CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jez]

I heard earlier this month that 197s were supposed to be cleared for Maesteg - Cheltenham by the end of the month, we're nearly at the end of January and nothing has exactly changed. Unless it starts soon, it probably won't happen. Any ideas on when this clearance goes through? Will it be fast enough to finish as they said?

It will happen but its probably taking longer like most routes have taken to be cleared.

 

[BillStampy]

It will happen but its probably taking longer like most routes have taken to be cleared.

Sounds about right. Cheers

 

[sd0733]

It will happen but its probably taking longer like most routes have taken to be cleared.

Yes they're all seemingly taking longer at the moment. Not had any updates for a while so unsure what the current estimates are for it now.

 

[craigybagel]

All stops from Shrewsbury to Cardiff omitted apart from Hereford and Newport.

That would also help to be fair.....

 

[sd0733]

That would also help to be fair.....

And the 10 mins standing time at Newport

 

[Bob Price]

5 coaches are not cleared Shrewsbury - Manchester they haven’t operated any more than 4 coaches up to Piccadilly all week.

1W24 is solo 197013

Getting my threads mixed up. The Mk4's have had five coach sets this week but not seen a 197 five set yet. I wonder why they have been cleared but not the 197 in pairs?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Getting my threads mixed up. The Mk4's have had five coach sets this week but not seen a 197 five set yet. I wonder why they have been cleared but not the 197 in pairs?

If I understand correctly from what I've read on this thread, class 197/0 (ie. 2-car sets) are cleared to run in pairs (to make up a 4-car train) but the 3-car sets (197/1) are only allowed to be used in multiple on certain route sections (and Shrewsbury-Manchester isn't one of them).

 

[Jamesrob637]

A 197 on the early Holyhead to Cardiff only made it as far as Valley today!

Realtime Trains | 1V92 0624 Holyhead to Valley | 29/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 1V92 0624 departure from Holyhead to Valley on 29/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[BenBracken]

The two early morning services to and from Milford canceled due to train faults. Would that be 197s not behaving?

 

[Russel]

Is there a summary anywhere of how many of these are in service, still to be delivered etc?

 

[45076]

Is there a summary anywhere of how many of these are in service, still to be delivered etc?

You could use this great little site from forum member The_Train

UK Railway Database | UK Rail Log

Welcome to the UK Rail Log Home Page, a UK Railway Locomotive & Multiple Unit database designed for the enthusiast community with help by the enthusiast community. Navigate to all areas of the site from here

www.ukraillog.co.uk

 

[The_Train]

You could use this great little site from forum member The_Train

UK Railway Database | UK Rail Log

Welcome to the UK Rail Log Home Page, a UK Railway Locomotive & Multiple Unit database designed for the enthusiast community with help by the enthusiast community. Navigate to all areas of the site from here

www.ukraillog.co.uk

I agree with these sentiments - thanks @45076

Edit: As an aside to this, I am trying to keep up to date with the movements from South Wales to Donnington but I know there are a lot more units stored at Donnington than I have details of. I do have people who update me from that area but unfortunately most seem to arrive into the terminal there without numbers and by road which means tracking them is impossible. I think I am up to date with the units that have carried passengers though

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Customers on 1V44 Manchester to Carmarthen are in the process of being turfed off 197046 and onto adjacent 197042 instead. What’s the reason for this?

There’s also a real problem with guards impatiently closing all doors on terminating 197s a ridiculously small amount of time after the train’s arrival, and trapping people with large amounts of luggage or in the older generation on board. I’ve just witnessed it yet again!

 

[The_Train]

Customers on 1V44 Manchester to Carmarthen are in the process of being turfed off 197046 and onto adjacent 197042 instead. What’s the reason for this?

There’s also a real problem with guards impatiently closing all doors on terminating 197s a ridiculously small amount of time after the train’s arrival, and trapping people with large amounts of luggage or in the older generation on board. I’ve just witnessed it yet again!

Probably a discussion for a new thread, but I am of doors being closed on people more and more these days. Seems to be issues around the country at certain stations of dispatch procedures beginning whilst it is obvious people are still trying to board

 

[Jez]

Customers on 1V44 Manchester to Carmarthen are in the process of being turfed off 197046 and onto adjacent 197042 instead. What’s the reason for this?

There’s also a real problem with guards impatiently closing all doors on terminating 197s a ridiculously small amount of time after the train’s arrival, and trapping people with large amounts of luggage or in the older generation on board. I’ve just witnessed it yet again!

