CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[SuperLuke2334]

The 197s are a huge move forward in comfort for drivers, the seats have multiple ways to be adjusted. They are on a pedestal like a 175 so you don't have all the vibration going through your back.
The DSD pedal has height adjustment, there's foot heaters and an air con / heating that actually works. The hvac works a bit too well though and needs some mods.

The civicity is a huge step up from what tfw presently uses, drivers even get a bin and cup holder. Unfortunately the 2nd man's seat has height and lumbar support issues that will be resolved before they get accepted.

"We've"?

They're as big a leap ahead of 175s as the 175s are from Sprinters. I can't wait to be driving them regularly, it's going to make 3 hour drives so much more comfortable.

Thanks for the information both, great to know that the drivers have a great working environment as well as the passengers.

 

[wobman]

Cotton Hill sidings next to Shrewsbury Station is a possibility for 197s storage, it's a big area with good road access

 

[krus_aragon]

Llandudno Junction will be used for the slate traffic we've been told, so there's no chance of that being used.
But Holyhead will be used and possibly Llandudno town sidings, there's rumours the bache loop at Chester is being considered.

Thanks. My subconscious still remembers several sidings at Junction, leading me to over-estimate the space available. I hope that slate traffic does eventually materialise. EWS spent enough time squatting on the Junction sidings (preventing others from using it while making no use of it themselves); let's hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

Plan is to stable up to 5 197s there when they are in service. This will eliminate the ECS from Chester and Crewe in the long run.

A member of Junction Depot staff told me they were advised against going there when recruited long ago, as the depot was so small and was sure to be closed. Long may its resurgence continue!

 

[6Gtraincrew]

A member of Junction Depot staff told me they were advised against going there when recruited long ago, as the depot was so small and was sure to be closed. Long may its resurgence continue!

The Junction is closing rumours have been going on for donkeys years, but we're still going strong and have more guards and drivers than we've had for a long long time

 

[wobman]

Surely that is a physical impossibility ? AIUI Chester depot is to be handed over to be a facility for maintaining CAF 197s so the twenty plus 175s will need to be gone to make room. I see a Crown Point type situation where the existing GA fleet was having to run the service whilst Stadlers were introduced, resulting in new sidings being laid on a preserved railway. How much room is there at Oswestry !!!!!

Not if there's facilities for unit storage, the 197s probably won't be in service on time. No new train introduction is ever as to plan, the initial plan was 1x197 in and 1x175 out. But this doesn't take into account any reliability issues with the new units.
Tfw are looking at unit storage locations around their depots, the plans are all ever-changing

 

[wobman]

The Junction is closing rumours have been going on for donkeys years, but we're still going strong and have more guards and drivers than we've had for a long long time

Tfw are increasing the staffing numbers at Llandudno Junction and all of its depots, there's more work coming to the depot in the future.
Plus there's going to be units stored at Llandudno hopefully, as tfw want more portion working on their network.

The slate traffic is here to stay I've been told, the slate is needed for the cement industry. There's been big investment at Llandudno Junction sidings for the work.

 

[Doveymain158]

Looks like there is going to be a few 197 runs late Tues early Weds morning from Crewe to Wolverhampton via Shrewsbury next week

 

[Jacob Porrett]

**Mr Donnington Update (9/4/22)**

The TFW Class 197/0 that had half a unit is now a full unit (behind 196113) and WMR Class 196113 is now a 4 car unit.

Looks like there is going to be a few 197 runs late Tues early Weds morning from Crewe to Wolverhampton via Shrewsbury next week

Ooooh tell me more please.

Cotton Hill sidings next to Shrewsbury Station is a possibility for 197s storage, it's a big area with good road access

That seems silly though because that is where the stone train goes to collect the stone to take it to various locations so you can't fill it up with units because there will be no room for the stone train.

 

[Doveymain158]

**Mr Donnington Update (9/4/22)**

The TFW Class 197/0 that had half a unit is now a full unit (behind 196113) and WMR Class 196113 is now a 4 car unit.


Ooooh tell me more please.


That seems silly though because that is where the stone train goes to collect the stone to take it to various locations so you can't fill it up with units because there will be no room for the stone train.

