CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[MP393]

Which is why I am stressing that there is not even any timetabled TfW first class between Swansea and Manchester.

If I bought a first-class ticket I would be planning via Birmingham, but then I am more interested in the service than the Mk4s that may, or may not, be running that day. I would also not want the hassle of having to refund the difference because TfW had yet again sent a too-short standard class-only unit.

There is two Sunday workings which have 1st class on Swansea - Manchester, 10:32 & 14:55.

One on a Saturday, 1W13 05:30. This is a mk4 on a Saturday, but not M-F at present and is in systems as Standard only on Mon-Fri, 1st & Standard on Saturdays.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 05:32 SWA-MAN and 16:30 MAN-SWA have it, though it's not great to only have 1tpd in either direction.

Topological and I both live on the route. We can tell you with certainty that the former service is predominantly a 197, whatever it’s booked for.

 

[Jez]

The 05:32 SWA-MAN and 16:30 MAN-SWA have it, though it's not great to only have 1tpd in either direction.

The 0532 Swansea is booked for a 197 so its actually only one service in one direction Monday-Friday but 2 in each direction on a Sunday.

 

[Lurcheroo]

No first class from Swansea to Manchester that I know of.

But let's not let that get in the way of a correct criticism of TfW marketing.

I appreciate people want to defend TfW.

However, it remains true that TfW do not provide first class on any services that depart from Swansea today, or any other day at the moment.

Which is why I am stressing that there is not even any timetabled TfW first class between Swansea and Manchester.

1V50 16:30 Manchester to Swansea is booked a MK4 today.
I don’t mean to be rude but you should really fact check what you’re saying.
I’m not saying it’s a great service and I would like to see more through workings but their marketing is correct.

 

[Jez]

1V50 16:30 Manchester to Swansea is booked a MK4 today.
I don’t mean to be rude but you should really fact check what you’re saying.
I’m not saying it’s a great service and I would like to see more through workings but their marketing is correct.

I think he means none from Swansea TO Manchester rather than Swansea from Manchester. Which aside from weekends there aren't any at present.

A 197 is booked for the one from Swansea that will eventually be a MK4 working.

 

[robert thomas]

Not on TfW I presume.

The fact that there has always been a fare that works via Bristol Parkway is neither here nor there.

Unless you think it is kind of TfW to promote GWR in this way.

I suspect we are all talking about the fact that TfW are trying to upsell their own first class product, but that they do not actually offer that product on the routes in their advertising.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I think he means none from Swansea TO Manchester rather than Swansea from Manchester. Which aside from weekends there aren't any at present.

A 197 is booked for the one from Swansea that will eventually be a MK4 working.

Ahh I see, that’s fair but should likely see it covered by a MK4 once the 5 coach programme is completed and reliability is sorted.

But still, to try and say that TFW are lying and that there marketing is wrong is simply false.
I’m all for the allocation of blame and criticism but it needs to be correct or it’s worthless. I know I’m seen on here to be ‘defending’ them quite a lot but it’s mostly just trying to ensure people have factually correct critiques of TFW/welshgov. Like saying that their marketing which says 1st class is available between Manchester and Swansea, yes it’s not many services but it is available, even if only Saturdays at the moment.

I’d like to see a lot more from TFW personally but they’re making steps in the right direction.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I’d like to see a lot more from TFW personally but they’re making steps in the right direction.

Bingo, but booked 5-car Manchester to South Wales on nearly all services will be a relief to many.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Bingo, but booked 5-car Manchester to South Wales on nearly all services will be a relief to many.

It absolutely will!
TFW have publicly said that too much has been done in too short of a time frame that has caused the absolute chaos that has been seen. But the whole plan was set out by Keolis - Amey so it was too late once welshgov took the reigns.

Once everything has been sorted and it has all calmed down I would be interested to see what improvements TFW want to do afterwards.

 

[Jamesrob637]

It absolutely will!
TFW have publicly said that too much has been done in too short of a time frame that has caused the absolute chaos that has been seen. But the whole plan was set out by Keolis - Amey so it was too late once welshgov took the reigns.

Once everything has been sorted and it has all calmed down I would be interested to see what improvements TFW want to do afterwards.

Do you/does anybody think all 197s will have entered traffic by the June timetable change, which is admittedly on the 1st so barely into the month?

 

[Jez]

Ahh I see, that’s fair but should likely see it covered by a MK4 once the 5 coach programme is completed and reliability is sorted.

