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CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

Caaardiff

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Very disappointing to see that the 9.22 Cardiff to Holyhead today is a 2 coach 150. Is that the best they can manage? They also have the 2 coach Northern 150 heading from Cardiff to Manchester this morning. Perhaps they are returning it to Northern?

That service has been booked a 158 for as long as I can remember. It's usually covered by a 150/175/0 if the 158 isn't available. This would be better off as a 3 car 197.

If the Northern 150 is heading to Manchester in service, it's unlikely going back to Northern as it will need to complete the full day. Apparently the Northern 150's are staying until Autumn.
 
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Topological

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That service has been booked a 158 for as long as I can remember. It's usually covered by a 150/175/0 if the 158 isn't available. This would be better off as a 3 car 197.

If the Northern 150 is heading to Manchester in service, it's unlikely going back to Northern as it will need to complete the full day. Apparently the Northern 150's are staying until Autumn.
Sadly Northern 150 to Manchester just means an extra uncomfortable journey. There is no ability to switch it to a TfW 150 apparently (something which to an outsider who knows how many 150s TfW have seems bizarre)
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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There is no ability to switch it to a TfW 150 apparently (something which to an outsider who knows how many 150s TfW have seems bizarre)
Because they’re in a common fleet of 150s. Therefore one 150 is the same as another on paper.
 

Topological

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Because they’re in a common fleet of 150s. Therefore one 150 is the same as another on paper.
As I say, totally bizarre given that the actual units are not the same and most of us can manage whatever we are allocating to ensure a better fit than sending the Northern ones on the Marches.

Slowly but surely the 197s are coming, but one would hope in the meantime TfW could find a way of looking at what the computer says for the allocation and then saying "erm... no... " and swapping around a little.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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As I say, totally bizarre given that the actual units are not the same and most of us can manage whatever we are allocating to ensure a better fit than sending the Northern ones on the Marches.

Slowly but surely the 197s are coming, but one would hope in the meantime TfW could find a way of looking at what the computer says for the allocation and then saying "erm... no... " and swapping around a little.
Well no… because you have a fleet of 150s, and it allocated one of them randomly. Introducing some sort of manual interference just because two have a different interior, potentially less desirable to some, when no seat reservations apply, is going to be unnecessarily awkward.
 

sd0733

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That service has been booked a 158 for as long as I can remember. It's usually covered by a 150/175/0 if the 158 isn't available. This would be better off as a 3 car 197.
1W92 also shows as a 197 from tomorrow. The 2 diagrams that did W91 today are 2 separate 2 cars tomorrow one on each of 1W91 and 1W92. In all honesty the 15x is better capacity wise than a single 2 car 197.
 

Krokodil

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Well no… because you have a fleet of 150s, and it allocated one of them randomly. Introducing some sort of manual interference just because two have a different interior, potentially less desirable to some, when no seat reservations apply, is going to be unnecessarily awkward.

Particularly if control is short-staffed.

The only restriction on the Northern 150s is that they have no intermediate door controls and so cannot call at a short platform.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Particularly if control is short-staffed.

The only restriction on the Northern 150s is that they have no intermediate door controls and so cannot call at a short platform.
I think I saw that one of them was coupled to two other standard 150s on a late night service from Shrewsbury to Cardiff Ctrl the other day, so I don't know if that'd have had any issues. Similarly though on the Valleys, I saw one doing Bargoeds in lieu of a 231 the other day, and so I suppose that'd have been unable to call at Gilfach Fargoed.
 

Krokodil

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I think I saw that one of them was coupled to two other standard 150s on a late night service from Shrewsbury to Cardiff Ctrl the other day, so I don't know if that'd have had any issues.
Deadlocking entire coaches is an option for that.
 

Jacob Porrett

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Envoy

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Good to see that 3 car 197111 is operating today 1W92 = the popular 9.22 service from Cardiff to Holyhead. Disappointing use of platforms at Newport for this service.
 
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craigybagel

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Not a lot of use if you've got wheelchairs or bikes.
Fair point. But ~99% of the time it'll work, and you have the fall back of manually locking out coaches for the rest. Or have they specifically banned the Northern sets from those stations? I've only driven one once so don't have much experience.

Good to see that 2 car 197111 is operating today 1W92 = the popular 9.22 service from Cardiff to Holyhead. Disappointing use of platforms at Newport for this service.
In my experience, most people prefer boarding trains from platforms rather than climbing up or down from the cess, but each to their own.
 

sd0733

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Fair point. But ~99% of the time it'll work, and you have the fall back of manually locking out coaches for the rest. Or have they specifically banned the Northern sets from those stations? I've only driven one once so don't have much experience.
They're banned from anything stopping across Angelsey now but couldn't say if there are other restrictions too.
 

185

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So, this 197 just announced a pile of stations in Welsh including Dwyrain Didsbury, Mancenion Peekadeely, Runcorn Dwyrain, Caer, Yr Ffffflint. etc. Then around Heald Green the English one came on, and didn't announce any stops beyond Helsby :lol: ...at stations their on arrival announcement in English was 2 minutes after departing.

