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Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

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dp21

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Sounds like a strange choice - what's wrong with the traditional Buckeye couplers?

Don't think anyone's fitted buckeye couplers to new stock for a good few years now. Dellner/Schafenbergs seem to be more the standard these days. Besides, there's been a push towards coupling standardisation so this would support that.

On another note I'm quite intrigued by the bogies on these things as the seem even more minimalist than on the likes of the 700s and 345s. I guess less kit is needed as they're all trailer cars but still.
 
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USRailFan

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Don't think anyone's fitted buckeye couplers to new stock for a good few years now. Dellner/Schafenbergs seem to be more the standard these days. Besides, there's been a push towards coupling standardisation so this would support that.

Never heard of Dellners being used on traditional hauled stock anywhere else, only on MUs. Mostly it's still traditional buffers and chain couplers elsewhere in Europe. Or custom MU-style shourt couplings in case of e.g. the Austrian Railjet
 

GW43125

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Don't think anyone's fitted buckeye couplers to new stock for a good few years now. Dellner/Schafenbergs seem to be more the standard these days. Besides, there's been a push towards coupling standardisation so this would support that.

The buckeye was standard. And it worked very well. Anything could couple to anything and usually have brake continuity too.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I cannot wait to see the interior!!!

You already can on their website... I'll let someone else dig up the links as I'm off to work in a few moments. I think they are up either this thread or the general Caledonian Sleeper thread though.
 

dp21

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Never heard of Dellners being used on traditional hauled stock anywhere else, only on MUs. Mostly it's still traditional buffers and chain couplers elsewhere in Europe. Or custom MU-style shourt couplings in case of e.g. the Austrian Railjet

This is a fair point - may be a british standard somewhere which dictates it can't be buffer and chain? Not sure.

The buckeye was standard. And it worked very well. Anything could couple to anything and usually have brake continuity too.

Was standard. I appreciate your point but I can't see anything being built from new having buckeyes anymore.
 

USRailFan

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The buckeye was standard. And it worked very well. Anything could couple to anything and usually have brake continuity too.

And with Buckeyes you could have had the possibility to, in a changeover period, run mixed formations of old and new stock.
 

USRailFan

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AIUI screw couplings don't provide enough anti-override protection for the UK safety standards.

Isn't it still screw couplings between loco and coaches tho? I thought most locos nowadays had both Buckeye and screw but that might not be the case?
 

Scotrail84

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Isn't it still screw couplings between loco and coaches tho? I thought most locos nowadays had both Buckeye and screw but that might not be the case?


Yes it is, Also emergency screw couplings are kept in each guards van of the sleeper vehicles for instances when buckeyes wont catch a screw coupling can be used to couple coaches together. Cant be used as a walk through though, gangway doors must closed and locked with this practise.
 

ScottDarg

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Press release:

http://newtrains.sleeper.scot/news/first-of-new-caledonian-sleeper-trains-arrive-in-uk/
First of new Caledonian Sleeper trains arrive in UK
The first carriages from the new £100m fleet of Caledonian Sleeper trains have arrived in the UK ahead of their introduction to service later this year.

Starting in October 2018, the overnight rail service will begin to be transformed as 75 new carriages are introduced in a phased transition. A total of five carriages have this morning arrived in the outskirts of Glasgow, where they will start extensive testing over the coming months. These initial five carriages are still to be fitted out internally following testing. Fully fitted out carriages will arrive in the UK at a later date.

The carriages have travelled through the Channel Tunnel to Scotland from the Velim Test Centre in the Czech Republic where they have been undergoing mandatory trials.

The introduction of new trains will be the culmination of a wide range of improvements and investment in Caledonian Sleeper since Serco took over the franchise on behalf of the Scottish Government in April 2015. These have had a dramatic impact on the service and after years of decline in patronage, the number of customer journeys has increased by 21%.

With the countdown on to the introduction of the new trains – which will initially debut on the ‘Lowlander’ route between London and Glasgow/Edinburgh – Caledonian Sleeper has announced that tickets will be made available from next month on Sleeper.scot.

Humza Yousaf MSP, Minister for Transport and Islands
, said: “The Caledonian Sleeper is an iconic rail service, recognised in Scotland and across the world. The introduction of new rolling stock, with features new to UK railways, can only enhance its reputation. The arrival of the first trains to Scotland for testing is a major milestone and one that brings us closer to their introduction from October of this year.”

The new trains are currently being constructed by CAF in Spain, at a cost of over £100m, part funded by a capital grant from Scottish Ministers of £60m. They will be the first sleeper trains to be introduced to the UK for over 35 years.

As agreed with Transport Scotland and following consultation with guests and other stakeholders, anyone who books a room on the new trains will be guaranteed solo occupancy unless they choose to share with a partner. Tickets for the new Caledonian Sleeper are extremely competitively priced, with Comfort Seats starting from £45; Classic Rooms starting from £85 per person; Club Rooms from £125 per person; and Suites from £200 per person.

Pricing and accommodation options for the current trains will remain in place until new trains are introduced in October, with transitional pricing then coming into effect on the ‘Highlander’ route.

Peter Strachan, Chairman, Serco Caledonian Sleeper, said: “We believe the new Caledonian Sleeper trains will truly set a new standard in overnight travel and we have worked closely with Transport Scotland on their development since taking over the franchise in 2015.

“The Sleeper is known throughout the UK as a great way to travel and it is our intention to improve on every aspect of that journey, while offering great value of money for our guests. It is particularly exciting to welcome the first carriages to Scotland, as it highlights just how close we are to the debut of the new trains on our Lowlander route this October.”