But still, to try and say that TFW are lying and that there marketing is wrong is simply false.
I’m all for the allocation of blame and criticism but it needs to be correct or it’s worthless. I know I’m seen on here to be ‘defending’ them quite a lot but it’s mostly just trying to ensure people have factually correct critiques of TFW/welshgov. Like saying that their marketing which says 1st class is available between Manchester and Swansea, yes it’s not many services but it is available, even if only Saturdays at the moment.

I’d like to see a lot more from TFW personally but they’re making steps in the right direction.

I get your point. Perhaps them being slightly misleading would be more accurate than lying.

And believe me I've defended TFW to other people (who are not train enthusiasts) myself! Some people simply don't understand that TFW can't magic up extra carriages when services are busy!

Do you/does anybody think all 197s will have entered traffic by the June timetable change, which is admittedly on the 1st so barely into the month?

Hopefully by June the majority of the 197s will be on service (not Cambrian ones) and most services will be at least 4 carriages on the Marches.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Hopefully by June the majority of the 197s will be on service (not Cambrian ones) and most services will be at least 4 carriages on the Marches.

Thanks, I meant to write Cambria excluded.

 

[Jez]

Thanks, I meant to write Cambria excluded.

They may start to introduce the Cambrian 197s and use them on other routes initially. Any extra capacity will be very welcome with them covering Maesteg etc as a temporary measure.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Hopefully by June the majority of the 197s will be on service (not Cambrian ones) and most services will be at least 4 carriages on the Marches

I’d say no way they’ll all be in service by June, acceptance rate is less than 1 per week. And there’s 21 ERTMS units alone to come in.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’d say no way they’ll all be in service by June, acceptance rate is less than 1 per week. And there’s 21 ERTMS units alone to come in.

He did say not Cambrian ones, and those are the 21 ERTMS ones of course.

 

[Jez]

He did say not Cambrian ones, and those are the 21 ERTMS ones of course.

Yes i was thinking more about the remaining 3 car ones that are not in service yet

 

[Topological]

1V50 16:30 Manchester to Swansea is booked a MK4 today.
I don’t mean to be rude but you should really fact check what you’re saying.
I’m not saying it’s a great service and I would like to see more through workings but their marketing is correct.

To be fair I had forgotten that there is a booked Mk4 on a Sunday. If TfW provide full first class service on a Sunday then that is something others do not provide.

As has been pointed out many times the 05:32 is not booked Mk4 (I also use the 18:30 from Cardiff on that diagram). So there is a service from Manchester (The 16:30) but there isn't one in both directions. I also struggle to see that one service would be sufficient to claim general availability (especially given the 05:32 is so early in the morning)

To me, the Mk4 represents a major inconvenience because we used to have hourly services between Swansea and Manchester and I could leave Manchester after 16:30 and still get a direct train. There is also the knock-on effect of two extra terminators at Cardiff (one from Manchester and one from the West) creating issues with Cardiff platforms.

One day there will be a 197 service, but there is not one now.

 

[Lurcheroo]

He did say not Cambrian ones, and those are the 21 ERTMS ones of course.

Yes i was thinking more about the remaining 3 car ones that are not in service yet

Sorry I was actually intending to reply to JamesRob637

Might get a good way through the 3 cars by June.

 

[BillStampy]

197118, 048 and 050 are on Maesteg Cheltenham today, 118 being a standard plus unit...

 

[Jez]

To me, the Mk4 represents a major inconvenience because we used to have hourly services between Swansea and Manchester and I could leave Manchester after 16:30 and still get a direct train. There is also the knock-on effect of two extra terminators at Cardiff (one from Manchester and one from the West) creating issues with Cardiff platforms.

I totally agree. As someone living West of Cardiff and travels to Manchester fairly often its a lot less useful now it's split at Cardiff every other hour. I used to often use the 1830 Manchester to Carmarthen.

197118, 048 and 050 are on Maesteg Cheltenham today, 118 being a standard plus unit...

Wow that will be nice for people on what is a branch line to have a 197 with standard plus !

 

[BillStampy]

Wow that will be nice for people on what is a branch line to have a 197 with standard plus !

Feels like a similar story to 170 declassified first class, just a little different this time!

 

[anthony263]

I totally agree. As someone living West of Cardiff and travels to Manchester fairly often its a lot less useful now it's split at Cardiff every other hour. I used to often use the 1830 Manchester to Carmarthen.


Wow that will be nice for people on what is a branch line to have a 197 with standard plus !

