Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

[TimboM]

They would fall down well before that - the Mk5s have Scharfenberg couplers, not the traditional drawgear that the Mk5as have.

Class 90s hauled the Mk5s (via Mk3 translator coaches) on the 110 mph test runs, so cannot be all that impossible for them to run without being connected to a loco with the right TMS/computer on board?

 

[Highlandspring]

I’m wondering now whether it might actually have been an ETH issue... along the lines of

No/unstable ETH supply -> TMS on coaches says ‘no’ -> brakes won’t release

But as I say I know very little about the Mk5 coaches so I can only go by what I’m told and who knows what filters that has passed through before it gets to me. In any case the ex Killy coaches are still sitting in Barassie Yard apparently with square wheels, from which you can draw your own conclusions.

 

[Scotrail84]

Brakes isolated, relying on the barrier vehicles for braking force.

Sorry... as above a ‘swinger’ is an old railway term for an unbraked vehicle whether by design, intention or otherwise.

Cheers, I've never heard that term used before.

 

[gsnedders]

Class 90s hauled the Mk5s (via Mk3 translator coaches) on the 110 mph test runs, so cannot be all that impossible for them to run without being connected to a loco with the right TMS/computer on board?

What's the max speed of them, actually? 110? 125? Or was it 100 + 10% overspeed?

 

[Scotrail84]

What's the max speed of them, actually? 110? 125? Or was it 100 + 10% overspeed?

100mph for the sleeper veh's. 125mph for the TPE sets.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

100mph for the sleeper veh's. 125mph for the TPE sets.

The TPE sets have a design speed of 125mph but are only certified for 100mph in service. Largely to reduce maintenance costs seeing as they won't see those speeds for the foreseeable due to working with 68s and along routes which are 90mph max for the most part. Testing them at 125mph +10% (137.5mph) would also be complicated with few options locomotive-wise: only 91s (or 67s if they have enough mileage to get there!) could do it unless you sent a rake back to Velím and used a continental loco.

 

[Gonzoiku]

Sorry... as above a ‘swinger’ is an old railway term for an unbraked vehicle whether by design, intention or otherwise.

Cheers, I've never heard that term used before.

I have, although in an entirely different context. I wondered if this might be an indication of a new facility to be provided on introduction of the new luxury service.....

I won't say if it was an attractive proposition or not!

GZ

 

[JohnMcL7]

If only a 73 or 92 can haul these carriages, what would happen if in service the locomotive failed - would the rescue locomotive simply couple to the dead locomotive to haul the carriages?

 

[GrimShady]

If only a 73 or 92 can haul these carriages, what would happen if in service the locomotive failed - would the rescue locomotive simply couple to the dead locomotive to haul the carriages?

It seems silly if the TMS can't be overridden.

 

[Scotrail84]

If only a 73 or 92 can haul these carriages, what would happen if in service the locomotive failed - would the rescue locomotive simply couple to the dead locomotive to haul the carriages?

Yes, thats all that can be done, would mean no ETH either.

 

[TimboM]

What's the max speed of them, actually? 110? 125? Or was it 100 + 10% overspeed?

100mph for the sleeper veh's. 125mph for the TPE sets.

I'm pretty sure the Sleeper Mk5s are 110 mph stock - hence the testing at this speed with the Skodas so they could be certified to this by NR etc. should there be an opportunity in future to run them up to the speeds. For the time being they'll get nowhere near that as the 92s max speed is 87.5 mph and I doubt 73/9s on the north of Edinburgh portions will go much faster than that.

 

[NotATrainspott]

100mph + 10% overspeed is 110mph. If I'm not mistaken, all rolling stock is tested for 10% overspeed.

 

[Highlandspring]

The Mk5s are rated at 110mph for in service use (see the extract from the Franchise Specification below). They were subject to the 10% overspeed test during the initial testing at Velim in the Czech Republic.

 

[TimboM]

The Mk5s are rated at 110mph for in service use (see the extract from the Franchise Specification below). They were subject to the 10% overspeed test during the initial testing at Velim in the Czech Republic.

Thanks for confirming HighlandSpring - that was my understanding, 110 mph stock; not 100 mph stock + 10%

With Class 90s being the only feasible traction for the high speed tests on the WCML and hence the requirement for Mk3s to be used as translators (specially upgraded to run at 110 mph vs their maximum 100 mph) there wasn't realistically going to be any UK testing at 121 mph...

