• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

craigybagel

Established Member
Joined
25 Oct 2012
Messages
5,097
The 158's are definately the best of the Sprinters by a long way. In fact before the 175s had their 'TFW refurbishment' around 2019 I preferred a 158 over a 175.

I noticed when riding a 197 earlier on the acceleration between Swanline stops is excellent - it felt like it almost got up to full speed between a few of the stops - when they replace the Sprinters on all Swanline and we get the hourly service it will certainly be a lot better for both timing and more frequent service.
As far as I know, the only 100mph section has Pyle in the middle of it, so it probably can't go full speed, but given the acceleration on the 197s it should still give a good show.
I'd love the Swanline services to pick up all 3 between Bridgend and Cardiff, Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun. All 3 normally only have around 1 train per hour in each direction (not including peak times). So if you miss or cannot get on a train due to overcrowding, which i experienced a while back, you are screwed for an hour. Especially important when trying to get somewhere on time...

Anyone know if plans have been confirmed ? I had heard that TFW wanted to improve timetables that only the 197’s would keep to. Perhaps this type of thing would be part of that ?
The original plan was for Swanline to go all stops as an hourly service to give 2tph as far as Bridgend.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Jez

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2011
Messages
1,322
Location
Neath
As far as I know, the only 100mph section has Pyle in the middle of it, so it probably can't go full speed, but given the acceleration on the 197s it should still give a good show.
Sorry I should have been clear, I was more referring to the maximum speed on a particular section of the route rather than the 197's top speed of 100mph. It probably wasnt at the maximum speed even for that section (Swanline stops near Neath/Port Talbot area) , it just felt like it was so much faster between these frequent station stops than when a 153 runs it.

I was on 197120 today and it appears the first class sign on the door to standard plus has been removed. The lady with the trolley was discussing it was another member of staff who was sat in standard plus and she even went to check. It seems the staff are just as confused about what is happening!
 

BillStampy

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2024
Messages
217
Location
Llanharan
Only a double 197 on the Maesteg - Cheltenham service today, due to be at Gloucester overnight (supposing nothing happens, which it probably will change)
 

sd0733

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2012
Messages
3,661
Only a double 197 on the Maesteg - Cheltenham service today, due to be at Gloucester overnight (supposing nothing happens, which it probably will change)
Booked 4 car and overnight in Gloucester so unless something happens through the day it should stay on diagram
 

BillStampy

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2024
Messages
217
Location
Llanharan
Booked 4 car and overnight in Gloucester so unless something happens through the day it should stay on diagram
Now 197118 swap for it to go to Holyhead.

Currently on 197118 back home, sitting in Standard plus. These seats are great! Very comfy to be sat in. Hopefully more diagrams on Maesteg Cheltenham soon. Maybe a full 197 day sometime next week if we are lucky!
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20240224_155729960.jpg
    PXL_20240224_155729960.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 86
Last edited:

sd0733

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2012
Messages
3,661
Just after 17.00 today there was a 3 car 197 at the north end LNWR depot are ideas. TIA.
116 is there now but can't guarantee not swapped in the meantime

From tomorrow (Mon 26th) there are 4 all day 197 diagrams on Maesteg-Cheltenham which puts Gloucester/Cheltenham to 100% booked 197s and means the only booked 15x to Maesteg are now the 17:23 from Cardiff (2x153) and 22:37 from Cardiff (1x150).
 
Last edited:

BillStampy

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2024
Messages
217
Location
Llanharan
From tomorrow (Mon 26th) there are 4 all day 197 diagrams on Maesteg-Cheltenham which puts Gloucester/Cheltenham to 100% booked 197s and means the only booked 15x to Maesteg are now the 17:23 from Cardiff (2x153) and 22:37 from Cardiff (1x150).
1723 was pathed as a 150 from Canton all the way up till the moment the service started on Friday, so it is still probably booked 15X as you've stated but can be swapped last moment? as it was a 150 about 10 minutes before it became a 197. Also good to hear full 197 diagrams up for tomorrow, wondering whats heading up to Gloucester tonight as nothing has been pathed as of yet.
 

sd0733

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2012
Messages
3,661
1723 was pathed as a 150 from Canton all the way up till the moment the service started on Friday, so it is still probably booked 15X as you've stated but can be swapped last moment? as it was a 150 about 10 minutes before it became a 197. Also good to hear full 197 diagrams up for tomorrow, wondering whats heading up to Gloucester tonight as nothing has been pathed as of yet.
Its still a 2x153 diagram the 1723 but it comes off Canton and goes back there after so realistically they can use anything available off Canton if needed.
The 150 on the 2237 comes directly from Penarth to form it so very likely to be a 150.

