CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[185]

I am rather struck with the fact that there is as much luggage rack provision within the first class area occupying half a coach as there is for the other 2 1/2 coaches of non-1st class. Do first class passengers have 4 to 5 times more luggage ?

These trains already represent a substantial reduction in STD seats, trolley areas, bike areas.. should be one universal area... there's not a lot of passenger areas. So many already rammed full and standing trains in non-cardiff areas of TfW. The 1st class should be 50% of its size - 8 seats maximum. Dread to see these on the Manchesters.

 

[60159]

Nope, it's run a couple of times before. Now a booked working.

Thanks.

 

[sw1ller]

PTS says and RTT confirms that the 22.32 Chester- Shrewsbury and return is 197 hauled going out as class 2 and back as 1.
Is this the first service on the line?

First run was on Monday night. There was a fair bit of confusion with traincrew trying to find out if it was route cleared before taking it.

 

[60159]

I

First run was on Monday night. There was a fair bit of confusion with traincrew trying to find out if it was route cleared before taking it.

Cheers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regard to First Class, the BBC programme "How to Fix a Railway"* at 12 minutes and 42 seconds in appears to show Class 197 first class, which looks to be Fainsa first class seats similar to the 80x though curiously with a slightly narrower central armrest. They appear to have the thicker cushion and headrest wings found on the Mk5a/397 version of the seat. You can tell it's 1st because the recliner buttons are visible on the frame. The width is such that I'd be surprised were it not 2+1.

* https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001jypp/how-to-fix-a-railway

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197108 went to Wolverton today for modification works. It worked this with 66420 https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train.php/?c=R03885&d=2023-03-08 What modifications are they having done at Wolverton? Asking for a friend.

 

[Caaardiff]

These trains already represent a substantial reduction in STD seats, trolley areas, bike areas.. should be one universal area... there's not a lot of passenger areas. So many already rammed full and standing trains in non-cardiff areas of TfW. The 1st class should be 50% of its size - 8 seats maximum. Dread to see these on the Manchesters.

I think it's been said plenty of times before, but for those at the back.

Most Manchester services will be 5 car. The whole point of these trains is that tfw can create flexibility within the fleet. There are many tfw routes where 2 car is ample.
5 car 197 will be a huge increase over the current 2-3 car 175s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

With regard to First Class, the BBC programme "How to Fix a Railway"* at 12 minutes and 42 seconds in appears to show Class 197 first class, which looks to be Fainsa first class seats similar to the 80x though curiously with a slightly narrower central armrest. They appear to have the thicker cushion and headrest wings found on the Mk5a/397 version of the seat. You can tell it's 1st because the recliner buttons are visible on the frame. The width is such that I'd be surprised were it not 2+1.

* https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001jypp/how-to-fix-a-railway

Would you consider taking some screenshots and showing the chat (if that’s legal, actually… I don’t know if it is) as it won’t allow anyone out of the UK to see

 

[6Gtraincrew]

So it looks like today will be the first passenger service run to Holyhead for the 197's as 197010 and 197018 are booked on the 1D32 17:25 MIA-HHD.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would you consider taking some screenshots and showing the chat (if that’s legal, actually… I don’t know if it is) as it won’t allow anyone out of the UK to see

Here you go (photos are snippets of the above programme showing two views of the First Class seats, one with the TfW representative sitting in one)

Apologies for it being a bit dark, the unit was unlit.

 

[Techniquest]

I watched that programme a couple of nights ago, I wasn't overly impressed with it to be honest. It might have been partly because of the narrator, who right got on my nerves by the end of it. However it would have been better if it had talked more about the improvements rather than focusing as much on everything that's still waiting to be fixed.

Having seen those First Class seats, they look like they have good support which is a plus, but did I seriously not see USB sockets? Surely an oversight, or just I missed the visual of them!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Here you go (photos are snippets of the above programme showing two views of the First Class seats, one with the TfW representative sitting in one)

Apologies for it being a bit dark, the unit was unlit.

Thank you. I think they look really rather nice.
I find the MK4 1st seats quite significantly less comfortable without the headrest piece. LNER fashioned a LNER branded one to replace the Virgin one within days. It wouldn’t be hard for TfW to do the same. It looks a bit sloppy without.

I watched that programme a couple of nights ago, I wasn't overly impressed with it to be honest. It might have been partly because of the narrator, who right got on my nerves by the end of it.

Was it Jason Done by any chance? His irritating over-serious/dramatic voice make Paddington 24/7 and Kings Cross 24/7 unwatchable for me.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Having seen those First Class seats, they look like they have good support which is a plus, but did I seriously not see USB sockets? Surely an oversight, or just I missed the visual of them!

They are just above the 3-pin socket in the black panel by the looks of it

 

[Techniquest]

Was it Jason Done by any chance? His irritating over-serious/dramatic voice make Paddington 24/7 and Kings Cross 24/7 unwatchable for me.

Stephen-something, I didn't make a proper note of the name. I seem to vaguely remember having similar issues to you with those programmes, dramatising things for the sake of making it interesting TV is one thing but the way some producers do it, well it's just stupid.

They are just above the 3-pin socket in the black panel by the looks of it

So they are, I definitely missed it then. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thank you. I think they look really rather nice.

I've sat in a Mk5a First Class seat and I can confirm it was very comfortable, probably better even than the Pendolino which previously was my favourite UK First Class seat, these appear to be the same in a different colour. If this is the final seat this probably is worth paying for (though only in the window aligned section).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've sat in a Mk5a First Class seat and I can confirm it was very comfortable, probably better even than the Pendolino which previously was my favourite UK First Class seat, these appear to be the same in a different colour. If this is the final seat this probably is worth paying for (though only in the window aligned section).

