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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

TT-ONR-NRN

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In reality it seems highly likely that the characteristics of 197s did play a part too. Crew unfamiliarity mixed with a light, high powered unit on really poor rail conditions was the worst combination for autumn.
Today we saw, again, the doors open just to be immediately closed on the boarding crowds at Cardiff Central (late 2:45pm to Manchester) Surely you’d think the guards would know by now to keep their finger pressed down on the button! I’m scared someone’s going to get injured by this, because when the doors close in these particular circumstances, the object detection doesn’t seem to do anything.
 
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SuperLuke2334

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Is there not a lathe at Canton?

The wheels of the 197’s look a fair bit smaller than those on the sprinters. Surely, having to apply a lot of power to release the brakes on smaller wheels is more likely to cause wheel spin/damage?
Canton's is currently out of use.
 

Lurcheroo

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I believe it’s in use but not capable of turning 197s.
That is what is said in the internal note .

Today we saw, again, the doors open just to be immediately closed on the boarding crowds at Cardiff Central (late 2:45pm to Manchester) Surely you’d think the guards would know by now to keep their finger pressed down on the button! I’m scared someone’s going to get injured by this, because when the doors close in these particular circumstances, the object detection doesn’t seem to do anything.
turning the ASDO override switch is only required when ASDO isn’t working or at complex stations where it is not possible for ASDO to know exactly which platform the train is on and how long it is so which doors could be released.
The conductors could do 50 door release procedures a day, I’ve certainly done over 70 in a day before.

On the railway we spend a fair amount of time discussing ‘human factors’. In short, this means, we’re all human and can make mistakes, and we try to understand why and prevent them.

The act of holding the switch for only 4.5 seconds instead of a full 5 seconds before pressing the door release button could easily be done if you count just ever so slightly too fast.

Prior to the railway, I worked in manufacturing engineering and we used to use ‘Root cause and Counter measure’ to help us resolve issues.
I obviously don’t understand the system in it’s true depth (I’m by no means a CAF engineer) but ultimately, fixing the issue with the system (the train) is a better fix than hoping that conductors never get it slightly wrong.

I do agree, if it’s as violent as you say, it certainly seems a safety concern that needs to be addressed, properly!
 

simonmpoulton

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Perhaps it's time that TFW swallow some of there pride and get some 175's back into service off Angel Trains (assuming there are some serviceable units) given the current issues! Definitely this seems like they have rushed these 197's out and withdrawn the older units without a proper amount of testing in these current conditions! Although by this point with the number of units CAF have built based on the same platform I would've expected these issues to have already been addressed by now!
 

185143

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Perhaps it's time that TFW swallow some of there pride and get some 175's back into service off Angel Trains (assuming there are some serviceable units) given the current issues! Definitely this seems like they have rushed these 197's out and withdrawn the older units without a proper amount of testing in these current conditions! Although by this point with the number of units CAF have built based on the same platform I would've expected these issues to have already been addressed by now!
I counted at least six 175/1s dumped at Holyhead as I boarded a ferry this morning.

So, assuming they're not there due to faults/fire damage ect, that's six units which are currently on the network.
 

Caaardiff

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I counted at least six 175/1s dumped at Holyhead as I boarded a ferry this morning.

So, assuming they're not there due to faults/fire damage ect, that's six units which are currently on the network.
If you class on the network as in service, then that's not correct. No 175s are working in passenger service anymore.
Some are moving around the country for maintenance or storage at various places until they get handed back to the lease company.
There is a separate thread discussing it all.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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If you class on the network as in service, then that's not correct. No 175s are working in passenger service anymore.
Some are moving around the country for maintenance or storage at various places until they get handed back to the lease company.
There is a separate thread discussing it all.
Which is here: :)
 

Rhydgaled

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Heard rumours about what the Ferryside issue is. Apparently something to do with platform height. No word on when it'll be fixed though, so looks like it'll be old stock on West Wales-Cardiff Central/Swansea services for the forseeable.
Not sure if there are platform humps there now, but I seem to remember during ATW days that at least one of the platforms at Ferryside was quite low and there was a set of portable wooden steps in the waiting shelter(s) to help passengers climb up/down to/from the train.

