CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[LNW-GW Joint]

Anyone know which diagrams 197s will be working this week? Would like to experience one on the North Wales coast to see how they ride on decent CWR, as the ride on the Conwy Valley wasn't great.

If you look at Llandudno Jn, the following appear to be 197 workings: 0754, 1053, 1253, 1653, 1853 to Chester/Manchester Airport
From Chester westbound (to LLD or LLJ): 0855, 1152, 1451, 1651

These trains run Chester-Manchester Airport via Warrington BQ, including late 1925/2125 Manchester Airport-Chester.
You should also find a 197 on the Chester-Liverpool service, 0844 from Chester/0947 from Liverpool, every 2 hours.

Not guaranteed of course.
RTT will tell you the allocations on the day, if you check the details for a particular train.
Don't bother checking anything other than 2-car formations, as they won't be 197s.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Llandudno Junction all day on 20/12/2022

Train information at Llandudno Junction all day on 20/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[william.martin]

Am I misunderstanding this or are 197's in passenger service?

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Am I misunderstanding this or are 197's in passenger service?

Yes they are.

 

[Geeves]

1st of December was the big day

 

[185]

Am I misunderstanding this or are 197's in passenger service?

They're out. Went on one unexpectedly last Thursday Runcorn to Frodsham when the service fell apart.

They're okay, however did have an issue with something as basic as opening a door... Guard released the doors. Beebeebeeep. Short press... Nothing. Long press.... Nothing. Check to make sure I'm pressing open. I am. Press again. Nothing. Then, 4s later door opens on it's own ...can see quite a few emergency door egresses being pulled.

 

[william.martin]

They're out. Went on one unexpectedly last Thursday Runcorn to Frodsham when the service fell apart.

They're okay, however did have an issue with something as basic as opening a door... Guard released the doors. Beebeebeeep. Short press... Nothing. Long press.... Nothing. Check to make sure I'm pressing open. I am. Press again. Nothing. Then, 4s later door opens on it's own ...can see quite a few emergency door egresses being pulled.

1st of December was the big day

Yes they are.

I can't believe I have gone so long without knowing this ! Are they working services through Shrewsbury?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Am I misunderstanding this or are 197's in passenger service?

Keep up at the back there! Entered service on the Conway Valley line on Nov 14th, Liverpool Chester on December 12th, Manchester-Llandudno Dec 19th. As mentioned up-thread

 

[william.martin]

Keep up at the back there! Entered service on the Conway Valley line on Nov 14th, Liverpool Chester on December 12th, Manchester-Llandudno Dec 19th. As mentioned up-thread

Thanks, looks like I've got a trip up to Chester in January then!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I can't believe I have gone so long without knowing this ! Are they working services through Shrewsbury?

Shrewsbury services won't be until they're fully deployed in North Wales, I believe they plan to start them on Cardiff - Holyhead in the Spring.

 

[Bikeman78]

Traditional "c**p on the track" toilets with manual doors are much more reliable than vacuum toilets with automatic doors.

Though the Blaenau branch isn't the biggest issue, it's things like the Cambrian where you have much longer journeys with a 2-car unit and very few station toilets available for a toilet stop.

100%. The old school toilets rarely failed. They might run out of fresh water, but a gross toilet is better than none at all. Now there is the double whammy of fewer and less reliable toilets. Long distance trains need one per carriage, like the 158s and 175s do.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Now there is the double whammy of fewer and less reliable toilets.

It's also fewer toilets in absolute terms not just on a per-train basis. The TfW class 158s and 175s together comprise a total of 118 carriages - given that they have 1 toilet per carriage that's also 118 toilets across the fleet.

The 77 class 197s ordered would comprise 180 carriages, a total of 62 additional carriages compared to the ex-ATW long-distance DMUs. However, on the 77 class 197s there would be a total of just 103 toilets. So, despite adding more carriages TfW are reducing the total number of toilets in their long-distance DMUs by 15.

 

[EngFocus]

If you look at Llandudno Jn, the following appear to be 197 workings: 0754, 1053, 1253, 1653, 1853 to Chester/Manchester Airport
From Chester westbound (to LLD or LLJ): 0855, 1152, 1451, 1651

These trains run Chester-Manchester Airport via Warrington BQ, including late 1925/2125 Manchester Airport-Chester.
You should also find a 197 on the Chester-Liverpool service, 0844 from Chester/0947 from Liverpool, every 2 hours.

