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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

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Sheridan

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WirralLine said:
Some catering depots use the new 197 trolleys (the black ones) but there's still Arriva teal trolleys knocking around too.

Speaking to the hosts they find it easier leaving the trolley somewhere with more space as the 197 aisles are quite narrow - particularly if you've got people sitting side by side with their elbows in the aisle. They often walk through offering refreshments then go to the trolley to get the order.
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I prefer to sit in the section near the cabs (front or rear - no real preference although I do like standard plus!) and the catering staff will generally just pop their head down from the door area and ask if anyone wants anything for these small sections, which makes complete sense. They’ve usually walked through the rest of the train from what I can ascertain though.
 
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RailUK Forums

Envoy

Envoy

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The seats in the ‘Standard Plus’ are the best new train seats I have sat in. I would not like to do a long journey in the hard over upright seats in the FLIRTS.
 
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Jez

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Envoy said:
The seats in the ‘Standard Plus’ are the best new train seats I have sat in. I would not like to do a long journey in the hard over upright seats in the FLIRTS.
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I agree. I also find the seats in 'Standard' good as well. Certainly the best out of any other new trains in recent years. I know many people disagree but just my opinion.
 
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simonmpoulton

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There’s also a 158 doing Chester to Lime Street. I’m beginning to wonder if these 197s are ever going to work properly!
 
Envoy

Envoy

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simonmpoulton said:
There’s also a 158 doing Chester to Lime Street. I’m beginning to wonder if these 197s are ever going to work properly!
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Perhaps the lone depot for maintaining them simply cannot cope - especially as the numbers have now increased? If that is the case, then surely they need to have another maintenance facility in the south? Are West Midlands Railway having the same problems with the 196’s?

Of course, the other issue is that 197’s are being used on services which by now should be FLIRT trains such as Ebbw Vale to Maesteg plus the Cheltenhams.
 
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Dai Corner

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Envoy said:
Are West Midlands Railway having the same problems with the 196’s?
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According to figures given by Roger Ford in February Modern Railways, the 196s are about 30% more reliable than the 197s, Northern's 195/1s are about 8% more reliable and their 195/0s about twice as reliable.
 
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Russel

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Dai Corner said:
According to figures given by Roger Ford in February Modern Railways, the 196s are about 30% more reliable than the 197s and Northern's 195s are around twice as reliable.
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Is there any major differences in construction/engine type/drive etc between the three types that results in such a varied figure, or is it just down to maintenance and workload?
 
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Dai Corner

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Russel said:
Is there any major differences in construction/engine type/drive etc between the three types that results in such a varied figure, or is it just down to maintenance and workload?
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The later 195s, the 196s and 197s were assembled in Newport rather than CAFs existing plants, presumably by a rather less experienced workforce.

(Note that I've edited my previous post)
 
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Jez

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JakeMurphy said:
And on the rush hour diagram out of Manchester..
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And already 14 minutes late by Church Stretton. A pair of 153s have no chance of keeping up with 197 timings.

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Envoy said:
Perhaps the lone depot for maintaining them simply cannot cope - especially as the numbers have now increased? If that is the case, then surely they need to have another maintenance facility in the south? Are West Midlands Railway having the same problems with the 196’s?

Of course, the other issue is that 197’s are being used on services which by now should be FLIRT trains such as Ebbw Vale to Maesteg plus the Cheltenhams.
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I agree. I cant understand why some of them didnt get allocated to Canton. I know Canton have the 150s and 153s still plus the FLIRTS but surely Chester cant maintain all of them aside from the Cambrian sets.

Yes 197s covering routes meant for FLIRTS still but at the moment they are on paper 197 diagrams so they should be able to cover them from a fleet of 60 trains in service and 46 diagrams.
 
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Topological

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JakeMurphy said:
And on the rush hour diagram out of Manchester..
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I saw a 2+3 leaving Cardiff today on the 15:50, just after a Mk4 had arrived on what would have been the 12:30 ex-Manchester and thought all was going well.

It is hard to believe that there was no 197 could have gone to Manchester while the 153s stayed closer to Cardiff.

Were any 197s having to cover for Mk4s poor reliability today? Up to the end of last week there had been 17 working days and on only one day did all 5 mk 4 diagrams run completely with Mk4s (and then the full diagrams did not run due to factors outside TfW control). That is despite TfW having 7 sets. I haven't checked for yesterday and today.
 
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sd0733

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Jez said:
Yes 197s covering routes meant for FLIRTS still but at the moment they are on paper 197 diagrams so they should be able to cover them from a fleet of 60 trains in service and 46 diagrams.
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There's also the ERTMS units now which cover a few of those units on the 230/231 routes. There's still the 1 'Mainline' unit not accepted but 5 additional units from the ERTMS pool so isn't as much difference as it once was.

Only 43 were in service today, and 2 of those never got past Chester on their first trip with 3 150s, a pair of 153s and a 158 covering plus quite a lot of shortforms. 70ish% availability is well below what's needed.
 
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Jez

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sd0733 said:
There's also the ERTMS units now which cover a few of those units on the 230/231 routes. There's still the 1 'Mainline' unit not accepted but 5 additional units from the ERTMS pool so isn't as much difference as it once was.

Only 43 were in service today, and 2 of those never got past Chester on their first trip with 3 150s, a pair of 153s and a 158 covering plus quite a lot of shortforms. 70ish% availability is well below what's needed. Looking at the WMT thread it seems the 196s are seemingly equally as unreliable with lots of substituting there too.
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Indeed. It looks like the 150s were on Maesteg, Cheltenham and 1 of the Pembroke Dock/Swanline diagrams.

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Topological said:
I saw a 2+3 leaving Cardiff today on the 15:50, just after a Mk4 had arrived on what would have been the 12:30 ex-Manchester and thought all was going well.

It is hard to believe that there was no 197 could have gone to Manchester while the 153s stayed closer to Cardiff.

Were any 197s having to cover for Mk4s poor reliability today? Up to the end of last week there had been 17 working days and on only one day did all 5 mk 4 diagrams run completely with Mk4s (and then the full diagrams did not run due to factors outside TfW control). That is despite TfW having 7 sets. I haven't checked for yesterday and today.
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And today some West Wales services have been curtailed at Carmarthen as well. It looks like the pair of 153s did a Cardiff-Carmarthen, then a Carmarthen to Manchester and return to Swansea and then back to Cardiff. I assume there were no 197s available to swap it at Cardiff for the Manchester part of the journey.

Fortunately MK4 seems better this week, just as well as the 197s cant really afford to cover them with such dire availability for their own diagrams.
 
87electric

87electric

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sd0733 said:
I make it 13- 022/023/025/026/027/032/036/037/038/039/040/041/126.

Another entered service today with 197028 now out which is the 61st in service.
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So 197024/029/035 are accepted by TfW, but haven’t entered service yet?
 
Jacob Porrett

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At Crewe depot at the moment as of today (29/1/25) we have 197022, 197027, 197126 and 197036 however that's on test and currently not on the depot.

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Another new 197 will be delivered in February.
 
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