Yes they look the same don't they. I've done them on the 397s, very nice, they make the basic version in the Nova 1s look naff especially with the blue fabric vice classy cream leather.

 

[StKeverne1497]

Would you consider taking some screenshots and showing the chat (if that’s legal, actually… I don’t know if it is) as it won’t allow anyone out of the UK to see

You probably shouldn't, and I don't know if it actually works outside the UK, but there is a very handy utility called get_iplayer which I use when I wish to download a BBC (or S4C) programme (both TV and radio) at my leisure to watch or listen to later without having to worry about issues with "live" streaming - particularly important as we're on a slowish connection. It's a command line utility (I think GUIs are available but I've never felt the need) and once you've installed it, the incantation which would download the programme in question would be:

get_iplayer --get --type=tv --pid=m001jypp --subtitles

(obviously, omit the subtitles option if you don't need it)

The resulting file can be played in VLC / mplayer / your video app of choice. get_iplayer is "tolerated" by the BBC for various reasons (and if it becomes apparent that it's being abused that might change), but they do occasionally make changes to iPlayer which "break" get_iplayer.

It might have been partly because of the narrator, who right got on my nerves by the end of it.

I sorta liked the narrator and his script, though I agree the programme was a bit unbalanced. His name is Steve Spiers. He's done quite a lot of things over the years, films and TV, mostly small parts with his more substantial roles being in Wales-based comedies such as Stella, though he has had recurring roles in recent programmes such as Upstart Crow. Most recently he has written and starred in The Tuckers which is another Wales-based comedy which I think only shows in Wales.

 

[Jez]

So it looks like today will be the first passenger service run to Holyhead for the 197's as 197010 and 197018 are booked on the 1D32 17:25 MIA-HHD.

Thats good news. How many 197s are in passenger service in total today ?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I just passed a 197/0 being pulled by a loco (6Q97 0944 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site)?)
Anyone know which loco and 197 that is?

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Thats good news. How many 197s are in passenger service in total today ?

There are no Blaenau trains or Liverpool trains today due to the weather so no 197's used there.

So started off with six in service, but 010 came out of service at 09:50. So five left out and about today.

 

[Bob Price]

I just passed a 197/0 being pulled by a loco (6Q97 0944 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site)?)
Anyone know which loco and 197 that is?

I believe 020.

 

[Jez]

There are no Blaenau trains or Liverpool trains today due to the weather so no 197's used there.

So started off with six in service, but 010 came out of service at 09:50. So five left out and about today.

thanks for the reply. So its possible we could see 8 in service per day if the Blaenau and Liverpool routes are running.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

thanks for the reply. So its possible we could see 8 in service per day if the Blaenau and Liverpool routes are running.

Looks that way, but don't hold your breath as due to unit shortages the Blaenau and Liverpool lines are off all next week. Also Bidston and Newport-Crosskeys.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

thanks for the reply. So its possible we could see 8 in service per day if the Blaenau and Liverpool routes are running.

I'd say 7, as 010 failed with a fault today and was taken off at Chester to be fixed. More likely to be a single unit if Blaenau and Liverpools are running. Wonder what 010 will work tomorrow seeing as its ended up in Holyhead tonight.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

I'd say 7, as 010 failed with a fault today and was taken off at Chester to be fixed. More likely to be a single unit if Blaenau and Liverpools are running. Wonder what 010 will work tomorrow seeing as its ended up in Holyhead tonight.

It's heading back as the 20:31 HHD-CRE with a unit swap at Chester for 158830 doing the CTR-CRE bit

 

[Express380]

I'd say 7, as 010 failed with a fault today and was taken off at Chester to be fixed. More likely to be a single unit if Blaenau and Liverpools are running. Wonder what 010 will work tomorrow seeing as its ended up in Holyhead tonight.

010 Has supposedly gone back to Chester by starting the 20:31 to Crewe late to get the 197 back to Chester for the morning with the onward part being done by a 158

 

[Philip]

It's heading back as the 20:31 HHD-CRE with a unit swap at Chester for 158830 doing the CTR-CRE bit

This suggests the 197 appearance on 17:25 Man Airport to Holyhead was a one off (until May), as they won't want to start the 20:31 to Crewe late on a regular basis. It'll probably still be booked as a 175 service until May, or when 197s start working Holyhead to Cardiff services.

 

[Express380]

This suggests the 197 appearance on 17:25 Man Airport to Holyhead was a one off (until May), as they won't want to start the 20:31 to Crewe late on a regular basis. It'll probably still be booked as a 175 service until May, or when 197s start working Holyhead to Cardiff services.

Maybe not 100% also down to the fact that any diagram it worked off Holyhead in the morning it would need to be swapped with all workings going to Cardiff or ending up on the Cambrian later in the day

 

[Jez]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but is it because of the weather trains can't run on the Blaunau branch line and Chester to Liverpool? Or is it a shortage of trains. If its the latter then why can't 197s be used given they are only working Manchester to North Wales? I could understand if it was still Sprinters booked for these routes. Is there something else going on ?

 

[Caaardiff]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but is it because of the weather trains can't run on the Blaunau branch line and Chester to Liverpool? Or is it a shortage of trains. If its the latter then why can't 197s be used given they are only working Manchester to North Wales? I could understand if it was still Sprinters booked for these routes. Is there something else going on ?

They are being used to help with the lack of 175s in service.