CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[33017]

Unit shortage. There looks to be 5 197s that have been stopped on Chester for at least 5 days, one of them since late September.
That's why the Bidston is a 150 today and the Crewe-Chester shuttle a very unusual these days pair of 153s, it was also a 158 the other day.

Once more units are introduced a small amount waiting repair shouldn't be as obvious as It currently is with a relatively small fleet.

The Blaenau branch is a 150 vice 197, too.

The thing is, in TfW terms 197s aren’t a relatively small fleet - they’re the largest. And reliability is currently not good. Hard to see how increasing fleet size but maintaining them at the same, small depot will improve overall availability.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unit shortage. There looks to be 5 197s that have been stopped on Chester for at least 5 days, one of them since late September.
That's why the Bidston is a 150 today and the Crewe-Chester shuttle a very unusual these days pair of 153s, it was also a 158 the other day.

We should really be blaming the hopeless 230s for that, surely?

Very disappointed to find 197021 is with 013, not 045 as shown. Wasted trip to Newport and dashed hopes!

 

[sd0733]

We should really be blaming the hopeless 230s for that surely?

That's the root cause but 197s really aren't covering themselves in glory either. Today of the 27 passenger diagrams 8 are either uncovered, shortformed or running as something else. Almost 30% of the diagrams short would see other fleets hammered for their unreliability!

The Blaenau branch is a 150 vice 197, too.

The thing is, in TfW terms 197s aren’t a relatively small fleet - they’re the largest. And reliability is currently not good. Hard to see how increasing fleet size but maintaining them at the same, small depot will improve overall availability.

Agreed, they should by now be performing much better than they are. Even the trips where they are In service its rare to get no faults showing up at various points.

It was poorly worded on my part, meant more that with the training sets in the south and the moves required for these it does stretch the fleet somewhat doesn't help with availability.

 

[Jez]

8 diagrams covered with something else or being short formed isnt good. No wonder there are so many complaints from customers. When there are no 150s/158s and far less 153s in the fleet there will be nothing else to cover for poor availability of 197s.

 

[nigelsporne]

Here in the Midlands the 196 drivers say CAF stands for Call a Fitter!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Here in the Midlands the 196 drivers say CAF stands for Call a Fitter!

That's apparently because they are Cheap As F**k

 

[craigybagel]

8 diagrams covered with something else or being short formed isnt good. No wonder there are so many complaints from customers. When there are no 150s/158s and far less 153s in the fleet there will be nothing else to cover for poor availability of 197s.

By the time they reach that point there should be a lot more expertise built up around 197s so hopefully it'll be less likely to happen then.

Personally as others have suggested my first suspicion would be wheel flats - these units are very light on their feet and driving them this autumn has been a bit of a learning curve for drivers, most of whom are still very new to them.

 

[Bob Price]

Both 112 (Crewe Chester shuttle) and 105 are out today. Have the mods been done? Are we getting back to normal?

 

[sd0733]

Both 112 (Crewe Chester shuttle) and 105 are out today. Have the mods been done? Are we getting back to normal?

Looks to be a bit better today with just 4 short forms/swaps including again the Bidston.

Which mods? I'm not aware there are any.
They'll just be waiting space on the wheel lathes

 

[33017]

Here in the Midlands the 196 drivers say CAF stands for Call a Fitter!

Usually after they’ve Caused a Farce.

 

[Jez]

When on 197045 yesterday i noticed the automated announcement has changed from 'Dim ond i' then station name to the correct translation for 'we will be travelling ......to station name'. Is this something that has been updated on the entire fleet or only the new ones coming into service so far?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When on 197045 yesterday i noticed the automated announcement has changed from 'Dim ond i' then station name to the correct translation for 'we will be travelling ......to station name'. Is this something that has been updated on the entire fleet or only the new ones coming into service so far?

How very funny, as I was coming online just to bring the same thing up.

The red interior MK4s were the first to have the horrid Elin+Eryl announcements, and all started off with
"Byddwn yn teithio i."

But then the 197s, 231s and GC MK4s all entered service with "Dim ond I" (which I HATE, it sounds so annoying like a silly rhyme - "Dim on deee, Caergi-beeee")

And then I noticed some red MK4 sets had this too, although some still had "Byddwn yn teithio i."

And NOW, I've noticed some 231s and 197s saying "Byddwn yn teithio I," so clearly they can't make up their mind.

I was also on 197045 yesterday, complete with a very well-spoken and coherent female guard with a very pleasant neutral accent that would have made for far more nicer recordings than Elin Llwyd's Joanna Page attack on the ears Shame the PIS kept freezing though.

 

[Jez]

How very funny, as I was coming online just to bring the same thing up.

The red interior MK4s were the first to have the horrid Elin+Eryl announcements, and all started off with
"Byddwn yn teithio i."

But then the 197s, 231s and GC MK4s all entered service with "Dim ond I" (which I HATE, it sounds so annoying like a silly rhyme - "Dim on deee, Caergi-beeee")

And then I noticed some red MK4 sets had this too, although some still had "Byddwn yn teithio i."

And NOW, I've noticed some 231s and 197s saying "Byddwn yn teithio I," so clearly they can't make up their mind.

