Bus tickets/fares

[shinkansen1966]

West Yorkshire's bus companies have had it good for so long

How so ? Profits ?

I am still not totally convinced that Metro will go through with it and will chicken out at some point.

What makes you think that ?

This project deserves to succeed. Thanks to your post yesterday and bit of www research since then, I hadn't realised how far WYMetro had got with this. I want passengers across the UK to get the kind of accessible easy to understand services we've had in London for years.

 

[radamfi]

How so ? Profits ?

First, Arriva, Transdev etc. can pretty much do what they like in their patches of West Yorkshire with little fear of competition. The only significant competition AFAIK is low quality competition around Halifax. Centrebus are there but they mostly have routes that First aren't interested in. The operators can control their own timetables and charge whatever fares they like.

What makes you think that ?

This project deserves to succeed. Thanks to your post yesterday and bit of www research since then, I hadn't realised how far WYMetro had got with this. I want passengers across the UK to get the kind of accessible easy to understand services we've had in London for years.

There have been so many threats of QCs in the last few years, only for the plans to be scrapped, so I won't hold my breath. I'll just be pleasantly surprised if WY actually get to do it.

There will almost certainly be a legal challenge by the big companies, which may well delay the QC and impose additional costs which might make the scheme no longer viable. It will cost serious money in set up costs (although probably cheaper in the long run) and South Yorkshire (who also want to do QCs) is making very loud noises about not being able to afford it.

 

[shinkansen1966]

There will almost certainly be a legal challenge by the big companies, which may well delay the QC and impose additional costs which might make the scheme no longer viable.

If they do mount a challenge, fingers crossed that private bus companies will look like the vilains of the peace. Let's face it, the private train operators appear to have few friends amongst the travelling public and press.

Keep me posted.

 

[radamfi]

QCs are not all bad for operators. Whilst margins may not be as good in regulated markets as they are in deregulated ones, operators who secure franchises will be guaranteed a steady stream of income for a number of years, particularly if the revenue risk is with the authority, which seems to be the case in the WY QC proposal. Most of the major groups seem happy to operate substantial operations in London and other regulated markets around Europe.

Is there anyone on here who supports bus deregulation?

 

[deltabravo]

Is there anyone on here who supports bus deregulation?

Not one bit. Sure 'bus wars' work for passengers in the short term, but then when First/Stagecoach/Arriva, etc, win, they raise their prices. Look at Leeds, First have it pretty much sorted.

I really do hope Metro get quality contracts in place for west yorkshire.

 

[142094]

Is there anyone on here who supports bus deregulation?

No.

I refuse to use the bus these days due to the price - £1.25 for a couple of stops. Either walk or use my Metro pass.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

QCs

Is there anyone on here who supports bus deregulation?

I do not think that anyone who did would admit to doing so on this thread, for fear of public castigation in follow-up threads.

 

[exile]

In Liverpool some companies have a fare for 1 stop of £1.80.

 

[tom1649]

In Liverpool some companies have a fare for 1 stop of £1.80.

There was a time when you could travel on everything in Liverpool for £1.50 a day!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There was a time when you could travel on everything in Liverpool for £1.50 a day!

.....and even make a journey in 1958 from Middleton to Manchester for 4d, which is 1.5 pence in todays' currency

 

[tom1649]

.....and even make a journey in 1958 from Middleton to Manchester for 4d, which is 1.5 pence in todays' currency

In 2001 the bus fare from my village into town was 60p, it's now £1.30. Still cheaper than paying to park though.

Last time I went on the bus I was the only paying passenger and I nearly had to stand due to the number of pensioners.

 

[Tom B]

I saw this leaflet the other day - can anyone argue that it hasn't been the case? South Yorkshire's transport system has been decimated to the point of being unusable.

 

[tom1649]

I saw this leaflet the other day - can anyone argue that it hasn't been the case? South Yorkshire's transport system has been decimated to the point of being unusable.

My dad reminded me that in the early 1980s he could go anywhere in Sheffield for a flat fare of 8p!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Transdev's route 152 bus around here (Preston-Blackburn-Burnley) is £5.10 single from Preston-Cherry Tree or £7.50 return!!!

Transdev also run the Witch Way X43/X44 services that run from Nelson-Burnley-Rawtenstall-Manchester, which shows their pricing structure on page 5 of the timetable.

Nelson to Manchester.........£4.60 single.........£7.00 return
Burnley to Manchester........£4.60 single.........£7.00 return
Rawtenstall to Manchester...£3.80 single.........£6.50 return


Transdev also run the Lancashire Way X40/X41 services that run from Blackburn-Accrington- Haslingden-Manchester, which shows their pricing structure on page 6 of the timetable.

Blackburn to Manchester....£4.60 single.........£7.00 return
Accrington to Manchester...£4.60 single........£7.00 return
Haslingden to Manchester...£3.80 single........£6.50 return

Transdev do sell a 1-day Gold Card and a 7-day Gold Card that is valid on both these services and by all other services run by Transdev Lancashire United and by Transdev Burnley and Pendle.

1-day..........£7.00 Adult...£6.30 Student...£4.20 Child....£14.00 Family
7-day........£27.50 Adult..£24.75 Student..£16.50 Child...£55.00 Family
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That Coastliner service from Leeds/York to Malton/Pickering/Whitby is a service I wanted to use for the NYMR diesel gala later this year, as the rail service is awful. No fares information or even a timetable could be found! Plans now changed, partly based on poor information provided.