Not guaranteed of course.
RTT will tell you the allocations on the day, if you check the details for a particular train.
Don't bother checking anything other than 2-car formations, as they won't be 197s.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Llandudno Junction all day on 20/12/2022

Train information at Llandudno Junction all day on 20/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thank you

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's also fewer toilets in absolute terms not just on a per-train basis. The TfW class 158s and 175s together comprise a total of 118 carriages - given that they have 1 toilet per carriage that's also 118 toilets across the fleet.

The 77 class 197s ordered would comprise 180 carriages, a total of 62 additional carriages compared to the ex-ATW long-distance DMUs. However, on the 77 class 197s there would be a total of just 103 toilets. So, despite adding more carriages TfW are reducing the total number of toilets in their long-distance DMUs by 15.

This has already been stated multiple times in threads about the 197s. Yes, there are fewer toilets. It's known.

 

[childwallblues]

I can confirm that Chester to Liverpool has been 197 operated since 12 December. in the first week we had 197011 and 197010 on those days that the service ran, This week it wad 197004 yesterday and 197013 is out today.

 

[william.martin]

100%. The old school toilets rarely failed. They might run out of fresh water, but a gross toilet is better than none at all.

Had it at Pwhelli, got delayed for 5 mins while they found some water for the bog!

 

[6Gtraincrew]

First passenger run in multiple for 197006 and 013 today. Couple of Llandudno shuttles then 07:43 LLD to MIA and 10:25 MIA to LLJ etc

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

First passenger run in multiple for 197006 and 013 today. Couple of Llandudno shuttles then 07:43 LLD to MIA and 10:25 MIA to LLJ etc

TfW seem to have uncorked the bottle at last with the 197s.
I suppose the next milestone will be getting 3-car units into service.

 

[Peter Sarf]

TfW seem to have uncorked the bottle at last with the 197s.
I suppose the next milestone will be getting 3-car units into service.

Should be easier as - I suppose that the first running of 3 car units will be easier than trying out two 197s coupled together ?.

 

[The_Train]

A 3 car 197 has departed Donnington for Basford Hall not so long ago as 6Q98 - any idea on the number please?

 

[AMD]

Should be easier as - I suppose that the first running of 3 car units will be easier than trying out two 197s coupled together ?.

I think you spoke too soon - there's 197006 and 197013 out together today.

 

[craigybagel]

Should be easier as - I suppose that the first running of 3 car units will be easier than trying out two 197s coupled together ?.

I think you spoke too soon - there's 197006 and 197013 out together today.

TfW and CAF managed to resolve the issue with coupling units months ago and all the drivers who needed a day training on coupling should be sorted by now, so other than enough units being available there shouldn't be any major issues with running services coupled.

With the 3 cars the first set arrived a lot later than any of the 2 cars, so I'm not sure if any have been accepted for use in service yet.

 

[childwallblues]

No 197 for the Liverpool service today. It was 158839.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I think you spoke too soon - there's 197006 and 197013 out together today.

According to RTT looks like they split at Chester 13:47-14:02, did something go wrong or was this all planned?

Realtime Trains | 1H88 1253 Llandudno Junction to Manchester Airport | 21/12/2022

Real-time train running information for 1H88 1253 departure from Llandudno Junction to Manchester Airport on 21/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[SuperLuke2334]

According to RTT looks like they split at Chester 13:47-14:02, did something go wrong or was this all planned?

Realtime Trains | 1H88 1253 Llandudno Junction to Manchester Airport | 21/12/2022

Real-time train running information for 1H88 1253 departure from Llandudno Junction to Manchester Airport on 21/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think they wanted to move one unit over to Liverpool, but it didn't happen in the end.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

197's out today (According to RTT)
197004 - Llandudno - Manchester Airport
197006+197015 - Llandudno - Manchester Airport
197010 - Liverpool - Chester
Please tell me if I have anything wrong, or if anything changes.

Looks like they're on the Liverpool Line now Crossed out for contradiction

 

[SuperLuke2334]

197's out today (According to RTT)
197004 - Llandudno - Manchester Airport
197006+197015 - Llandudno - Manchester Airport
197010 - Liverpool - Chester
Please tell me if I have anything wrong, or if anything changes.

Looks like they're on the Liverpool Line now

They've been on Liverpool since the 12th.

 

[Jez]

Is this the first day that 4 197s have been in service on the same day ?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is this the first day that 4 197s have been in service on the same day ?

I think the same 4 trains were out on Monday 19th.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Is this the first day that 4 197s have been in service on the same day ?

Yes that's right. Been three a day prior to this.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yes that's right. Been three a day prior to this.

Are they not still running on the Conwy Valley Line?