I welcome bilingual PA announcements, make no mistake. But not these, they're diabolical. Can't blame CAF for these, this is solely Transport for Cardiff.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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So, this 197 just announced a pile of stations in Welsh including Dwyrain Didsbury, Mancenion Peekadeely, Runcorn Dwyrain, Caer, Yr Ffffflint. etc. Then around Heald Green the English one came on, and didn't announce any stops beyond Helsby :lol: ...at stations their on arrival announcement in English was 2 minutes after departing.

I welcome bilingual PA announcements, make no mistake. But not these, they're diabolical. Can't blame CAF for these, this is solely Transport for Cardiff.
This is exactly it. It’s awkward enough for Welsh to come first in Wales, where anyone who speaks Welsh speaks English (but is far from the other way round), but it’s politics and won’t be reversed, infuriatingly. But in England it’s ridiculous.
 

sd0733

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So, this 197 just announced a pile of stations in Welsh including Dwyrain Didsbury, Mancenion Peekadeely, Runcorn Dwyrain, Caer, Yr Ffffflint. etc. Then around Heald Green the English one came on, and didn't announce any stops beyond Helsby :lol: ...at stations their on arrival announcement in English was 2 minutes after departing.

I welcome bilingual PA announcements, make no mistake. But not these, they're diabolical. Can't blame CAF for these, this is solely Transport for Cardiff.
The announcements are a known issue which has been reported by loads of front line staff as too long and clunky and on routes where there's frequent stops the previous one literally gets cut out by the next.
Hopefully they're at least trimmed soon
 

DenmarkRail

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This is exactly it. It’s awkward enough for Welsh to come first in Wales, where anyone who speaks Welsh speaks English (but is far from the other way round), but it’s politics and won’t be reversed, infuriatingly. But in England it’s ridiculous.

Certainly isn't always the case that people who speak Welsh also speak English, particularly outside of the Cardiff (and wider South Wales) bubble. That principle applies to other nations, so I don't see why Wales is any different. EG you could also argue that *most* people in Denmark speak English (about 80%) yet nobody would suggest putting English announcements first. It isn't politics, it's the language. In terms of it being ridiculous putting Welsh first in England, the logic I apply is fairly simple. If you got on an Emirates flight from London to Dubai, you'd expect them to speak Arabic first, because they are an Arab airline... Getting on a TfW 197 from Shrewsbury to Cardiff is no different. It is Transport for WALES after all.

But yes I do agree that the announcements being disjointed and clunky is a problem. Needs looking at, but if anything that should involve enhancing Welsh language rather than cutting it back.

Personally I'm all for reduced announcements all round, was on a CrossCountry train the other day leaving BHM towards CDF and the departure announcement lasted pretty much the entire way to UNI, although that was manual rather than automatic like the 197s. I don't really see why we need anything more than 'the next station is...' to be honest, but I'm sure other circumstances will spring to mind once I have posted this.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Getting on a TfW 197 from Shrewsbury to Cardiff is no different. It is Transport for WALES after all.
The "franchise/concession" is Wales & Borders (it says so on the trains).
It is not a Welsh-only operation, even if it gives that impression.

The 197s are of course based at Chester in England.
 

emoaconr

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This is exactly it. It’s awkward enough for Welsh to come first in Wales, where anyone who speaks Welsh speaks English (but is far from the other way round), but it’s politics and won’t be reversed, infuriatingly. But in England it’s ridiculous.
Good, it should never be reversed. Politics or not, the erosion of Welsh language and culture threatens the very existence of what makes Wales different to anywhere else. The insecurities of a small minority of Telegraph-reading English folk are of minimal concern.
 

43096

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Good, it should never be reversed. Politics or not, the erosion of Welsh language and culture threatens the very existence of what makes Wales different to anywhere else. The insecurities of a small minority of Telegraph-reading English folk are of minimal concern.
It should be what benefits the majority first. It’s meant to be a transport service, not a way of preserving a language.
 

33017

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Certainly isn't always the case that people who speak Welsh also speak English, particularly outside of the Cardiff (and wider South Wales) bubble. That principle applies to other nations, so I don't see why Wales is any different. EG you could also argue that *most* people in Denmark speak English (about 80%) yet nobody would suggest putting English announcements first. It isn't politics, it's the language. In terms of it being ridiculous putting Welsh first in England, the logic I apply is fairly simple. If you got on an Emirates flight from London to Dubai, you'd expect them to speak Arabic first, because they are an Arab airline... Getting on a TfW 197 from Shrewsbury to Cardiff is no different. It is Transport for WALES after all.

But yes I do agree that the announcements being disjointed and clunky is a problem. Needs looking at, but if anything that should involve enhancing Welsh language rather than cutting it back.

Personally I'm all for reduced announcements all round, was on a CrossCountry train the other day leaving BHM towards CDF and the departure announcement lasted pretty much the entire way to UNI, although that was manual rather than automatic like the 197s. I don't really see why we need anything more than 'the next station is...' to be honest, but I'm sure other circumstances will spring to mind once I have posted this.
I’m sorry but that’s nonsense. There’s no Welsh speaker over the age of 6/7 in Wales that doesn’t speak English. Everyone gets taught it at primary school. I say this as the minority English-only speaker in my house.

There might be a few 80+ who are a bit rusty but the idea there are loads of Welsh who speak no English is fantasy.
 
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samrammstein

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Had 197110 on the Chester - Lime Street shuttle yesterday. Very warm inside, seemed like air con had failed. Anybody else had this happen on other 197s?
 

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