It is a pity that you had to change your plans, as the information was readily available on line. Just type Yorkshire Coastliner into your search engine and the information is fully available. The current information covers the Summer 2011 timetable effective from 28th May.

The current Yorkshire Coastliner services are all operated by Transdev and they all start from Leeds:-
743 to Heworth
840 to Whitby
843 to Scarborough
844 to Heworth
845 to Bridlington

 

[northwichcat]

Transdev also run the Witch Way X43/X44 services that run from Nelson-Burnley-Rawtenstall-Manchester, which shows their pricing structure on page 5 of the timetable.

Nelson to Manchester.........£4.60 single.........£7.00 return
Burnley to Manchester........£4.60 single.........£7.00 return
Rawtenstall to Manchester...£3.80 single.........£6.50 return


Transdev also run the Lancashire Way X40/X41 services that run from Blackburn-Accrington- Haslingden-Manchester, which shows their pricing structure on page 6 of the timetable.

Blackburn to Manchester....£4.60 single.........£7.00 return
Accrington to Manchester...£4.60 single........£7.00 return
Haslingden to Manchester...£3.80 single........£6.50 return

IIRC the return portions on Burnley & Pendle are valid for 4 weeks.

Bury to Manchester is £3.50 single on Metrolink so £3.80 for Haslingden or Rawtenstall to Manchester is a good fare in comparison.

The TfGM Wayfarer ticket is valid on the Witch Way between Manchester and Burnley.

 

[radamfi]

My dad reminded me that in the early 1980s he could go anywhere in Sheffield for a flat fare of 8p!

Before October 1986, bus fares were heavily subsided in some areas, mostly in the PTE areas. After deregulation, subsidising bus fares was illegal for commercial services so areas such as Sheffield had massive fare rises overnight.

(Most people reading this probably know this, but there may be some people who are not aware).

 

[bb21]

IIRC the return portions on Burnley & Pendle are valid for 4 weeks.

Yes they are. They were £4.60 return for Burnley - Manchester in early 2005, the same price as a single these days. 52% increase in 6 years = 7.24% a year.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Before October 1986, bus fares were heavily subsided in some areas, mostly in the PTE areas. After deregulation, subsidising bus fares was illegal for commercial services so areas such as Sheffield had massive fare rises overnight.

(Most people reading this probably know this, but there may be some people who are not aware).

I lived in South Yorkshire during the cheap fares bus policy of the 70s and early 80s. Looking back, think it was the greatest traffic calm scheme since WWII ! As a kid, I could go on the motorway expressbus for the 15 miles from Barnsley to Sheffield for 4p each way. Adults fares started at 5p to a maximum of 30p right the way across South Yorkshire.

• Buses were frequent and busy,
• Town centre shops prospered,
• No out of centre shopping centres surrounded by a sea of cars

And Thatcher axed the lot...

 

[Techniquest]

It is a pity that you had to change your plans, as the information was readily available on line. Just type Yorkshire Coastliner into your search engine and the information is fully available. The current information covers the Summer 2011 timetable effective from 28th May.

The current Yorkshire Coastliner services are all operated by Transdev and they all start from Leeds:-
743 to Heworth
840 to Whitby
843 to Scarborough
844 to Heworth
845 to Bridlington

Thanks, surprised I couldn't find that information myself. I'll have another look for fares information, but I'll certainly have a look again for the timetables. Plans aren't set in stone, although I'm considering doing a Pathfinder railtour the same day I was going to be needing the Coastliner anyway.

 

[tom1649]

And Thatcher axed the lot...

That's antisocialism at its best for you. Hit the people who earn the least most.

 

[Tom B]

I lived in South Yorkshire during the cheap fares bus policy of the 70s and early 80s. Looking back, think it was the greatest traffic calm scheme since WWII ! As a kid, I could go on the motorway expressbus for the 15 miles from Barnsley to Sheffield for 4p each way. Adults fares started at 5p to a maximum of 30p right the way across South Yorkshire.

• Buses were frequent and busy,
• Town centre shops prospered,
• No out of centre shopping centres surrounded by a sea of cars

And Thatcher axed the lot...

Quite. A single to town - 15p at deregulation (33p adjusted for inflation) - is now £2.40. I want to travel on the bus, not buy it!

The high prices and appalling quality of service mean that traffic congestion is rife, out of town centres have risen and ordinary people simply can't get about.

 

[Techniquest]

Depends how you define 'ordinary people' then really, I manage OK to get to/from work and occasionally go on leisure trips. And I only work part-time.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think they use laser heat printing rather than ink, so no chance of fading, unlike some rail tickets

This was a problem with some machines in the early days with some companies, until the technology improved.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Quite. A single to town - 15p at deregulation (33p adjusted for inflation) - is now £2.40. I want to travel on the bus, not buy it!

It has become more and more noticeable over the last few years, in particular, have seen the "base rate" fare increase, without any attempt to justify this against the prevailing national inflation figures (which do take account of fuel prices).

 

[shinkansen1966]

Quite. A single to town - 15p at deregulation (33p adjusted for inflation) - is now £2.40. I want to travel on the bus, not buy it!

The high prices and appalling quality of service mean that traffic congestion is rife, out of town centres have risen and ordinary people simply can't get about.

Elsewhere, I'm on a general / political discussion forum. Periodically, there's a motoring whinge about the rising cost of fuel, tax or insurance. A reminder about astronomic rise in bus fares, like your 15p/£2.50 example, always put things in perspective.