It depends whether they're cleared for the route just to travel on, or whether they'll be permitted for passenger service too, for that all the ASDO etc will have to be set up so its obviously a bigger job. I know they're lined up to be cleared but if that's in service too I'm not sure.
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
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I guess it will be the same as the 175s in that they are cleared to work Heart of Wales line but very rarely will actually do so.
It makes sense as in the event of disruption or having to move sets between North and South it will be useful for them to be cleared for this route.
Anonymous10
Established Member
It would just thinking cleared for passengers given the limited access on the route would be good.
I don't think that I've ever seen HoWL diversions, not on any occasion when the Marches has been closed (washouts at Pontrilas do happen from time to time). The most likely time to see 197s on the HoWL will be when the Royal Welsh Show is on.
Wouldn't have thought it would have much capacity to do so.
Cant see there ever being diversions that way, would take forever waiting to pass everywhere. You'd also end up past where the majority want to go with skipping out Cardiff.
It's only likely to rotate units between North and South should there be a long closure of the Marches.
Would agree about the Welsh show, does seem the most likely time to be used on extras or strengthening.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Would make sense to clear them for the Heart of Wales, solely to get rid of the 153s in ten or so years time
Envoy
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To get from Llanelli to Shrewsbury only takes around 25 minutes longer via the Heart of Wales (including all the stops) than going the longer way via The Marches. So, in the event of a closure on The Marches, it surely would be sensible to have the HoW cleared for 197’s in passenger use? If The Marches were closed for some reason and the Heart of Wales remained as just one or two coach 153’s, it would never cope with the numbers of passengers trying to get between SW Wales and Shrewsbury and beyond. Being as very long special trains occasionally go along the HoW, I see no reason why long rakes of 197’s could not use the route with passengers in an emergency.
How many people do you think actually want to travel from Llanelli to Shrewsbury? Almost all of the passengers on the Marches are coming from Cardiff or Newport (including connections). It's usually quicker to go via Gloucester or use rail replacement buses in the event of disruption.
Dai Corner
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But not many passengers want to go from Shrewsbury to Llanelli. They want to go from places like Manchester to places like Newport, Cardiff and Swansea and intermediately. A better diversionary route would probably be via Birmingham and Hereford or Gloucester.
Does the ASDO have to be set up for very-occasional use, can they not revert to local-door operation if for some reason they have to stop somewhere that they wouldn't normally serve? The 175s presumably use local-door on the rare occasions they've been down the HOWL (can't remember whether 175s have any form of SDO).
I've not seen it in person, but I can remember seeing photos in Arriva days of both 175s and 158s (the latter locked out of use) running along the HOWL when the Marches had been closed for a while (forget whether it was due to washouts or planned engineering work) to swap units between north and south (presumably for maintenance purposes).
Good point about strengthening - when I read Krokodil's post I was thinking of the traditional extra Cardiff-Llandrindod additional service via the Swansea District Line but your comment reminded me that the normal HOWL service has also been strengthened during the Royal Welsh Show - the year I saw it the extra working was 2x class 150 and the normal Swansea-Shrewsbury workings were strengthened to 150+153. I wonder if TfW are retaining enough 153s to strengthen the normal workings to 3-car?
ASDO is built into the way doors are released so it would have to be over ridden at every single station, I'd be suprised if that would be signed off as a method of work for a new train even if it is only for rare use.
There's some work taking place down there at the minute for the 'Active travel' 153s which Will ensure 2 car trains fit everywhere but any 3 car 153s would either have to use local door at quite a few stops or run Limited stop extras, that's going rather off topic for this thread!
Can anyone tell.me what services that pass through Manchester are likely to be a 3 car 197. I'm there later this week would like to experience a 3 car if I can. I did check the diagrams posted on this thread but some were formed of pairs of 197s (2 x 2 cars) that were meant to be 3 and some weren't showing as anything on RTT as they were cancelled or part cancelled. Will check on the day but if anyone can give me the heads up would be appreciated. Thanks..
thanks. Will probably just check on the day and go from there as it does seem random at the moment.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
For those try checking a previous (or later) journey that unit made, they often still show them.
anthony263
Established Member
On one Facebook group there's supposed to be another three class 197s entering public service.
Quoted as being :
197001, 197016 and 197044
Quoted as being :
197001, 197016 and 197044
Thanks will try that. Its frustrating when a service is partly cancelled and it doesn't show the unit.
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I saw that on the Facebook group too. They are really entering service fast now !
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Acceptance exams taking place at ATC Crewe for the next few weeks to get all the ready units Accepted.
More 6 car proving runs tomorrow, Crewe to Manchester and Crewe to Shrewsbury to get that signed off, planned for 3x2 cars this time.
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anthony263
Established Member
Think tfw now under a lot of pressure to get them into service
Bevan Price
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08:4x Llandudno - Manchester Airport and 11:25 return from Airport were 197.104 on Monday and today (3 & 5 July).
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
197016 and 020 have entered service today.
childwallblues
Established Member
Both according to RTT on Llandudno services.
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
Yes V92 and V94 both seem to be 4 coaches now.
I'll be keeping an eye out for the next pair of 197s between Craven Arms and Church Stretton!
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
197007 came down this morning from Holyhead and was booked to return to its home territory on the 1823 to Chester, but the driver did not sign 197s so 175114 was brought along instead and all boarded (including me)
It remained on the platform until 1845 waiting for the driver to show - he didn’t - so it was then cancelled and passengers were transferred to the adjacent former Grand Central MK4 arriving in for Manchester Picc.
It remained on the platform until 1845 waiting for the driver to show - he didn’t - so it was then cancelled and passengers were transferred to the adjacent former Grand Central MK4 arriving in for Manchester Picc.
Sounds like a shambles ! The whole point of splitting the Llanelli to Chester is so it's a 197 the other side of Cardiff !
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
I suppose if the driver doesn’t sign there’s not much that can be done, but cancelling the 175 because the driver didn’t bother to turn up is shoddy. It’s just lucky the Manchester was a MK4 (and that most Cardiff students have already gone home) as a 150 would have left people behind.