Official introduction date now stated as October 2018 instead of Spring 2018.
 

gsnedders

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Sounds like a strange choice - what's wrong with the traditional Buckeye couplers?
The need to manually connect/disconnect brake pipes and electrical supply, and having to have someone to do that, and having that person reaching between coaches getting shunted, and the time saved by avoiding that. Remember that the sleeper is nowadays the only UK service operated by LHCS that splits/joins (unless I'm mistaken).

And with Buckeyes you could have had the possibility to, in a changeover period, run mixed formations of old and new stock.
They can't anyway, because the new stock needs 1500V ETS v. the standard 800V (900V? I forget), given the comparatively high power draw of it.

There are no longer drophead Buckeyes on British passenger locos?
Define "passenger loco". :)

The majority of locos built in the past twenty years have been built almost solely for freight use, and many of them don't.

From the past two and a bit decades, we've had six types of loco; two of which, 66 and 70, are notionally freight only, and only the 67 of the three mixed locos has had buckeyes (with the 68s, 88s and 92s not).
 
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Bletchleyite

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The need to manually connect/disconnect brake pipes and electrical supply, and having to have someone to do that, and having that person reaching between coaches getting shunted, and the time saved by avoiding that. Remember that the sleeper is nowadays the only UK service operated by LHCS that splits/joins (unless I'm mistaken).

Jumpers will still have to be done manually, I'm sure I recall reading on here that there isn't an autocoupler on the market that can carry a full ETS load.
 

Scotrail84

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Jumpers will still have to be done manually, I'm sure I recall reading on here that there isn't an autocoupler on the market that can carry a full ETS load.

Jumper cables will still need to be manually connected/disconected as will the coupler when uncoupling.
 

TimboM

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Press release:

http://newtrains.sleeper.scot/news/first-of-new-caledonian-sleeper-trains-arrive-in-uk/


Official introduction date now stated as October 2018 instead of Spring 2018.

Is the quote below, contained lower down in that press release, new info? Specifically the prices and that they will be introduced once the new stock comes in (although from what we've seen I think what they mean is they're changing the pricing now but calling the old rooms "Classic" and then they'll introduce the Club/Suite rooms with the new stock). Also "FROM £xx per person" doesn't really say what the max will be - and also as it's per person, then a Suite (double bed) is therefore £400 minimum??

As agreed with Transport Scotland and following consultation with guests and other stakeholders, anyone who books a room on the new trains will be guaranteed solo occupancy unless they choose to share with a partner. Tickets for the new Caledonian Sleeper are extremely competitively priced, with Comfort Seats starting from £45; Classic Rooms starting from £85 per person; Club Rooms from £125 per person; and Suites from £200 per person.

Pricing and accommodation options for the current trains will remain in place until new trains are introduced in October, with transitional pricing then coming into effect on the ‘Highlander’ route.
 

BRX

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That suggests they will introduce the new stock on the Highlander first?
 

TimboM

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That suggests they will introduce the new stock on the Highlander first?
Yes, spotted that too - previous suggestions (on forums) had been Lowlander hadn't it (so stock ended up at Polmadie or Wembley to sort any teething problems)?
 

ScottDarg

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Yes, spotted that too - previous suggestions (on forums) had been Lowlander hadn't it (so stock ended up at Polmadie or Wembley to sort any teething problems)?

Quote from the CS Chairman seems to suggest that the intention is still for the Lowlander to get them first:
as it highlights just how close we are to the debut of the new trains on our Lowlander route this October.
 

route:oxford

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It's great they chose a heritage 37 unit to draw the sleepers on their first trip in the UK.
 

dgl

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Another advantage of Schafenburg/Delleners is they need very little force to couple, which on a sleeper train which couples/uncouples in service it a very good thing.
 

DimTim

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These carriages are still to be fitted out. Are they returning to Spain at some point? And how?
 

dubscottie

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Never heard of Dellners being used on traditional hauled stock anywhere else, only on MUs. Mostly it's still traditional buffers and chain couplers elsewhere in Europe. Or custom MU-style shourt couplings in case of e.g. the Austrian Railjet

The Enterprise stock and Mk4 stock in Ireland uses Dellner couplers. (Throughout on the Enterprise and between coaches on Mk4 with a tightlock is used between loco and stock).
 

TimboM

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These carriages are still to be fitted out. Are they returning to Spain at some point? And how?
I very much doubt it - on site at Polmadie I reckon, if not somewhere like the works at Kilmarnock.

There’s some photos earlier in this thread that @Tam took in Velim where he sneaked a few shots through the windows - they’re certainly not empty shells - I think a fair amount of the core “innards” are there (like Seat frames). I think CS are a) trying to deter people trying to look/get inside them; and b) if they do see inside them when on test etc to make clear it’s not the finished article.
 

TimboM

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Quote from the CS Chairman seems to suggest that the intention is still for the Lowlander to get them first:
It does indeed. It was this bit that confused me:
Pricing and accommodation options for the current trains will remain in place until new trains are introduced in October, with transitional pricing then coming into effect on the ‘Highlander’ route.
...but I think what they’re saying is October is when the Lowlander will be new stock and new prices/options will be introduced for that, but then there’ll be some transitional arrangements whilst the old stock is still on the Highlander.

By the way, has anyone noticed they’re now going to be trying to roll out the new stock in the middle of leaf-fall/wheelflats season?!
 
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