Usually when a train is swapped at Cardiff its due to a fault although occasionally they do terminate and send a 197 that has come from Manchester back to either Manchester or Holyhead so it ends in the correct place that night due to maintenance requirements at Chester.

As for the amount of time alighting at the terminating station, ive never felt rushed to be honest. And often trains are sat at Cardiff a good while after terminating.

 

[BillStampy]

Customers on 1V44 Manchester to Carmarthen are in the process of being turfed off 197046 and onto adjacent 197042 instead. What’s the reason for this?

046 has ended up on 1B52 to Milford Haven a while later, I don't know why it was swapped as it would've been fine if 042 was on the Milford run with no changes.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Customers on 1V44 Manchester to Carmarthen are in the process of being turfed off 197046 and onto adjacent 197042 instead. What’s the reason for this?

There’s also a real problem with guards impatiently closing all doors on terminating 197s a ridiculously small amount of time after the train’s arrival, and trapping people with large amounts of luggage or in the older generation on board. I’ve just witnessed it yet again!

Usually when a train is swapped at Cardiff its due to a fault although occasionally they do terminate and send a 197 that has come from Manchester back to either Manchester or Holyhead so it ends in the correct place that night due to maintenance requirements at Chester.

As for the amount of time alighting at the terminating station, ive never felt rushed to be honest. And often trains are sat at Cardiff a good while after terminating.

I have shut many people onto trains when terminating. Sometimes, no one gets off for quite sometime, and unless they are right near you, its not possible to see into the coaches all the way down a train, so you close the doors then clear the train and find them locked on so let them off.
In my experience (being a passenger) Most people are slow and unprepared when coming to a terminating station.

Edit: I'll actually add, as a conductor I have known people being too slow to get off at normal intermediate stops. On multiple occasions I have been assisting on services before (I was doing revenue but not the working conductor) and have stopped the train leaving by pulling the emergency handle so that the conductor could re-open the doors to allow people off.
Unfortunatly I had one serious incident where 2 children (they were young, about 2 and 5) had left the service but the mother had not managed to get off (the children were not visible to me in a swarm of passengers on the platform) and we were well on our way to the next stop. very concerning for all involved. luckily a happy ending with them being re-united. The investigation found that I had allowed even more time than usual as it was so busy on the platform and wanted to be sure no one else was wanting to get on. How long do you wait? we do have to consider time keeping, shockingly HAHA.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I have shut many people onto trains when terminating. Sometimes, no one gets off for quite sometime, and unless they are right near you, its not possible to see into the coaches all the way down a train, so you close the doors then clear the train and find them locked on so let them off.
In my experience (being a passenger) Most people are slow and unprepared when coming to a terminating station.

I completely agree, but it's specifically just how little time is being allowed lately. There have been a fair few examples where the doors have been closed hardly any time after opening.

 

[The_Train]

Sometimes, no one gets off for quite sometime

How long is "quite some time", just out of interest?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As for the amount of time alighting at the terminating station, ive never felt rushed to be honest. And often trains are sat at Cardiff a good while after terminating.

Yes, with the doors locked.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I completely agree, but it's specifically just how little time is being allowed lately. There have been a fair few examples where the doors have been closed hardly any time after opening.

Ahh that’s interesting, must be rushing for some reason, or wildly impatient HAHA!

 

[robert thomas]

Yes, with the doors locked.

From my observations there are more problems when the terminating trains sit with their doors unlocked and people board thinking it's the next train to Swansea.

 

[craigybagel]

Local instructions require trains terminating at Cardiff to have their passenger doors locked before guards walk through to check that they're clear. Unfortunately it's physically impossible to see inside every carriage at once from the rear cab so you can only make a best guess as to when everybody is off. Sometimes people get locked on the train - and that's why the guards walk through afterwards. If guards waited longer to close the doors, I'm sure we'd get people complaining that they're taking too long and blocking the platform unnecessarily, or some other nonsense.

Contrary to the belief of some posters, the vast majority of staff are professionals and do actually know how to perform their job and think before their actions.

 

[800301]

Local instructions require trains terminating at Cardiff to have their passenger doors locked before guards walk through to check that they're clear. Unfortunately it's physically impossible to see inside every carriage at once from the rear cab so you can only make a best guess as to when everybody is off. Sometimes people get locked on the train - and that's why the guards walk through afterwards. If guards waited longer to close the doors, I'm sure we'd get people complaining that they're taking too long and blocking the platform unnecessarily, or some other nonsense.

