Caledonian Sleeper

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Mathew S

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It does appear that a shortage of 92s might have been the problem as 92006 off the down Highlander has appeared at Glasgow to take the empties (and 92043) to Polmadie.
I may be being thick, but why would a shortage of locomotives cause the service to have to be started at Motherwell rather than Glasgow Central?
 

Mag_seven

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I may be being thick, but why would a shortage of locomotives cause the service to have to be started at Motherwell rather than Glasgow Central?
Because to start at Glasgow Central you would need two locos - one for the empty coaching stock and one for the service itself. If there is no available loco for the ECS you can run it straight out of Polmadie down to Motherwell and start there with no reversal required.
 

Steddenm

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I may be being thick, but why would a shortage of locomotives cause the service to have to be started at Motherwell rather than Glasgow Central?
One loco will take the ECS into GLC and sit on the buffers until another loco has taken the stock south to EUS. The ECS loco will then return to the depot. They need two Class 92s to be able to do this.
 

marks87

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One loco will take the ECS into GLC and sit on the buffers until another loco has taken the stock south to EUS. The ECS loco will then return to the depot. They need two Class 92s to be able to do this.
Could this be the first demonstration of a significant drawback in having Dellner couplers?

Obviously we can't assume an alternative loco would have been available, but it wasn't unheard of in the past for the Mk2/3 ECS to be brought in by a 66 or 47.
 

Journeyman

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I've yet to do a full overnighter in the Mark 5s, but on Saturday morning I travelled in the seated car from Edinburgh to Fort William. I'd never normally consider doing a full night in the seats, so it's about the only time I'd ever use them.

Must say I was quite impressed with the seated car, which I reckon is considerably better than the Mark 2s. The seats are spacious and comfortable, and I thought décor and lighting were good. Only niggle is that the coach was fresh out the depot on a changeover, and it was very cold when we boarded - it took some time to warm up, but the TM sorted us out with free hot drinks from the lounge car!

Ride, like a lot of new vehicles, is a touch on the firm side, and was excessively bouncy on the dodgier bits of the WHL.
 

Leo1961

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Could this be the first demonstration of a significant drawback in having Dellner couplers?

Obviously we can't assume an alternative loco would have been available, but it wasn't unheard of in the past for the Mk2/3 ECS to be brought in by a 66 or 47.
Quite simply, yes.
 

Meerkat

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Interesting article here on design proposals for new nightjet trains. Includes a sort of pod/capsule option for solo travellers a bit like what has been discussed on here at various points.

I thought it's also interesting that OBB see the splitting/combining of portions as a positive aspect of services, and a way of maximising destination options. Because many might view this as just another operational complication to make night services more difficult to justify financially.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/trac...T5HOnDCvJyD3L9wKUmTl1ugvprv4QtxWbImwY8dTRxBPM
Those luggage lockers can’t be all that big, and clambering into the bunks won’t be simple - the sliding partition and luggage locker means the ladder must be pretty near the foot of the bed with the ladder not pointing in the usual bunk bed angle.
 

JonathanH

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Could this be the first demonstration of a significant drawback in having Dellner couplers?

Obviously we can't assume an alternative loco would have been available, but it wasn't unheard of in the past for the Mk2/3 ECS to be brought in by a 66 or 47.
Quite simply, yes.
I'd argue that the first demonstration was after the brake issue at Stafford when a 92 had to be used as a translator at Crewe to allow a LSL 47 to shunt the coaches around but this is one of the first instances of it directly affecting the service.
 

Mathew S

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One loco will take the ECS into GLC and sit on the buffers until another loco has taken the stock south to EUS. The ECS loco will then return to the depot. They need two Class 92s to be able to do this.
Could this be the first demonstration of a significant drawback in having Dellner couplers?

Obviously we can't assume an alternative loco would have been available, but it wasn't unheard of in the past for the Mk2/3 ECS to be brought in by a 66 or 47.
I've yet to do a full overnighter in the Mark 5s, but on Saturday morning I travelled in the seated car from Edinburgh to Fort William. I'd never normally consider doing a full night in the seats, so it's about the only time I'd ever use them.

Must say I was quite impressed with the seated car, which I reckon is considerably better than the Mark 2s. The seats are spacious and comfortable, and I thought décor and lighting were good. Only niggle is that the coach was fresh out the depot on a changeover, and it was very cold when we boarded - it took some time to warm up, but the TM sorted us out with free hot drinks from the lounge car!

Ride, like a lot of new vehicles, is a touch on the firm side, and was excessively bouncy on the dodgier bits of the WHL.
Thank you all. Is there no facility at Central then, like there still is in some of the platforms at Manchester Piccadilly, for example, to stop short of the buffers and run a loco around? Whilst I don't imagine it being used very much, that would seem like a useful thing to have.
 