People of Maesteg would be quite happy to see a train actually make it to Maesteg instead of terminating at Bridgend or Tondu

 

[Lurcheroo]

Potentially interesting news for those interested in the Cambrian. hearing from a different but also credible source at the depot today that ‘they’ (I can only assume the upper management of TFW) want 197’s on the Cambrian by the end of the year. It was being confirmed who did and didn’t already sign the 197’s at Mach. There’s not many but there’s a few.

I personally wouldn’t hold out any hope as we know how these things go, but clearly something is going on to have stirred up the fuss combined with the news article I posted previously.

 

[BillStampy]

People of Maesteg would be quite happy to see a train actually make it to Maesteg instead of terminating at Bridgend or Tondu

That would be nice too... though that rarely happens at the moment

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197118, 048 and 050 are on Maesteg Cheltenham today, 118 being a standard plus unit...

Oh dear, while a 150 does Milford Manchester. Haha.

Potentially interesting news for those interested in the Cambrian. hearing from a different but also credible source at the depot today that ‘they’ (I can only assume the upper management of TFW) want 197’s on the Cambrian by the end of the year. It was being confirmed who did and didn’t already sign the 197’s at Mach. There’s not many but there’s a few.

I personally wouldn’t hold out any hope as we know how these things go, but clearly something is going on to have stirred up the fuss combined with the news article I posted previously.

Fantastic. Though I must say, the 158s I find to be very nice and would certainly tolerate for longer than I would the 150s. It’s a lot easier to get the train back to Cathays than walk it, but the unpleasant ten minute slog on those things is enough to push me to get my steps in instead. And these are doing six hour end to ends today!

 

[Lurcheroo]

Fantastic. Though I must say, the 158s I find to be very nice and would certainly tolerate for longer than I would the 150s. It’s a lot easier to get the train back to Cathays than walk it, but the unpleasant ten minute slog on those things is enough to push me to get my steps in instead. And these are doing six hour end to ends today!

Yes the 158’s are definitely the best out of the sprinter fleet, but even those are tired, rattley , drafty and leaky. (Especially for us poor sod’s in the front! There’s a reason the non driving side of the cab is known as Pneumonia corner by some instructors ) I really do not like the 150’s so I’d be fine with a 10 minute walk haha! A 3 hour trip on one Would be more than I would ever want hah.

I look forward to the 197’s as both a passenger and driver.

 

[Jez]

The 158's are definately the best of the Sprinters by a long way. In fact before the 175s had their 'TFW refurbishment' around 2019 I preferred a 158 over a 175.

I noticed when riding a 197 earlier on the acceleration between Swanline stops is excellent - it felt like it almost got up to full speed between a few of the stops - when they replace the Sprinters on all Swanline and we get the hourly service it will certainly be a lot better for both timing and more frequent service.

 

[anthony263]

The 158's are definately the best of the Sprinters by a long way. In fact before the 175s had their 'TFW refurbishment' around 2019 I preferred a 158 over a 175.

I noticed when riding a 197 earlier on the acceleration between Swanline stops is excellent - it felt like it almost got up to full speed between a few of the stops - when they replace the Sprinters on all Swanline and we get the hourly service it will certainly be a lot better for both timing and more frequent service.

Oh yes . Thev3 carriage class 175s could easilyeave Swansea ontime abd get to Neath early. Certainly the reduced journey times will help as Swanline needs to pick up extra stops at Pencoed and Pontyclun

 

[BillStampy]

Oh yes . Thev3 carriage class 175s could easilyeave Swansea ontime abd get to Neath early. Certainly the reduced journey times will help as Swanline needs to pick up extra stops at Pencoed and Pontyclun

I'd love the Swanline services to pick up all 3 between Bridgend and Cardiff, Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun. All 3 normally only have around 1 train per hour in each direction (not including peak times). So if you miss or cannot get on a train due to overcrowding, which i experienced a while back, you are screwed for an hour. Especially important when trying to get somewhere on time...

 

[Lurcheroo]

I'd love the Swanline services to pick up all 3 between Bridgend and Cardiff, Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun. All 3 normally only have around 1 train per hour in each direction (not including peak times). So if you miss or cannot get on a train due to overcrowding, which i experienced a while back, you are screwed for an hour. Especially important when trying to get somewhere on time...

Anyone know if plans have been confirmed ? I had heard that TFW wanted to improve timetables that only the 197’s would keep to. Perhaps this type of thing would be part of that ?