CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Bletchleyite]

It's subjective, and overall first class on LNR offers recline, better legroom, larger pull down tables, window blinds and more privacy, and on a 350/2 the benefits are all the greater.

No, it doesn't, other than the crammed in airline rows in the centre section of some coaches. Better legroom is found in the Standard end sections and the Standard tables, particularly the one found by each cab which is/was First Class on EMR's units. This part isn't subjective, this is fact; get a tape measure out if you don't believe me.

 

[43096]

I feel as though you've added this bit on purpose because you know the way you make out it's a fact they're inferior annoys me; I've said time and time again that just because you happen to like Grammar seats, and therefore would rather sit in those than the Compin ones provided in first class, does not make them inferior to everyone.

It's subjective, and overall first class on LNR offers recline, better legroom, larger pull down tables, window blinds and more privacy, and on a 350/2 the benefits are all the greater.

I agree, it is subjective. But then you have views that you present as fact, too...

 

[superalbs]

At least it's 2+1. The real sham 1st is found on LNR's 2+2 seated units where it's inferior to Standard. It's not like London-Norwich is a particularly long journey.

As for these units I'd probably expect if they've gone with Sophias for Standard they'll also have gone with Fainsa for 1st for economies of scale, so you'll likely see the same seat as in 1st on the 80x, I forget what it's called.

Fainsa MD (the MD standing for Media Distancia/Medium Distance).

I feel as though you've added this bit on purpose because you know the way you make out it's a fact they're inferior annoys me; I've said time and time again that just because you happen to like Grammar seats, and therefore would rather sit in those than the Compin ones provided in first class, does not make them inferior to everyone.

It's subjective, and overall first class on LNR offers recline, better legroom, larger pull down tables, window blinds and more privacy, and on a 350/2 the benefits are all the greater.

I have to agree though, if they used the variant with better padding then it'd be different, but the 350 first class is very naff.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Fainsa MD (the MD standing for Media Distancia/Medium Distance).


I have to agree though, if they used the variant with better padding then it'd be different, but the 350 first class is very naff.

Subjective though. For example, I know that on a couple of your travel videos on GWR's IET and Castle, you massively condemn the IET's on-board atmosphere and praise/promote the Castle's one, which is fair enough as that's your opinion. I myself think the IET is a comfortable, decent product, and that HSTs (those with Mallard seats excluded) are utter crap. It's all very subjective unless direct measurements or something like that can prove something is inferior.

 

[superalbs]

Subjective though. For example, I know that on a couple of your travel videos on GWR's IET and Castle, you massively condemn the IET's on-board atmosphere and praise/promote the Castle's one, which is fair enough as that's your opinion. I myself think the IET is a comfortable, decent product, and that HSTs (those with Mallard seats excluded) are utter crap. It's all very subjective unless direct measurements or something like that can prove something is inferior.

Of course.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I agree, it is subjective. But then you have views that you present as fact, too...

If you show me which (probably best in a DM so we don't go too much off thread) then I'll edit them accordingly. I've recently claimed IETs are better than Castle HSTs, but because improvements on carriage length, electric running capability, reservation notices, legroom, seatback table size, acceleration, crashworthiness, portion working flexibility and provision of a separate, faster Wi-Fi system are facts and not subjective.

That's the end of my discussion about seat subjectivity on this thread, before I get a (deserved) ticking off! As far as 197s go, does anyone know what the kitchen is actually for? I didn't know of any plans to have any more than a trolley on them.

 

[anamyd]

Does anyone know what's been happening with 197s on the Cambrian in the last 6 months since 197003 went to Aberystwyth in late May 2022?

 

[EngFocus]

If you show me which (probably best in a DM so we don't go too much off thread) then I'll edit them accordingly. I've recently claimed IETs are better than Castle HSTs, but because improvements on carriage length, electric running capability, reservation notices, legroom, seatback table size, acceleration, crashworthiness, portion working flexibility and provision of a separate, faster Wi-Fi system are facts and not subjective.

That's the end of my discussion about seat subjectivity on this thread, before I get a (deserved) ticking off! As far as 197s go, does anyone know what the kitchen is actually for? I didn't know of any plans to have any more than a trolley on them.

Trolley service continues, but on which services hasn't been decided or TfW wouldn't say. there's a 80L water tank and space for the trolley.

During the launch in Chester I'm sure I overheard someone say there's talk of an at seat ordering service like Avanti has.

 

[Dspatula]

003 and 102 on 3H95 to Manchester Airport at Manchester Oxford Road.
First time I've seen any here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have people been asked to stick those coach letters on in totally random places? The ones on the unit I had were under the orange light. It really spoils the livery.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Do we know what first class will look like yet?

I'd love to know! I just hope that TfW haven't been stupid and used the same seats in First as in Standard like GA did on their 745s.

There were some renders in the (fairly) early days which gave an idea of what it would look like, but that was when the standard class seats were still the 'ironing boards'.

As for these units I'd probably expect if they've gone with Sophias for Standard they'll also have gone with Fainsa for 1st for economies of scale, so you'll likely see the same seat as in 1st on the 80x, I forget what it's called.

They didn't go with Sophias for standard - they went for the ironing boards - but those are from Fainsa too so your logic still applies. They were forced to change the standard class seats due to the bad press but the original specification for first class presumably stands unless those were ironing boards too (they looked like a different seat in the renders to the ironing boards in standard though).