The Gloucester start tomorrow is booked 2 car 197 it doesn't do anything until it leaves Canton at 18:18 tonight so isn't allocated just yet.
 

BillStampy

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2024
Messages
217
Location
Llanharan
The Gloucester start tomorrow is booked 2 car 197 it doesn't do anything until it leaves Canton at 18:18 tonight so isn't allocated just yet.
Now allocated as 197011. Full 197 diagrams tomorrow means the ones that would usually form these services can be used for Treherbert's reopening tomorrow.

EDIT: Nevermind its been unallocated again!
 
Last edited:

Jez

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2011
Messages
1,322
Location
Neath
116 is there now but can't guarantee not swapped in the meantime

From tomorrow (Mon 26th) there are 4 all day 197 diagrams on Maesteg-Cheltenham which puts Gloucester/Cheltenham to 100% booked 197s and means the only booked 15x to Maesteg are now the 17:23 from Cardiff (2x153) and 22:37 from Cardiff (1x150).
It looks like a 150 is on one of the booked 197 Maesteg/CHeltenham diagrams today but the others look to be 197s.

There is also a 153/150 combination and a single 150 covering for services on the Manchester-Carmarthen route, plus another 150 covering a MK4. It looks like 197 availability may have dropped again today.
 

Topological

Member
Joined
20 Feb 2023
Messages
795
Location
Swansea
So we have 197s on Maesteg and 150s on Manchester over a year after the 175 debacle.

No doubt something to do with mileage and the 197s on the Maesteg not having enough miles to go to Manchester on the diagram the 150 is doing. Does not look good from a layperson perspective though.
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
5,277
So we have 197s on Maesteg and 150s on Manchester over a year after the 175 debacle.

No doubt something to do with mileage and the 197s on the Maesteg not having enough miles to go to Manchester on the diagram the 150 is doing. Does not look good from a layperson perspective though.

I am very lucky that, the few times I've done Manchester-Cardiff or V-V, it's been 158 or 175, so a smooth quiet ride. Just what's needed on a Sunday afternoon.
 

185

Established Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
5,026
Another small, local train, a 150 on the over-three hour journey & three hour back to Cardiff has just passed the WCML Viaduct approaching Manchester Piccadilly. The train it passed going to Knutsford & Delamere looks luxurious in comparison.

So many 197s out in traffic - this probably should not be happening. I wonder if Network Rail could helpfully prohibit sub 90mph passenger trains between Crewe and Cheadle Hulme?

It's a shocking situation when Northern run faster local trains than TFWs junk allocated to 3 hour intercity services.
 

Topological

Member
Joined
20 Feb 2023
Messages
795
Location
Swansea
Another small, local train, a 150 on the over-three hour journey & three hour back to Cardiff has just passed the WCML Viaduct approaching Manchester Piccadilly. The train it passed going to Knutsford & Delamere looks luxurious in comparison.

So many 197s out in traffic - this probably should not be happening. I wonder if Network Rail could helpfully prohibit sub 90mph passenger trains between Crewe and Cheadle Hulme?

It's a shocking situation when Northern run faster local trains than TFWs junk allocated to 3 hour intercity services.
IF it was not for the Mk4 vanity project severing so many direct trains from West Wales to Manchester that train would be an over 4-hour intercity service.

More 197s should have been ordered and more provisions made to service the 197s so there was no reason for 197s to go onto local diagrams near Cardiff because they do not have the mileage to get to Manchester (Please note that there is no evidence to support the statement that is why they are on Maesteg today and not Manchester, but if the units doing Maesteg could have made it to Manchester then questions should be asked about allocations)

Instead, we have Mk4 offering which runs sometimes but cannot make it through a week without missing diagrams. Suggesting they get through a day without missing a diagram is generously allowing for the fact the 10:30 and 18:30 from Manchester should be Mk4 but are not currently booked as one (before any TfW apologist tries to say that isn't a Mk4 diagram)

It is pretty clear there is no incentive for TfW to run the Manchester service properly.
 

Lurcheroo

Member
Joined
21 Sep 2021
Messages
555
Location
Wales
IF it was not for the Mk4 vanity project severing so many direct trains from West Wales to Manchester that train would be an over 4-hour intercity service.

