Busiest double tracked line

[Be3G]

Drayton Park Moorgate is only 6tph each way, 12 in total.

Whilst I realise it doesn't affect the overall answer to this thread, it's worth pointing out that that frequency doubles in the peaks.

 

[John55]

Indeed. My 1959 LMR timetable shows a 10-minute service to each of West Kirby, New Brighton and Rock Ferry off-peak (18tph).
The Rock Ferry line doubled up to a 5-minute frequency in the peak (24tph).
Today's timetable has 14tph off-peak with 16tph in the peak.

I wouldn't want to go back to the dimly-lit dungeon of the old Central LL though, with its steep and dangerous stairs leading to the one narrow island platform!

The platform at least hasn't changed (in width at any rate). However the genius's around in the 60s & 70s thought a narrow platform could be improved by sticking 4 escalator shafts into the middle!

It was much narrower before 1927 when it was much more like the very narrow island LT platforms.

 

[Bald Rick]

Talking national rail, the winner is London Bridge to Met Jn which has 29 tph (up) and just shy of that down in the high (morning) peak hour. Interestingly, once the London Bridge work is done, with the new viaduct and better junctions this has to reduce to 28tph.

For a pure two track railway the next is Christian St Jn to East Ham, which has 21tph up in the morning peak hour, with a similar number down, many of which go to East Ham depot to complicate matters.

IMHO The most impressive use of 2 line capacity, although not on a 2 line secton, is the main line pair of the GEML from Shenfield to Liverpool Street with 23tph in the up morning high peak (actually spaced at 24tph with 1 'firebreak' path). This is done with conventional signalling, 3 different lengths of train, 2 different door configurations, and at least 5 different stopping patterns. Compare to to the future plan for Thameslink.

Although it does help to have 2 platforms in the up direction at both Stratford and Shenfield, bundles of recovery time, and an exceptional head of train planning in GA.

 

[eastdyke]

.... IMHO The most impressive use of 2 line capacity, although not on a 2 line secton, is the main line pair of the GEML from Shenfield to Liverpool Street with 23tph in the up morning high peak (actually spaced at 24tph with 1 'firebreak' path). This is done with conventional signalling, 3 different lengths of train, 2 different door configurations, and at least 5 different stopping patterns. Compare to to the future plan for Thameslink.

Although it does help to have 2 platforms in the up direction at both Stratford and Shenfield, bundles of recovery time, and an exceptional head of train planning in GA.

And totally unappreciated by the vast majority of pax.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Thanks for all the replies. So it would be ok to run up to 10tph on the Wirral line.

Now lets just see what is the busiest section of line, I thought originally the line through St pancras and Farringdon that way. New street-Wolves

Wolves-walsall train
Arriva trains
Shrewsbury stopper
Virgin to Scotland
Virgin to wolves
New street to Liverpool
Also a stopper from wolves to new street if there is one

 

[SS4]

Wolves-walsall train

I suspect the direct line is hardly used at all (1tpd in passenger service from Walsall to Wolves) but correct me if I'm wrong

Also a stopper from wolves to new street if there is one

There is. It usually goes onto to form the all shacks to Walsall

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I suspect the direct line is hardly used at all (1tpd in passenger service from Walsall to Wolves) but correct me if I'm wrong

Thats what i'm saying it goes via New street and duddeston way

 

[yorksrob]

Talking national rail, the winner is London Bridge to Met Jn which has 29 tph (up) and just shy of that down in the high (morning) peak hour. Interestingly, once the London Bridge work is, with the new viaduct and better junctions this has to reduce to 28tph.

I presume this is taking the Thameslink services to one side - but even then, why can't they shift the same number of charing cross services over to the new viaduct ?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

All this is proving is that British Railways have one of the highest (if not THE) highest trafficed systems in the world. I still remember my first time at Clapham Junction in 1971 during the rush hour - I could not keep up recording the numbers.

 

[John55]

All this is proving is that British Railways have one of the highest (if not THE) highest trafficed systems in the world. I still remember my first time at Clapham Junction in 1971 during the rush hour - I could not keep up recording the numbers.

I suggest you do some research into the railways of Japan before making statements like the one above.

 

[Bald Rick]

I presume this is taking the Thameslink services to one side - but even then, why can't they shift the same number of charing cross services over to the new viaduct ?

It's complicated. A combination of the Thmeslink services 'fixing' the timetable out in the depths of Kent, more 12 car trains on Kent metro services requiring certain platfroms at CHX, and the fact that Met Junction 'moves' a quarter mile closer to Waterloo East meaning the current parallel moves don't work so well.

 

[MarkyT]

Im doing a school project about improving better rail links to my school's local and I'm wondering if the merseyrail line from Chester to Liverpool will be able to take 6 extra trains an hour and guys it's only a school project nothing serious so don't go mad at me

Its quite possible to specify signalling to handle trains following each other at 2 minute intervals, or less, using conventional fixed signals of 3 or 4 aspect form, assuming they are travelling at the same constant speed. Stations complicate matters however, and on busy urban systems, the platform reoccupancy times at the busiest stations often become the main factor in determining realistic spacing and capacity. Some more modern control systems can allow a second train to begin entering a platform safely before the previous one has fully departed. A potential problem with this approach is that the second train would be slowed down further back somewhat, more than if the platform was completely empty. That could extend journey times marginally and impact on the carrying capacity of a particular fleet size, so the practical extent of this is a matter of detailed design compromise., e.g. it may only be justified at the busiest stations where the load/unload times are greatest.