Realtime Trains | 577P 2228 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 12/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 577P 2228 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 12/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 583P 2345 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 12/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 583P 2345 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 12/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 585P 0130 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 13/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 585P 0130 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 13/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 586P 0245 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 13/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 586P 0245 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 13/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 587P 0355 Wolverhampton to Crewe C.S. | 13/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 587P 0355 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe C.S. on 13/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Thank you. Only night time at the moment then?

Realtime Trains | 577P 2228 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 12/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 577P 2228 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 12/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 583P 2345 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 12/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 583P 2345 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 12/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 585P 0130 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 13/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 585P 0130 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 13/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 586P 0245 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 13/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 586P 0245 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 13/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 587P 0355 Wolverhampton to Crewe C.S. | 13/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 587P 0355 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe C.S. on 13/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thank you. Only during the night at the moment then?

 

[wobman]

**Mr Donnington Update (9/4/22)**

The TFW Class 197/0 that had half a unit is now a full unit (behind 196113) and WMR Class 196113 is now a 4 car unit.


Ooooh tell me more please.


That seems silly though because that is where the stone train goes to collect the stone to take it to various locations so you can't fill it up with units because there will be no room for the stone train.

Cotton Hill siding are very big and if they use the other roads it wouldn't effect the stone trains, the 197s may get a bit dusty though. The location to Shrewsbury tfw depot is also a positive, there's not many alternatives in the area.

 

[tomuk]

Coton Hill Yard has 4 roads each about 230 metres long. The stone train is loaded in on the road furthest from the running lines. The yard is also used by the Avanti Shrewsbury to London Voyager to recess and also by charter/steam specials particularly Locomotive Services who also run test trains there.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Cotton Hill siding are very big and if they use the other roads it wouldn't effect the stone trains, the 197s may get a bit dusty though. The location to Shrewsbury tfw depot is also a positive, there's not many alternatives in the area.

Abbey Forgate Sidings gets used daily so storing 197s there isn't really an option to be honest.

Coton Hill Yard has 4 roads each about 230 metres long. The stone train is loaded in on the road furthest from the running lines. The yard is also used by the Avanti Shrewsbury to London Voyager to recess and also by charter/steam specials particularly Locomotive Services who also run test trains there.

So my point still stands then. Pointless storing units when it gets used frequently by other trains.

 

[wobman]

Abbey Forgate Sidings gets used daily so storing 197s there isn't really an option to be honest.


So my point still stands then. Pointless storing units when it gets used frequently by other trains.

Abbey forgate is not cotton Hill, they are different sidings. As said by other posters it can be used by other operators if required, so tfw could potentially use the sidings for 197 storage.

What are the alternative locations for unit storage once the majority of non ects units have been delivered ???

 

[sd0733]

Abbey Forgate Sidings gets used daily so storing 197s there isn't really an option to be honest.

You're right it isnt an option but no-ones mentioned using Abbey Foregate, Coton Hill and Abbey Foregate are different places at opposite ends of the station.

 

[wobman]

Thanks for the information both, great to know that the drivers have a great working environment as well as the passengers.

Don't worry there's still many teething problems in the driving cab to resolve, most are easily solvable though.
The 2nd man's seat will need replacing as the seat has most people sitting with their feet in the air ! The back rest is uncomfortable aswell, an alternative is being looked at. Maybe adding a footrest is a short-term solution.

The HVAC air con is problematic as there's a vent on the PBC hand, this blows a powerful blast of air on your hand all day. Its not very comfortable and having a closing vent will resolve that thank goodness.

Its like anything new there will be issues to resolve once real testing starts by the toc not the mileage accumulation foc, these issues never seem to be found when the first phase of testing hapofor some reason !

 

[wobman]

You're right it isnt an option but no-ones mentioned using Abbey Foregate, Coton Hill and Abbey Foregate are different places at opposite ends of the station.

Apparently abbey foregate is getting 2 more roads reinstated, as tfw and wmt will have more units and require more space.
In the future All tfw depots will be busier once the new units and added services start, there needs to be solutions for the 197s storage problems.

 

[craigybagel]

Abbey Forgate Sidings gets used daily so storing 197s there isn't really an option to be honest.


So my point still stands then. Pointless storing units when it gets used frequently by other trains.