More 197s should have been ordered and more provisions made to service the 197s so there was no reason for 197s to go onto local diagrams near Cardiff because they do not have the mileage to get to Manchester (Please note that there is no evidence to support the statement that is why they are on Maesteg today and not Manchester, but if the units doing Maesteg could have made it to Manchester then questions should be asked about allocations)

Instead, we have Mk4 offering which runs sometimes but cannot make it through a week without missing diagrams. Suggesting they get through a day without missing a diagram is generously allowing for the fact the 10:30 and 18:30 from Manchester should be Mk4 but are not currently booked as one (before any TfW apologist tries to say that isn't a Mk4 diagram)

It is pretty clear there is no incentive for TfW to run the Manchester service properly.
TFW do not want 150’s on that service and all 150’s will eventually leave TFW and you will only see 197’s and MK4’s on Manchester services as that will be all they have.

There a still over a third of the 197 fleet to coke into service yet. How you can state that TFW should have ordered more baffles me.
 

185

Established Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
5,026
TFW do not want 150’s on that service
At present, right now I see 197s on:-

- The 20 minute Chester Crewe shuttle
- The Blaenau Fff thing
- The 17 minute Llandudno to the Junction shuttle (a different set)
- The Wrexham Bidston fair weather bus service with occasional trains

The village of Chirk has just seen two 4-car 158s call with services that only really get busy in the West Miss.

Whilst yet another, SECOND 150 has just rolled out of Milford Haven also heading to Manchester.

That, is utter contempt by Transport for Some. Some time ago, one member told us 197s will NOT (capital letters) be running as 2 car sets except to Pwllheli. Well, that didn't happen.
 

FrodshamJnct

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2019
Messages
3,476
Location
Cheshire
At present, right now I see 197s on:-

- The 20 minute Chester Crewe shuttle
- The Blaenau Fff thing
- The 17 minute Llandudno to the Junction shuttle (a different set)
- The Wrexham Bidston fair weather bus service with occasional trains

The village of Chirk has just seen two 4-car 158s call with services that only really get busy in the West Miss.

Whilst yet another, SECOND 150 has just rolled out of Milford Haven also heading to Manchester.

That, is utter contempt by Transport for Some. Some time ago, one member told us 197s will NOT (capital letters) be running as 2 car sets except to Pwllheli. Well, that didn't happen.

Also currently on services like Holyhead to Manchester Airport and Chester to Liverpool.
 

Topological

Member
Joined
20 Feb 2023
Messages
795
Location
Swansea
TFW do not want 150’s on that service and all 150’s will eventually leave TFW and you will only see 197’s and MK4’s on Manchester services as that will be all they have.

At present, right now I see 197s on:-

- The 20 minute Chester Crewe shuttle
- The Blaenau Fff thing
- The 17 minute Llandudno to the Junction shuttle (a different set)
- The Wrexham Bidston fair weather bus service with occasional trains

The village of Chirk has just seen two 4-car 158s call with services that only really get busy in the West Miss.

Whilst yet another, SECOND 150 has just rolled out of Milford Haven also heading to Manchester.

That, is utter contempt by Transport for Some. Some time ago, one member told us 197s will NOT (capital letters) be running as 2 car sets except to Pwllheli. Well, that didn't happen.
There is even a 3 car on Maesteg

Can someone please confirm that all units on the Maesteg could not have possibly made it to Manchester today.
 

craigybagel

Established Member
Joined
25 Oct 2012
Messages
5,097
Another small, local train, a 150 on the over-three hour journey & three hour back to Cardiff has just passed the WCML Viaduct approaching Manchester Piccadilly. The train it passed going to Knutsford & Delamere looks luxurious in comparison.

So many 197s out in traffic - this probably should not be happening. I wonder if Network Rail could helpfully prohibit sub 90mph passenger trains between Crewe and Cheadle Hulme?

It's a shocking situation when Northern run faster local trains than TFWs junk allocated to 3 hour intercity services.
150s keep to time along that section. No need to ban them.
Could a 231 be used as a replacement for a 197 or Mk 4 on a Manchester diagram?
No. As far as I know few if any Cardiff mainline drivers are qualified on them, and in any case they could only take them as far as Crewe. No Crewe or Shrewsbury drivers sign them at all and they're required for the run to Manchester. They're also not route cleared.
 

