CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Bletchleyite]

I notice people crowding around the doors on 195s/331s up here instead of moving into aisles.
Think it's because of how open the door area feels compared to the aisles.

That's totally standard everywhere.

 

[Jez]

I think 5 diagrams are required for Cheltenham Spa to Maesteg. A journey of around 2 hours 15 mins in each direction plus turnaround time. I look forward to riding a 197 on the Maesteg branch line soon.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I believe 197120 should end at Holyhead on Monday night, so there’s hopefully a very good chance it’ll be put on a Holyhead Cardiff service on Tuesday morning

 

[BillStampy]

I believe 197120 should end at Holyhead on Monday night, so there’s hopefully a very good chance it’ll be put on a Holyhead Cardiff service on Tuesday morning

Hopefully!

I think 5 diagrams are required for Cheltenham Spa to Maesteg. A journey of around 2 hours 15 mins in each direction plus turnaround time. I look forward to riding a 197 on the Maesteg branch line soon.

Hopefully soon. It'll be nice instead of just all 150s or 153s everyday. The 150s are needed for Treherbert by the end of this month so we need something done soon.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Apparently it's very easy to add the ERTMS to any additional 197s if they need to.

"Easy" doesn't always translate as "Cheap".
These trains were ordered in 2018 before ETCS (the term used for the track/train equipment for ERTMS) began rollout elsewhere on NR.
The Cambrian system was originally a pilot and had to be upgraded for standard ETCS use, but seemingly the 158s work quite happily on the new version.
I don't think the new system has been tested with 197s yet, although the industry test facilities (on the Hertford loop) are available.
Commissioning will be a complex affair possibly requiring possessions for 197-only running initially, until mixed 158/197 working is approved.
But none of that stops the ETCS-fitted 197s from running on the rest of the network in isolated mode.

 

[Along the bay]

Are 5 coach diagrams now in place for Sunday's Manchester - Chester workings? Sure I just saw one.

 

[Lurcheroo]

"Easy" doesn't always translate as "Cheap".
These trains were ordered in 2018 before ETCS (the term used for the track/train equipment for ERTMS) began rollout elsewhere on NR.
The Cambrian system was originally a pilot and had to be upgraded for standard ETCS use, but seemingly the 158s work quite happily on the new version.
I don't think the new system has been tested with 197s yet, although the industry test facilities (on the Hertford loop) are available.
Commissioning will be a complex affair possibly requiring possessions for 197-only running initially, until mixed 158/197 working is approved.
But none of that stops the ETCS-fitted 197s from running on the rest of the network in isolated mode.

Yes an ETCS 197 has done a number of testing runs (at night time) on the Cambrian line. Another set of test runs is booked in for Early March.
If I remember correctly, the day after the upgrade, all 158 services ran on the Cambrian but with no passengers and bus replacements were in place for all passenger journeys.
Wether I’m not 158’s and 197’s will run in the Cambrian simultaneously is yet to be seen. The plan was to swap from 158’s to 197’s overnight, then it was to have them running together in a 3 stage change over and the latest plan is back to swapping overnight.

 

[sd0733]

They've been tested a lot for Gloucester recently, so hopefully it does happen next week as they said it'd happen late January. Hope for the best allocations on Monday

All the Maestegs and Gloucesters for tomorrow are booked Single 150s or Pairs of 153s, no 197 diagrams.

 

[BillStampy]

All the Maestegs and Gloucesters for tomorrow are booked Single 150s or Pairs of 153s, no 197 diagrams.

Alright. Keep waiting then...

 

[Jez]

"Easy" doesn't always translate as "Cheap".

Yes indeed, but the point i was making was if TFW found they needed more 197s for the Cambrian or there was an issue with lots being out of service its apparently easy to add the ERTMS. Hopefully they have worked it out correctly and they wont need that added expense.

All the Maestegs and Gloucesters for tomorrow are booked Single 150s or Pairs of 153s, no 197 diagrams.

Id rather the Maestegs were kept as Sprinters a bit longer rather than 197s and then lots of Manchester-South Wales were subbed for Sprinters! The long distance routes should take priority for the 197s in my opinion.

 

[childwallblues]

The hourly Chester to Liverpool Lime Street starts again tomorrow. The first train is 1F90 0542 from Chester for which 197020 is allocated.

 

[sd0733]

Id rather the Maestegs were kept as Sprinters a bit longer rather than 197s and then lots of Manchester-South Wales were subbed for Sprinters! The long distance routes should take priority for the 197s in my opinion.

Agreed, but once the use of 150s increases when Treherbert reopens the Sprinters won't be there as much to do the subbing.
197 reliability needs to improve dramatically, there's been 5 failures just today, one barely making it round the corner from its first stop before losing power. Until it does increases in diagrams on any route are going to be difficult to resource.