Trolley service continues, but on which services hasn't been decided or TfW wouldn't say. there's a 80L water tank and space for the trolley.

My mother was told that the trolley on our 158 home last night had run out of water for her hot drink but that the trolley would be back shortly with more, and it was. I've never notice space for a water tank for refilling the trolley on a 158, but the refill must have come from somewhere...

 

[sw1ller]

There were some renders in the (fairly) early days which gave an idea of what it would look like, but that was when the standard class seats were still the 'ironing boards'.

They didn't go with Sophias for standard - they went for the ironing boards - but those are from Fainsa too so your logic still applies. They were forced to change the standard class seats due to the bad press but the original specification for first class presumably stands unless those were ironing boards too (they looked like a different seat in the renders to the ironing boards in standard though).

My mother was told that the trolley on our 158 home last night had run out of water for her hot drink but that the trolley would be back shortly with more, and it was. I've never notice space for a water tank for refilling the trolley on a 158, but the refill must have come from somewhere...

It’s possible the guard had bottles of water in the back cab. Let’s hope this was the case because there’s only one other place to get water from on a 158…..

 

[6Gtraincrew]

It’s possible the guard had bottles of water in the back cab. Let’s hope this was the case because there’s only one other place to get water from on a 158…..

Bottles of cold water wouldn't be much use to make a hot drink and neither would cold water from the toilet (which I assume you're suggesting). More likely that they may have been near to one of the catering depots and they did a restock. Or they had extra flasks of water with them but had left them in another part of the train.

 

[L401CJF]

Its quite common for catering staff to fill up their hot water in messrooms at some locations (eg Llandudno Junction) or arrange to meet other staff catering staff at catering locations such as Chester to restock with fresh flasks.

 

[fgwrich]

Have people been asked to stick those coach letters on in totally random places? The ones on the unit I had were under the orange light. It really spoils the livery.

Not only that, but the Seat number stickers look very cheap too. Compared to the smart 'flags' used on SWR, these certainly look like a cheap afterthought.

 

[sw1ller]

Bottles of cold water wouldn't be much use to make a hot drink and neither would cold water from the toilet (which I assume you're suggesting). More likely that they may have been near to one of the catering depots and they did a restock. Or they had extra flasks of water with them but had left them in another part of the train.

Shows what I know about catering. I thought they something to heat the water! Makes more sense they’re just flasks though.

 

[anamyd]

Does anyone know what's been happening with 197s on the Cambrian in the last 6 months since 197003 went to Aberystwyth in late May 2022?

Also, how many of the 77 197s exist (have been built) so far?

 

[Armchair Bob]

Also, how many of the 77 197s exist (have been built) so far?

I reckon about half, or just over. This is from unit numbers that l have noted down plus un-numbered sets reportedly at Donnington and obviously a couple just out of the factory at Newport.

 

[Jez]

Any news yet on when we will see more 197s in service? Are any expected tomorrow as part of the timetable change aside from the Llandudno-Blaenau ?

 

[L401CJF]

Any news yet on when we will see more 197s in service? Are any expected tomorrow as part of the timetable change aside from the Llandudno-Blaenau ?

There was talk of them running a few Llandudno to Manchester diagrams from tomorrow but I don't know if it was finalised. I know they were working on risk assessments for the route last week (hence the previous photo of one in Manchester !) but not sure if it's ready to begin this week.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

There was talk of them running a few Llandudno to Manchester diagrams from tomorrow but I don't know if it was finalised. I know they were working on risk assessments for the route last week (hence the previous photo of one in Manchester !) but not sure if it's ready to begin this week.

Yeah I just noticed one of the diagrams was booked 197 now so whether it's ready to go yet or not I don't know. I have heard maybe Chester to Liverpool tomorrow though!

 

[1Z99]

197011 working the Chester-Liverpool service today.

 

[Jez]

197011 working the Chester-Liverpool service today.

That's great news!

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197011 working the Chester-Liverpool service today.

Brilliant to see more 197s out on different routes now.

 

[L401CJF]

Latest update regarding 197s on LLD-MIA is that they should start to roll out next week if all goes to plan.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Latest update regarding 197s on LLD-MIA is that they should start to roll out next week if all goes to plan.

Double 2s or single 3s? (please don't say single 2s as that's a significant seating reduction)

 

[JonathanH]

197010 on the Blaenau Ffestiniog line as well, although I recognise they have been in use on that line for a few weeks.

 

[L401CJF]

Double 2s or single 3s? (please don't say single 2s as that's a significant seating reduction)

The last I was told was like for like replacement for the time being. Once enough are in service they can be strengthened to work in multiple.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The last I was told was like for like replacement for the time being. Once enough are in service they can be strengthened to work in multiple.

I suppose at least they're better for cramming in standees than 175s, but this to me seems the wrong choice on the run up to Christmas - fewer services as 197 but with more capacity seems sensible. A single 2-car only has 30 more seats than an original layout 153 - sure, there's more legroom and better wheelchair provision, but that just means 2-car units aren't going to be suitable for lone use other than the Conwy Valley, Llandudno shuttle and winter Pwllhelis - and DEFINITELY not any Manchester-Llandudnos bar late evening.

 

[EngFocus]

Doesn't look like a 197 will entering service on the Wrexham-Bidston line then. I know we've had no service for 2 days, but there haven't been any 197 runs on Wrexham-Bidston for weeks.