BillStampy

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2024
Messages
217
Location
Llanharan
There is even a 3 car on Maesteg

Can someone please confirm that all units on the Maesteg could not have possibly made it to Manchester today.
197048 was swapped off this morning. 197109 should be able to but it is stuck in Gloucester overnight so thats gonna be stuck. I feel as if they probably should be but TfW seems to be focusing onto new clearances at the moment and getting 150s off Maesteg - Cheltenham for Treherbert. Which has reopened today. But I don't know why so many 150s are on Manchesters today, it shouldn't be happening
 

Anonymous10

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2019
Messages
2,084
Location
wales
Another small, local train, a 150 on the over-three hour journey & three hour back to Cardiff has just passed the WCML Viaduct approaching Manchester Piccadilly. The train it passed going to Knutsford & Delamere looks luxurious in comparison.

So many 197s out in traffic - this probably should not be happening. I wonder if Network Rail could helpfully prohibit sub 90mph passenger trains between Crewe and Cheadle Hulme?

It's a shocking situation when Northern run faster local trains than TFWs junk allocated to 3 hour intercity services.
And yet if you do that there'll be cancelled trains as at present the 15x are the easiest to sub in.

Could a 231 be used as a replacement for a 197 or Mk 4 on a Manchester diagram?
No, they don't have any mainline crew trained to My knowledge and certainly no crew outside of Cardiff.

At present, right now I see 197s on:-

- The 20 minute Chester Crewe shuttle
- The Blaenau Fff thing
- The 17 minute Llandudno to the Junction shuttle (a different set)
- The Wrexham Bidston fair weather bus service with occasional trains

The village of Chirk has just seen two 4-car 158s call with services that only really get busy in the West Miss.

Whilst yet another, SECOND 150 has just rolled out of Milford Haven also heading to Manchester.

That, is utter contempt by Transport for Some. Some time ago, one member told us 197s will NOT (capital letters) be running as 2 car sets except to Pwllheli. Well, that didn't happen.
Will not when the complete fleet has entered service was no doubt the meaning, if you want them in multiple you can't have them on all their diagrams. They are now to cover all work outside the valleys and cambrian for the most part while some of the fleet is yet to enter service.
 
Last edited:

Lurcheroo

Member
Joined
21 Sep 2021
Messages
555
Location
Wales
Could a 231 be used as a replacement for a 197 or Mk 4 on a Manchester diagram?
No, at current only the 197’s and MK4’s will go north of Newport towards Shrewsbury and there’s no definitively known plan to clear them north of Newport either.

That, is utter contempt by Transport for Some. Some time ago, one member told us 197s will NOT (capital letters) be running as 2 car sets except to Pwllheli. Well, that didn't happen.
Still a long way off the full fleet being ready and 197’s are covering some of what will become the FLIRTS work I believe (perhaps someone could confirm?).

There will be 2 cars just on the very lightly loaded services like the first one back from Birmingham Newstreet in the Morning. But having the whole 197 fleet available will dramatically reduced the number of overcrowded services as all busy services will be strengthened. Weather that be overcrowded 2 cars becoming 4 or very busy 4 cars becoming 5 and 6’s.

Pwllheli is an outlier as during summer 2 cars is inadequate on many services but there is no plan to increase capacity excluding the 1x4car each way that was approved last summer.
I have actually asked TFW about it, no response as of yet.
 

Jez

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2011
Messages
1,322
Location
Neath
According to RTT 1504 Milford Haven to Manchester was a 150 today. I suppose at least a second 150 was found so it ran as 4 carriages from Cardiff which its usually a pair of 2 car 197s.

At present, right now I see 197s on:-

- The 20 minute Chester Crewe shuttle
- The Blaenau Fff thing
- The 17 minute Llandudno to the Junction shuttle (a different set)
- The Wrexham Bidston fair weather bus service with occasional trains
These are all booked 197s. There arent many Sprinters used in the North aside the 158s that interact with the Cambrian services so it would be difficult to sub any of these rather than the Manchester to South Wales.

There is even a 3 car on Maesteg

Can someone please confirm that all units on the Maesteg could not have possibly made it to Manchester today.
It would be interesting to know how many 197 diagrams there are now that Maesteg has booked workings. And how many they were short by today. Reliability was pretty good over the past few weeks for 197s, even when a MK4 needed cover it was a 197 the majority of the time.
 
Last edited:

Top