 

[Anonymous10]

Agreed, but once the use of 150s increases when Treherbert reopens the Sprinters won't be there as much to do the subbing.
197 reliability needs to improve dramatically, there's been 5 failures just today, one barely making it round the corner from its first stop before losing power. Until it does increases in diagrams on any route are going to be difficult to resource.

Yup, the only sprinters left to cover the network would be the class 153s

 

[sd0733]

Yup, the only sprinters left to cover the network would be the class 153s

As of tomorrow the 153s have 20 diagrams for 26 units to cover their own work so not a lot of slack there either.

Hopefully Diagram 5 on the Mk4s isn't far away and availability is improving but both fleets, 197s and Mk4s need to improve availability and reliability as the 15x cover won't be there forever!

 

[Anonymous10]

As of tomorrow the 153s have 20 diagrams for 26 units to cover their own work so not a lot of slack there either.

Hopefully Diagram 5 on the Mk4s isn't far away and availability is improving but both fleets, 197s and Mk4s need to improve availability and reliability as the 15x cover won't be there forever!

I wasn't expecting 20 diagrams, then again they do now have to cover all pembroke dock services some Fishguard services, the bay services and city line as well as heart of Wales without any other work they may be diagrammed.

Would 20 diagrams mean alot of single car working? Or would that be included 2 units which share a diagram?

 

[sd0733]

I wasn't expecting 20 diagrams, then again they do now have to cover all pembroke dock services some Fishguard services, the bay services and city line as well as heart of Wales without any other work they may be diagrammed.

Would 20 diagrams mean alot of single car working? Or would that be included 2 units which share a diagram?

Each single car will have its own diagram number, if it's booked for 3 153s, its 3 diagrams. Some may not stick together all day.
It's the same for any unit. Each one in a pair has a seperate diagram.

 

[childwallblues]

The hourly Chester to Liverpool Lime Street starts again tomorrow. The first train is 1F90 0542 from Chester for which 197020 is allocated.

The hourly servive has restarted. The two units on the service this morning are 197017 and 197112.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The hourly Chester to Liverpool Lime Street starts again tomorrow. The first train is 1F90 0542 from Chester for which 197020 is allocated.

Another small part of pre-COVID restored (most of the country's jigsaw is more or less complete now: a few commuter services in the South East won't be necessary anymore especially Fridays)

 

[Jez]

197 reliability needs to improve dramatically, there's been 5 failures just today, one barely making it round the corner from its first stop before losing power. Until it does increases in diagrams on any route are going to be difficult to resource.

I agree. Is there any reason why 197 reliability is so poor or is it a combination of factors?

How many 197 diagrams do we have now on a daily basis?

I wasn't expecting 20 diagrams, then again they do now have to cover all pembroke dock services some Fishguard services, the bay services and city line as well as heart of Wales without any other work they may be diagrammed.

Would 20 diagrams mean alot of single car working? Or would that be included 2 units which share a diagram?

I guess when you take into account whats needed for the HOWL and Pembroke Dock thats about 12 or 13 booked diagrams. Plus there are still some booked for Swanline (those not 197s that go to Chester/Manchester etc) Coryton/City Line, 1 on the Cardiff Bay shuttle and possibly some on Ebbw Vale (or are they all booked 150s?)

The hourly servive has restarted. The two units on the service this morning are 197017 and 197112.

Good to hear it has restarted and its also 197s!

 

[sd0733]

I agree. Is there any reason why 197 reliability is so poor or is it a combination of factors?

Most common faults in my experience are Transmission, Doors, Couplings, ASDO, Toilets, Engine Shutdowns so not far off everything in equal measures. I'm sure things will improve but it's not a great position for them at this point really.

I agree. Is there any reason why 197 reliability is so poor or is it a combination of factors?

How many 197 diagrams do we have now on a daily basis?

There's booked to be 33 diagrams for them, 30 in passenger use and 3 training sets.

I guess when you take into account whats needed for the HOWL and Pembroke Dock thats about 12 or 13 booked diagrams. Plus there are still some booked for Swanline (those not 197s that go to Chester/Manchester etc) Coryton/City Line, 1 on the Cardiff Bay shuttle and possibly some on Ebbw Vale (or are they all booked 150?1

Mostly 150 on those although there's a booked pair of 153s to Maesteg in the afternoon

Good to hear it has restarted and its also 197s!

There's not much else in the North now other than 197s!

 

[Jez]

Most common faults in my experience are Transmission, Doors, Couplings, ASDO, Toilets, Engine Shutdowns so not far off everything in equal measures. I'm sure things will improve but it's not a great position for them at this point really.


There's booked to be 33 diagrams for them, 30 in passenger use and 3 training sets.


Mostly 150 on those although there's a booked pair of 153s to Maesteg in the afternoon

Thank you.

I notice this week the 0532 Swansea-Manchester has been replaced by a bus between Swansea-Cardiff at 0424. Is this just for this week as I was planning on getting this one day next week (from Port Talbot) and hoping for a 197!

