the fall in patronage of the Heritage Bus of over 50% when a £5 charge was introduced for concessionary pass holders. Making a charge for one bus in the network is obviously a completely different scenario to charging for travel on the whole network, however. The NYCC reimbursement for concessionary passes is around 42% and "tourist services" (i.e. services not accepting concessionary passes) are also not eligible for the Bus Service Operators' Grant (formerly fuel duty rebate), as also detailed on the Friends of Moorsbus website. It is in fact very difficult to predict how much concessionary pass usage would decline, as as far as I am aware there has been no previous removal of pass validity on a network of this kind. As to the redesigning of the network, he doesn't appear to realise how attractive a Moorsbus network with 8 buses would be with a different timetable, for example, by connecting with rail services at Thirsk, Northallerton, Danby and Malton and with Coastliner services at Malton and Pickering and running to Castle Howard, Flamingo Land and Whitby, which would attract paying passengers. Until now Moorsbus services have only been timetabled to connect with other Moorsbus services, severely restricting connections to nearby towns and cities. In the 2013 timetable 3 buses ran the Rosedale and Dalby Forest services, which in my limited experience, are very lightly used (particularly Rosedale). In fact, 1 bus running 2-3 times to Rosedale and 2-3 times to the Dalby Forest would be completely sufficient and, if it connected well the Coastliner, 128 services and trains at Malton (perhaps attracting passengers from Leeds), would be far more attractive. The Moorsbus network required a subsidy of 80% of its costs in 2013, whereas the Dalesbus system only required a 60% subsidy, despite having to run much longer routes. The website also says that the NPA spent about £26 000 on marketing in 2013 (to little effect), whereas the proposal was for £10 000 in 2014, making extensive use of volunteers. I think what's most likely to be provided in 2014 now is a very limited service using perhaps 3 buses providing a few basic Sunday & Bank Holiday services between Pickering, Helmsley and Danby with feeder services from Hull and Teesside, mostly funded by fares / concessionary pass income, with some small contributions from other sources.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    No, the Moorsbus was funded entirely by the National Park Authority in its last years (c. £160 000 in 2013), NYCC made a contribution of £50 000 until (I believe) 2010 - after this Tuesday and Friday services in July and September were replaced by a Wednesday service in 2011. The National Park Authority made a contribution of just over £200 000 until around that time, which has since been reduced. This meant the loss of the Wednesday service in July and September and the Monday-Saturday service during the July/August school holidays. The current debate has centred around the £100 000 per year which the National Park Authority had set aside for transport from 2014 onwards.
     
    Last edited: 30 Nov 2013
  17. AndyHudds

    AndyHudds Member

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    The correlation between public transport and tourism in Britain is dire,its as if the authorities can't see the relationship between the two and that tourist spend money in communities that rely on tourism. 'I know lets remove their core market by discontinuing public transport that bring punters to your business', its the same into Whitby, its totally inaccessible from the Yorkshire Heartlands by rail.
     
  18. NorthernSpirit

    NorthernSpirit Member

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    Since I'm partially involved with Friendsofmoorsbus, I'll update you all on what's happening for twenty fourteen.

    There might be a bus from Hull to the Moors (where exactly, I don't know) but please send comments and suggestions to Claire at updates@eyms.co.uk, giving the subject line as “Moorsbus Research”. Its likely it'll run on either the old M13 / M14 route via Malton and possibly to Pickering but from there to where is the question. I have responded and suggested a service to Stokesley via Danby & Guisborough. I will also encourage other to contact EYMS too over where the possible new service could go.

    I will say it needs to be at least profitable out of most of its operating journeys or there won't be anything for and from 2015 onwards.
     
    Last edited: 22 Feb 2014
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