This may sound like a daft question but aren’t 197s and 196s basically the same train? Surely WMT experienced the same issues and things should have been ironed out by now?!
There are some differences; for example don't the 196s have smaller windows (but more of them) than the 197s?

It's provisional slots on the lathe at Crewe ETD. Swapping wheelsets/bogies and sending them elsewhere was considered but would have turned out slower. Its in the same internal piece as the dates!
Is the lathe at Crewe ETD for the exclusive use of TfW (in which case I assume the slots are when it is available for 197s and at other times other TfW units such as 158s and 150s are using it)? Or is it also shared by other TOCs, in which case why don't TfW have their own lathe(s) (perhaps at Chester and/or Landore)?
 

craigybagel

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Is the lathe at Crewe ETD for the exclusive use of TfW (in which case I assume the slots are when it is available for 197s and at other times other TfW units such as 158s and 150s are using it)? Or is it also shared by other TOCs, in which case why don't TfW have their own lathe(s) (perhaps at Chester and/or Landore)?
The depot is run by DBC and all kinds of companies use the lathe. I'm not sure there's any space to install one at other depots, and I doubt they come cheap either.

In any case, I don't think lathe capacity is the issue here, as I've never known the ETD to be particularly busy. I suspect there are other logistical issues at play.
 

BenBracken

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Are 197s slowly coming back into service now? I keep checking RTT, west Wales services seem to be back to normal and the carnage from last week looks to be over?
 

sd0733

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Are 197s slowly coming back into service now? I keep checking RTT, west Wales services seem to be back to normal and the carnage from last week looks to be over?
There's a list of the OOU units in post #5327 so still a few missing.
Today looks to have 5 diagrams short formed and 1 running as a pair of 153s.
The release of all the training units helped fill the gap.
 

sd0733

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Have anymore been accepted recently? Haven't seen any posts about new introductions.
Not for a while believe its still at a pause due to techs trying to keep the operational fleet in service.

There was a 3 car on mileage accumulation out of Crewe earlier though.
 

Sheridan

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This may sound like a daft question but aren’t 197s and 196s basically the same train? Surely WMT experienced the same issues and things should have been ironed out by now?!

Not sure if it would make any difference to the current issues (I can’t really see how it would) but the 196s were fully built at CAF in Spain, while the 197s were assembled in Newport, as far as I know.
 

Peter Sarf

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Interesting.
Any numbers?
If not how many 2/3 cars?
I’m presuming the only 2 cars will be Cambrian ones as the others are all out. Looks like there are several.
I can count one 3car and five 2car for definite. Plus in the distance what look like two 5car units - so I will guess at two more 2car and two more 3car.
Making three 3car and seven 2car.
An educated guess.
 

AJDesiro

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Not sure if it would make any difference to the current issues (I can’t really see how it would) but the 196s were fully built at CAF in Spain, while the 197s were assembled in Newport, as far as I know.
Quite a large proportion of the 196s were assembled at Newport, but some were also built in spain. With such a standardised platform, one would hope it doesn't make a difference, especially when they're only really bolted together at Newport.
 

The_Train

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It's been there for a long while. Not sure what it's status and plans are for it though as it stands
It has been out on mainline testing - commenced early September but not sure how often it has been out
 

sd0733

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Not sure when some of these proving runs ran but next week is planned to see introductions of:
-197 operation Carmarthen to Milford Haven/Fishguard (3 car max)
-6 car clearance between Swansea and Holyhead (not yet Shrewsbury-Manchester though and 4 car if calling at any Swanline stations
-Ferryside issue resolved

Unit acceptance also seems to have restarted.

With the introduction of the 5+2 Mk4s as well next week it should be a big jump especially on the Marches (units permitting).

Next stages are for the VOG, Swansea District and Maesteg to be done before Treherbert reopens to allow all the 150s to leave the mainline to cover the Valleys.
 

Western 52

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Lots of positive news there! Nice to see the back of the 150s on the mainline, but we'll still have them on the Pembroke line for a while.
 

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