I was also on 197045 yesterday, complete with a very well-spoken and coherent female guard with a very pleasant neutral accent that would have made for far more nicer recordings than Elin Llwyd's Joanna Page attack on the ears Shame the PIS kept freezing though.

I like Eryl (he sounds the same as Glyn the Welsh voice on the TFW station announcements) and I didnt mind Dim Ond I but it was odd that there was a long gap before they said the destination. But its good its.now corrected. Hearing Elin constantly is quite annoying and irritating I quite agree!

How funny I got 045 yesterday too but did 17xx Port Talbot to Cardiff Central. What's the issue when attaching trains at Central it seems to take a long time and ended up leaving about 20 mins late..

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How funny I got 045 yesterday too but did 17xx Port Talbot to Cardiff Central. What's the issue when attaching trains at Central it seems to take a long time and ended up leaving about 20 mins late..

Yes, and although mine arrived to Bridgend on time (the outbound service), the return 104 pulled in 20 minutes late also.

 

[Jez]

Yes, and although mine arrived to Bridgend on time (the outbound service), the return 104 pulled in 20 minutes late also.

It arrived at Central about 15 minutes late but still managed to lose a ridiculous amount of time despite attaching to the other 197 being done fairly quickly.

0930 Manchester to Swansea formed of a 3 car 197 but swapped at Cardiff due to the 197s not being cleared for the Vale of Glamorgan. Reminds me of the days before they were cleared West of Cardiff. At least its a 158 so far better than a 150 or 153.

 

[david1212]

The Blaenau branch is a 150 vice 197, too.

My guess would be wheelset damage - wheel flats as it is after all the leaf-fall season. And it is I suppose the fleets first large scale exposure to the leaf-fall season so expect some new problems/lessons.

Happy to be corrected.

From the independent Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railway commentary website http://www.isengard.co.uk/

Main Line news 24/11/23
The Conwy Valley rail service has seen delays and cancellations with the Class 197 DMUs suffering poor adhesion on the steeply graded section south of Betws-y-coed due to accumulated leaf mulch. At least one train had to be sent back because of wheel-slip near Pont-y-pant. Tried and trusted Class 150s have been substituted in recent days.

 

[Peter Sarf]

From the independent Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railway commentary website http://www.isengard.co.uk/

So the power controller might need a gentler setting ?.

I suppose having to apply enough power to overcome the almost released parking brake is then too much for the available adhesion. As others have commented, there is a jerk as the 197 moves off - to my mind that is asking for trouble if the leaf mulch is enough to allow wheel spin too easily.

 

[Cestrian21]

So the power controller might need a gentler setting ?.

I suppose having to apply enough power to overcome the almost released parking brake is then too much for the available adhesion. As others have commented, there is a jerk as the 197 moves off - to my mind that is asking for trouble if the leaf mulch is enough to allow wheel spin too easily.

I think there's some crossed wires here. The issue on the Conwy Valley seems to be low adhesion on the very steeply graded section between Betws-y-Coed and Pont-y-Pant (1 in 47 in places), it's not really related to the initial taking power from stations.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think there's some crossed wires here. The issue on the Conwy Valley seems to be low adhesion on the very steeply graded section between Betws-y-Coed and Pont-y-Pant (1 in 47 in places), it's not really related to the initial taking power from stations.

Ah good point. If the 197 is not stationary then that is nothing to do with directly starting - unless TfW are just wary of a train coming to a stand on the 1 in 47 for some reason and then needing to be capable of getting going again. Maybe just being cautious this season.

 

[Dan G]

I'd really like to know how a 150 has better traction on the go than a 197 in low adhesion conditions. I doubt that note on Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railway's website is correct.

 

[Western 52]

Does the power drive to a single axle on each 197 vehicle? I thought 150s were similar, but they have less powerful engines.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Does the power drive to a single axle on each 197 vehicle? I thought 150s were similar, but they have less powerful engines.

I know for sure that only 1 bogey per coach is driven. I think (but could be wrong) that only the one axle is driven (specifically the 3rd axle from the front on any given coach).

 

[Richard Scott]

I know for sure that only 1 bogey per coach is driven. I think (but could be wrong) that only the one axle is driven (specifically the 3rd axle from the front on any given coach).

Both axles linked on same bogie so both driven. Effectively a 2-B arrangement, I believe.

 

[Western 52]

Surprising they slip with 2 driven axles. They must be putting down a lot of power when starting or climbing.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Both axles linked on same bogie so both driven. Effectively a 2-B arrangement, I believe.

Ahh! Thank you for confirming

 

[Richard Scott]

Surprising they slip with 2 driven axles. They must be putting down a lot of power when starting or climbing.

Not a lot of adhesive weight, though!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hoping to find 102, 103 and 107 in service any day now?

 

[childwallblues]

According to RTT 197108 is on the 0620 WRX-LIV. Is this its first day in service? It certainly has not been to Liverpool before.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

According to RTT 197108 is on the 0620 WRX-LIV. Is this its first day in service? It certainly has not been to Liverpool before.

No it’s been out since mid-November(ish).

 

[childwallblues]

No it’s been out since mid-November(ish).

Thank you. I seem to miss these reports. Anyway I shall de riding it in about 90 minutes.