 

[stanley T]

It's complicated. A combination of the Thmeslink services 'fixing' the timetable out in the depths of Kent, more 12 car trains on Kent metro services requiring certain platfroms at CHX, and the fact that Met Junction 'moves' a quarter mile closer to Waterloo East meaning the current parallel moves don't work so well.

Also presumably the capacity constraint moves from Borough Market to the 6-platforms-only at CHX. The four tracking at Borough Market is principally to the benefit of Thameslink.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Surely that benefits the Charing Cross services as well since the two sets of services will now each have their own two tracks? Granted, the trains between Waterloo East and London Bridge still have to filter from four to two tracks, but the added complication of the conflicting Thameslink moves would no longer be a factor.

 

[stanley T]

Surely that benefits the Charing Cross services as well since the two sets of services will now each have their own two tracks? Granted, the trains between Waterloo East and London Bridge still have to filter from four to two tracks, but the added complication of the conflicting Thameslink moves would no longer be a factor.

That would make no sense, because there are far more trains to CHX than on Thameslink, even on the proposed new timetable, as many of the Thameslink trains will continue to use the Elephant-Herne Hill route.

On a completely different area, what is the frequency between Manchester Piccadilly and Oxford Road?

 

[yorksrob]

It's complicated. A combination of the Thmeslink services 'fixing' the timetable out in the depths of Kent, more 12 car trains on Kent metro services requiring certain platfroms at CHX, and the fact that Met Junction 'moves' a quarter mile closer to Waterloo East meaning the current parallel moves don't work so well.

Ah thanks - that sounds highly plausable. All those trains and only six platforms to turn them around in.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That would make no sense, because there are far more trains to CHX than on Thameslink, even on the proposed new timetable, as many of the Thameslink trains will continue to use the Elephant-Herne Hill route.

It's still easier than having up Thameslink trains conflict with down Charing Cross trains I would have thought.

 

[gnolife]

That would make no sense, because there are far more trains to CHX than on Thameslink, even on the proposed new timetable, as many of the Thameslink trains will continue to use the Elephant-Herne Hill route.

On a completely different area, what is the frequency between Manchester Piccadilly and Oxford Road?

8tph Off Peak. Oxford Road to Deansgate is busier with 10 off peak. I don't know how many TPH there are in the Peaks offhand thoughi][/i]

 

[150001]

Kings Norton to New Street has the XC services and the 10min interval of the Cross City services, so there's quite a lot along there.

 

[steamybrian]

My vote also goes to London Bridge-Borough Market Jn with up to 25 trains per hour.

In the process of being widened to four tracks..

 

[Eagle]

Kings Norton to New Street has the XC services and the 10min interval of the Cross City services, so there's quite a lot along there.

Doesn't have all the XC services though; Bristol to Manchester services usually go via Camp Hill during the day, rather than via Selly Oak.

 

[Mojo]

Doesn't have all the XC services though; Bristol to Manchester services usually go via Camp Hill during the day, rather than via Selly Oak.

They typically only run via Camp Hill on the way from New Street (i.e. the xx42 Southbound departures). In the Northbound direction bar an odd few services they all go via Selly Oak.

 

[The Planner]

That changes in December, there will be more via the Camp Hills

 

[MichaelAMW]

It's complicated. A combination of the Thmeslink services 'fixing' the timetable out in the depths of Kent, more 12 car trains on Kent metro services requiring certain platfroms at CHX, and the fact that Met Junction 'moves' a quarter mile closer to Waterloo East meaning the current parallel moves don't work so well.

Is the flexibility being retained whereby Metropolitan Junction is kind of in two places, which currently helps with the conflictions of down fast and up slow lines trains meeting on a diamond crossing?

 

[Statto]

Indeed. My 1959 LMR timetable shows a 10-minute service to each of West Kirby, New Brighton and Rock Ferry off-peak (18tph).
The Rock Ferry line doubled up to a 5-minute frequency in the peak (24tph).
Today's timetable has 14tph off-peak with 16tph in the peak.

I wouldn't want to go back to the dimly-lit dungeon of the old Central LL though, with its steep and dangerous stairs leading to the one narrow island platform!

When the Loop was completed the Peak Hour service was still every 2 minutes, Rock Ferry branch every 6 minutes. I'm not sure when the now familiar 15 minute frequency started, but think it was around when the line to Hooton was electrified?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is the flexibility being retained whereby Metropolitan Junction is kind of in two places, which currently helps with the conflictions of down fast and up slow lines trains meeting on a diamond crossing?

Met Jn is very definitely in one place now, although similar facilities are replicated closer to London. These will stay. In fact Met Jn stays where it is, but in future will become double junction between the Charing Cross and Thameslink lines. It will only be used during engineering work or disruption. The junction where the Charing Cross pair of lines splits to four will be known as Ewer Street Jn and is approx 400 metres west of Met Jn. It will be (slightly) higher speed and thus in theory will make certain journeys slightly quicker. But only by 15 seconds!

 

[AlanFry1]

Would Haywards Heath to Brighton be a worth contender? And what about parts of the South London Line?

 

[yorksrob]

Would Haywards Heath to Brighton be a worth contender? And what about parts of the South London Line?

In that case, the Three Bridges - Haywards Heath section would be pretty busy as well.

 

[thelem]

In that case, the Three Bridges - Haywards Heath section would be pretty busy as well.

That would be appropriate, given the proxomity to the world's busiest single runway airport.