No, what's been pointed out is that there's plenty of space in Coton Hill. The things that use it already don't need all 4 roads.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Plan is to stable up to 5 197s there when they are in service. This will eliminate the ECS from Chester and Crewe in the long run.

The Down Goods Loop (Bache) is shown in the SA as 358m.
So that's about 15x23m vehicles.
The track is currently pretty rusty!

There's also plenty of space in Birkenhead beyond Rock Ferry station, track in situ, fully signalled.
The only problem is the decades-worth of birch tree growth in the 4-foot.

 

[krus_aragon]

The HVAC air con is problematic as there's a vent on the PBC hand, this blows a powerful blast of air on your hand all day. Its not very comfortable and having a closing vent will resolve that thank goodness.

I suppose it stops sweaty hands slipping on the controller... :/

 

[Dai Corner]

I suppose it stops sweaty hands slipping on the controller... :/

And cold hands in the winter?

 

[craigybagel]

Apparently abbey foregate is getting 2 more roads reinstated, as tfw and wmt will have more units and require more space.

At the risk of getting off topic, there's talk of a 67 being kept at Shrewsbury to act as a Thunderbird as well which would also need more space than is available at present.

In any case, one of the benefits of a massive fleet of similar units is the more efficient stabling that can take place. Instead of needing to send rakes of empty Sprinters from Crewe in the morning, with 175s going the other direction (because of Chester being set up for 175 maintenance and Crewe for Sprinters) it'll be a lot easier to keep units where they actually need to be for the next day, reducing empty milage. This will probably see stabling points re-evaluated across the entire TfW network. We're already seeing that with the discussion upthread about Llandudno Junction, with plans for units being stabled there every night (whereas at present there are two separate ECS runs down the coast every morning, with 175s from Chester and Sprinters from Crewe).

Yet more reasons why a massive order for 197s was the right choice, instead of going for a smaller fleet just for expansion on top of holding on to the older units.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

No, what's been pointed out is that there's plenty of space in Coton Hill. The things that use it already don't need all 4 roads.

Just seems odd really.

You're right it isnt an option but no-ones mentioned using Abbey Foregate, Coton Hill and Abbey Foregate are different places at opposite ends of the station.

I am aware yes.

Abbey forgate is not cotton Hill, they are different sidings. As said by other posters it can be used by other operators if required, so tfw could potentially use the sidings for 197 storage.

What are the alternative locations for unit storage once the majority of non ects units have been delivered ???

Just seems off to store units in Coton Hil but guess if there is space I mean why not.

 

[LOL The Irony]

And cold hands in the winter?

HVAC - HEATING, Ventilation and Air Conditioning.

 

[Dai Corner]

HVAC - HEATING, Ventilation and Air Conditioning.

Yes. I meant that it would avoid cold hands in the winter (if working correctly).

 

[Doveymain158]

Coton Hill i think would be a no go anyway if space was available. The 221 on the Euston was due to stable there between runs that had the chop. Local residents complaining about the noise. Pre covid the lunchtime arrival at Salop use to run ecs to Wolves and back. Its such a shame plenty space there.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Yes. I meant that it would avoid cold hands in the winter (if working correctly).

Ah yes, my bad.

 

[wobman]

Coton Hill i think would be a no go anyway if space was available. The 221 on the Euston was due to stable there between runs that had the chop. Local residents complaining about the noise. Pre covid the lunchtime arrival at Salop use to run ecs to Wolves and back. Its such a shame plenty space there.

The use of cotton Hill would be for storage of units not short term stabling, the short term stabling would better suited to Abbey Foregate sidings.

The 197s have euro 5/6 engines and idle on 1 engine on eco / shunt mode nothing like voyagers or locos.

 

[6Gman]

The Junction is closing rumours have been going on for donkeys years, but we're still going strong and have more guards and drivers than we've had for a long long time

My father left the Junctiion because it was thought it would close, and he wanted to secure the future for his young family.

I'm 65 this year.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Coton Hill i think would be a no go anyway if space was available. The 221 on the Euston was due to stable there between runs that had the chop. Local residents complaining about the noise. Pre covid the lunchtime arrival at Salop use to run ecs to Wolves and back. Its such a shame plenty space there.

I've heard about people complaining about the local residents near coton hill and how they don't like the noise of the trains.