Contrary to the belief of some posters, the vast majority of staff are professionals and do actually know how to perform their job and think before their actions.

What I do find interesting is that stock such as Electrostars have an off-peak function which dims the lighting and disables all exterior open buttons but allows people still inside to open the doors and exit with doors closing again shortly after which is extremely helpful when clearing a train, yet this feature doesn’t seem to have made its way to any other new stock such as 80x’s

 

[GWVillager]

What I do find interesting is that stock such as Electrostars have an off-peak function which dims the lighting and disables all exterior open buttons but allows people still inside to open the doors and exit with doors closing again shortly after which is extremely helpful when clearing a train, yet this feature doesn’t seem to have made its way to any other new stock such as 80x’s

That is absolutely amazing, I had no idea that existed. Surely it’s only a software change though - 197s could have it fitted?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Local instructions require trains terminating at Cardiff to have their passenger doors locked before guards walk through to check that they're clear. Unfortunately it's physically impossible to see inside every carriage at once from the rear cab so you can only make a best guess as to when everybody is off. Sometimes people get locked on the train - and that's why the guards walk through afterwards. If guards waited longer to close the doors, I'm sure we'd get people complaining that they're taking too long and blocking the platform unnecessarily, or some other nonsense.

Contrary to the belief of some posters, the vast majority of staff are professionals and do actually know how to perform their job and think before their actions.

Further more on the tube I am sure I have seen a staff member using a button outside to close each carriage off as they work along the train checking. Maybe at Harrow and Wealdstone. Might even be a feature on 455s ?.

What I do find interesting is that stock such as Electrostars have an off-peak function which dims the lighting and disables all exterior open buttons but allows people still inside to open the doors and exit with doors closing again shortly after which is extremely helpful when clearing a train, yet this feature doesn’t seem to have made its way to any other new stock such as 80x’s

That seems a method less prone to causing angst. Makes the staff members life less stressful as well.

 

[LowLevel]

Further more on the tube I am sure I have seen a staff member using a button outside to close each carriage off as they work along the train checking. Maybe at Harrow and Wealdstone. Might even be a feature on 455s ?.

That seems a method less prone to causing angst. Makes the staff members life less stressful as well.

Porter buttons. Common on stock built with DOO in mind to allow platform staff to clear them coach by coach, one walking along inside and the other walking along outside pressing each button. Networkers etc all have them, 15x and 17x etc don't.

 

[craigybagel]

What I do find interesting is that stock such as Electrostars have an off-peak function which dims the lighting and disables all exterior open buttons but allows people still inside to open the doors and exit with doors closing again shortly after which is extremely helpful when clearing a train, yet this feature doesn’t seem to have made its way to any other new stock such as 80x’s

That does sound very handy. All we have on 197s is Empty Coaching Stock mode, and that just puts "Not in service" on the outside and switches off the Aircon.

Further more on the tube I am sure I have seen a staff member using a button outside to close each carriage off as they work along the train checking. Maybe at Harrow and Wealdstone. Might even be a feature on 455s ?.

That seems a method less prone to causing angst. Makes the staff members life less stressful as well.

Porter buttons. Common on stock built with DOO in mind to allow platform staff to clear them coach by coach, one walking along inside and the other walking along outside pressing each button. Networkers etc all have them, 15x and 17x etc don't.

Would love to have porter buttons alright! Siemens units have them as well so it's definitely not a proprietary thing, but sadly again lacking on our units.

 

[BenBracken]

You could use this great little site from forum member The_Train

UK Railway Database | UK Rail Log

Welcome to the UK Rail Log Home Page, a UK Railway Locomotive & Multiple Unit database designed for the enthusiast community with help by the enthusiast community. Navigate to all areas of the site from here

www.ukraillog.co.uk

Thanks for posting this, really useful. A lot of units are marked as ‘stored’ in Telford. What is involved with the commissioning process and how long does it usually take? We should see a good number of units coming into service pretty soon?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Porter buttons. Common on stock built with DOO in mind to allow platform staff to clear them coach by coach, one walking along inside and the other walking along outside pressing each button. Networkers etc all have them, 15x and 17x etc don't.

Thanks. That is exactly what I recall now you mention it. One staff member engaging with the sleepers/confused/drunks and one shadowing outside closing the coaches off one by one.

The electrostar version (stopping entry but allowing exit) I assume means one less staff member required ?.