There's not much else in the North now other than 197s!

Yes thats true. Id forgotten the 150s and 153s dont tend to go to North Wales now, at least not booked workings.

 

[sd0733]

Thank you.

I notice this week the 0532 Swansea-Manchester has been replaced by a bus between Swansea-Cardiff at 0424. Is this just for this week as I was planning on getting this one day next week (from Port Talbot) and hoping for a 197

Believe there's some engineering work this week round Bridgend so likely just that.

Yes thats true. Id forgotten the 150s and 153s dont tend to go to North Wales now, at least not booked woworkings.

Yes on paper, Chester only sees 158s and 197s plus the daily Mk4 in each direction now although they do Still appear from time to time

 

[BenBracken]

TfW making big thing about the Chester - Liverpool hourly service today, with a pic of a 197. Does that mean 197s being nobbled from elsewhere and more 15x on long distance services? Or have new units been commissioned to cover? RTT has two cancellations this afternoon already to/from Chester due to train faults. Not a good start!

 

[Topological]

Thank you.

I notice this week the 0532 Swansea-Manchester has been replaced by a bus between Swansea-Cardiff at 0424. Is this just for this week as I was planning on getting this one day next week (from Port Talbot) and hoping for a 197!


Yes thats true. Id forgotten the 150s and 153s dont tend to go to North Wales now, at least not booked workings.

I assume it is affecting the ECS from Canton as the GWR is running (or at least it would let me book on it) and then 1W13 is starting from Cardiff.

I think 1W13 is a safe 197 now, it has been the last few times I used it. The only change is if the actual Mk4 turns up (Yes that diagram is not currently planned to be covered by a Mk4 but it is one of the diagrams that doesnt come back to Swansea and is marked with first class and a buffet in many timetables).

 

[Jez]

I assume it is affecting the ECS from Canton as the GWR is running (or at least it would let me book on it) and then 1W13 is starting from Cardiff.

I think 1W13 is a safe 197 now, it has been the last few times I used it. The only change is if the actual Mk4 turns up (Yes that diagram is not currently planned to be covered by a Mk4 but it is one of the diagrams that doesnt come back to Swansea and is marked with first class and a buffet in many timetables).

Yes i thought the same about the GWR running, perhaps the line is closed for the ECS from Canton as you said, which usually leaves Canton around 4am! Hopefully next week it will run as usual otherwise I assume i will be able to get the next train to Manchester from Port Talbot at 0706, dont fancy a bus 45 minutes earlier than the train, not at that hour of the morning anyway!

Yes its been a 197 nearly every day ive checked it recently. The only time ive seen a 150 is when the ECS was diverted via the vale.

TfW making big thing about the Chester - Liverpool hourly service today, with a pic of a 197. Does that mean 197s being nobbled from elsewhere and more 15x on long distance services? Or have new units been commissioned to cover? RTT has two cancellations this afternoon already to/from Chester due to train faults. Not a good start!

Well sd0733 said there are 30 passenger diagrams now, so if we include 6 for North Wales to Manchester, 1 for the Conwy Valley, 1 for Chester to Crewe, 2 for Liverpool and 2 for the Borderlands that would leave 18 for the Holyhead/Manchester/Cardiff to West Wales.

 

[Topological]

I do wish they would hurry up and clear 197s on the Vale of Glamorgan. It is a useful diversion for when the direct Bridgend to Cardiff floods.

 

[Jez]

I do wish they would hurry up and clear 197s on the Vale of Glamorgan. It is a useful diversion for when the direct Bridgend to Cardiff floods.

I agree. Lets hope there is no major engineering works planned until its cleared! Also probably less important but they need to clear the Swansea district line too. A usefui diversion for the Cardiff-Carmarthen/Milford's if they do engineering work immediately West of Swansea.

Have Maesteg-Cheltenham officially been cleared for passenger service and its just a case of waiting for more 197s to come into service before they get allocated to this route?

 

[childwallblues]

TfW making big thing about the Chester - Liverpool hourly service today, with a pic of a 197. Does that mean 197s being nobbled from elsewhere and more 15x on long distance services? Or have new units been commissioned to cover? RTT has two cancellations this afternoon already to/from Chester due to train faults. Not a good start!

197120 has just cume into service so there was no noobbling as you call it.

 

[sd0733]

197120 has just cume into service so there was no noobbling as you call it.

That's the 43rd unit to be accepted, should really be plenty to cover the 33 diagrams there comfortably.

 

[childwallblues]

197120 has just cume into service so there was no noobbling as you call it.

TfW making big thing about the Chester - Liverpool hourly service today, with a pic of a 197. Does that mean 197s being nobbled from elsewhere and more 15x on long distance services? Or have new units been commissioned to cover? RTT has two cancellations this afternoon already to/from Chester due to train faults. Not a good start!

In actual fact the 1542 service to Liverpool was cancelled due to the unit being taken off to work a service to Cardiff.