 

[Scotrail84]

Thanks for confirming HighlandSpring - that was my understanding, 110 mph stock; not 100 mph stock + 10%

With Class 90s being the only feasible traction for the high speed tests on the WCML and hence the requirement for Mk3s to be used as translators (specially upgraded to run at 110 mph vs their maximum 100 mph) there wasn't realistically going to be any UK testing at 121 mph...

They won't get close to 100mph in normal service either. 87mph on a 92 and 90mph hauled by a 73.

 

[Mag_seven]

Its already been mentioned on the main Caledonian Sleeper thread but it is worth mentioning on this thread that the Mark 5 introduction has been delayed till next spring.

http://newtrains.sleeper.scot/news/update-on-the-introduction-of-the-new-caledonian-sleeper-trains/

Caledonian Sleeper is now able to confirm that its new fleet of trains will be operating from all stations by the end of May 2019, in time for the peak Summer season. The launch of the Lowland service between London, Glasgow and Edinburgh, which we had hoped to be in the Autumn of 2018, has been put back to Spring 2019, with the Highland service to Fort William, Inverness and Aberdeen following shortly after.

 

[cj_1985]

well.. I guess that means that it's much more likely that all the passenger 92s (ie. all but 032 and 044) will have been modified to be mechanically compatible with the mk5 stock

 

[_toommm_]

How will that work then with passengers presumably being charged more for the new stock, if it's not actually being introduced on time? I thought the new stock carried a premium price for it...

 

[TimboM]

How will that work then with passengers presumably being charged more for the new stock, if it's not actually being introduced on time? I thought the new stock carried a premium price for it...

Anyone booking Lowlander after 28 October has been offered the opportunity of a full refund.
The premium prices on the new stock are for the "Club" and "Suite" berths with en suite. As these don't exist on the current stock, guests won't be charged for them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone booking Lowlander after 28 October has been offered the opportunity of a full refund.
The premium prices on the new stock are for the "Club" and "Suite" berths with en suite. As these don't exist on the current stock, guests won't be charged for them.

For those who did have them and still wish to travel, are they refunding down to the Classic prices? I guess if not the passenger could achieve the same thing by refunding and rebooking.

 

[TimboM]

For those who did have them and still wish to travel, are they refunding down to the Classic prices? I guess if not the passenger could achieve the same thing by refunding and rebooking.

Have a look at posts from this morning on the main Sleeper thread for what’s been offered...

 

[rossco156433]

Coach 15101 has been dropped off at Brodies in Kilmarnock tonight having been brough up from Barassie yard with both inner axles on skates.

 

[mushroomchow]

So if I do the full Fort William run in February / March I should get a last chance to ride the old stock then?

 

[InOban]

Yes. AFAIK the Highlander was never meant to switch over before Easter anyway.

 

[MDB1images]

Noticed 92038 on the MZk5's at Polmadie today.
Also noticed the numbers on the coaching stock seemed more visible as they was in the Grey "swoop" in the livery (black writing on light grey as opposed to black on dark green)

 

[TimboM]

Noticed 92038 on the MZk5's at Polmadie today.
Also noticed the numbers on the coaching stock seemed more visible as they was in the Grey "swoop" in the livery (black writing on light grey as opposed to black on dark green)

92038 worked a 5Z92 / 5Z93 test outing to Mossend and back this afternoon.

 

[ScottDarg]

73968 is working between Polmadie and Perth this afternoon with 8 Mk.5s in tow. Mixture of fully branded and partially branded coaches (Caledonian Sleeper wording but no stag antlers at carriage ends).

5Z20 to Perth: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K64452/2018/11/18/advanced

5Z21 back to Polmadie: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K64453/2018/11/18/advanced

 

[ScottDarg]

Test/training/mileage accumulation runs look like they may be restarting. 92038 took a set down to Carlisle last week and there's been a few runs out to Mossend recently.

 

[Highlandspring]

92038 and 73966 are taking a rake of mk5s into platform 1 at Glasgow Central tonight for a filming job of some sort...

Out - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M41057/2018/12/15/advanced
(Though not reflected on the schedule this will run via Shields Jn to turn the train)

Return - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M41058/2018/12/15/advanced

 

[TBSchenker]

There was a rake of CS Mk5s in Carlisle platform 3 at 2340 last night with a 90 running around them. They had London Euston on the external displays, though clearly ECS heading back north.