Mag_seven

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Is there no facility at Central then, like there still is in some of the platforms at Manchester Piccadilly, for example, to stop short of the buffers and run a loco around?
There isn't that facility although in days gone by they used to put some ECS into the carriage sidings outside the station, have the loco run round and then propel the stock in.
 

SteveM70

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There isn't that facility although in days gone by they used to put some ECS into the carriage sidings outside the station, have the loco run round and then propel the stock in.
Is there a compelling operational reason not to have done last night, or was operational convenience prioritised ahead of customer service?
 

alangla

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Glasgow Central is also pretty busy right up to the close of service plus probably no-one that would be involved would have done a manoeuvre like that, so greatly increased risk of a mishap.

In EWS days the ECS loco used to be whatever was sitting spare at Mossend, you could have a 37 one night and a 92 the next.
 

Far north 37

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Glasgow Central is also pretty busy right up to the close of service plus probably no-one that would be involved would have done a manoeuvre like that, so greatly increased risk of a mishap.

In EWS days the ECS loco used to be whatever was sitting spare at Mossend, you could have a 37 one night and a 92 the next.
Seen a few class 60s on it too.
 

JonathanH

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Cancelled? Why wouldn't they be diverted via the ECML?
Diversions via the ECML cannot be organised at short notice

For a start the longer running time means southbound passengers would be late arriving in London and northbound highlander portions would miss their paths beyond Edinburgh.

I would guess that different traincrew are needed as well for ECML working who can't be arranged at short notice.

With it being a Wednesday night, are the on board staff at the 'wrong' end as well?
 

Essexman

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I’ve cancelled my trip to Fort William.
Can’t blame CS that the wires are down.
Helpful lady from CS rang me back to tell me as soon as the decision was made.
I was looking forward to my first trip on West Highland Line in the new stock.
 

Muenchener

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Diversions via the ECML cannot be organised at short notice

For a start the longer running time means southbound passengers would be late arriving in London and northbound highlander portions would miss their paths beyond Edinburgh.

I would guess that different traincrew are needed as well for ECML working who can't be arranged at short notice.

With it being a Wednesday night, are the on board staff at the 'wrong' end as well?
I understand some of the practicalities of that but how are the pax to reach their destinations? Tomorrow's service; 24 hrs later?
 

JonathanH

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I understand some of the practicalities of that but how are the pax to reach their destinations? Tomorrow's service; 24 hrs later?
Not bother, go by alternative day train, replacement road transport or fly.

If the railway line is not available then the train can't run - same as planes would be cancelled if airports were shut and coaches would be cancelled if the motorways were blocked.

The sleeper isn't any more precious than the other trains that haven't got through today.
 

cf111

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What’s silly is that this isn’t front and centre on their web homepage (as at 1838hrs).
That is very poor indeed. A previous iteration of the website had a light green bar at the very top advising visitors how things were running, it was very obvious. I am on a mobile so maybe it is still there on the desktop version.

The one time that something similar to tonight has happened to me when First ran the show, they let us sleep on the train in Euston overnight and to travel north on either East Coast from Kings Cross or on Virgin from Euston. Hopefully this doesn't affect Friday night's workings as I don't fancy a coach from Inverness!
 

Darandio

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I understand some of the practicalities of that but how are the pax to reach their destinations? Tomorrow's service; 24 hrs later?
Replacement road transport is being arranged, they are also trying to sort ticket acceptance.

One guy on Twitter has demanded they allow him to now use the 19:00 from Kings Cross instead but they told him ticket acceptance wasn't in place yet. He's adamant that he will go anyway and his ticket will be accepted. Good luck with that.
 

cf111

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Replacement road transport is being arranged, they are also trying to sort ticket acceptance.

One guy on Twitter has demanded they allow him to now use the 19:00 from Kings Cross instead but they told him ticket acceptance wasn't in place yet. He's adamant that he will go anyway and his ticket will be accepted. Good luck with that.
I had just had a wee deek and Twitter and was about to post pretty much what you've said.

I can understand the gent's frustrations even if I don't think he's being particularly polite with the person on the other side of the screen. The WCML has been disrupted for most of the day, I would have thought that ticket acceptance with LNER could have been sought at least in principal this afternoon and then advised to passengers after the 6pm decision to cancel the sleepers given the limited number of trains south later in the evening.
 

Muenchener

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Replacement road transport is being arranged, they are also trying to sort ticket acceptance.

One guy on Twitter has demanded they allow him to now use the 19:00 from Kings Cross instead but they told him ticket acceptance wasn't in place yet. He's adamant that he will go anyway and his ticket will be accepted. Good luck with that.
Rail Replacement transport is less than ideal for such journey but it gets people moving in the direction of travel and should help placate the understandable frustration.
The guy going to Kings Cross may get what he wants; he's obviously buying time if he has already made his way there.
 

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