Caledonian Sleeper

Drumtochty

Member
Joined
5 Dec 2016
Messages
24
Question on the Sleeper ETH.

What ETH voltage was the old stock and was it AC or DC?

What is the ETH voltage of the 6 off 73's after change over to the new stock and is it AC or DC?

The 92's are reported as having an ETH voltage of 1,500 Volts for the new stock is that AC or DC.

Thanks!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,580
Question on the Sleeper ETH.

What ETH voltage was the old stock and was it AC or DC?

What is the ETH voltage of the 6 off 73's after change over to the new stock and is it AC or DC?

The 92's are reported as having an ETH voltage of 1,500 Volts for the new stock is that AC or DC.

Thanks!
The Class 92s supplied ETS to the old stock at ~900V and to the new stock at 1500V. Both these supplies came from their own AC windings on the transformer at the relevant voltages. The 92s were originally built with 1500V ETS for the power-hungry Nightstar (European sleeper) stock, hence the 900V was in effect a mod so the 92s could provide ETS to 'classic' stock.

The Class 73/9s ETS did not change between the old and new stock - it's remained at ~900V. This is due to the 73/9s only needing to provide ETS for max 8 coaches (vs the 92s which have to provide hotel power to 16 coaches).
 
Last edited:

Drumtochty

Member
Joined
5 Dec 2016
Messages
24
The Class 92s supplied ETS to the old stock at ~900V and to the new stock at 1500V. Both these supplies came from their own AC windings on the transformer at the relevant voltages. The 92s were originally built with 1500V ETS for the power-hungry Nightstar (European sleeper) stock, hence the 900V was in effect a mod so the 92s could provide ETS to 'classic' stock.

The Class 73/9s ETS did not change between the old and new stock - it's remained at ~900V. This is due to the 73/9s only needing to provide ETS for max 8 coaches (vs the 92s which have to provide hotel power to 16 coaches).
Thankyou TimboM.

I thought you advised that the 73/9s would also need a jumper changed when powering the new stock but that could be done at the local Depot rather than going back to Brush!
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,580
I thought you advised that the 73/9s would also need a jumper changed when powering the new stock but that could be done at the local Depot rather than going back to Brush!
The jumpers were changed on both 73/9s and 92s as they need to be longer for the Mk5s due to the Dellners creating a bigger gap between loco and first coach. The Mk5 jumpers on the 92s also have an additional pin in them to prevent inadvertent attachment of the 1500V supply to classic (900V) stock. The old jumpers would still work with Mk5s - just at risk of getting ripped out on tight radius curves.

The 92 conversion from 900V to 1500V was an "at depot" job completed within the space of a few hours.
 

Bassman

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
79
Medium to long term
Tax air travel .. commeasurate with carbon footprint.
Market sleeper trains as efficient eco friendly travel
Augment sleeper with couchette coaches at fair competitive price.
Alter timetables for simpler direct running, between cities using overnight more effectively.
 

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
9,333
Medium to long term
Tax air travel .. commeasurate with carbon footprint.
Market sleeper trains as efficient eco friendly travel
Augment sleeper with couchette coaches at fair competitive price.
Alter timetables for simpler direct running, between cities using overnight more effectively.
I would like to see berths like the new OBB berths that are pods as a intermediate between seats and a traditional berth.

Atm the high fares put me off using it which is why I prefer to fly to/from Scotland, make it cheaper and not priced like a 5 star hotel.
 

35B

Member
Joined
19 Dec 2011
Messages
377
I would like to see berths like the new OBB berths that are pods as a intermediate between seats and a traditional berth.

Atm the high fares put me off using it which is why I prefer to fly to/from Scotland, make it cheaper and not priced like a 5 star hotel.
It's not priced like a 5 star hotel. At £205 for my last journey, that was equivalent to about £100 for a hotel, which is significantly less than I'd have to pay in central London.
 

Murray J

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2019
Messages
354
Location
East Grinstead
not sure if this has been mentioned before but is the caledonian sleeper liveried 47, 47727, regularly used on the CS services?
Because I can hardly find any footage of it operating CS services, one or two videos and that's it.
 

Speed43125

Member
Joined
20 Jul 2019
Messages
371
not sure if this has been mentioned before but is the caledonian sleeper liveried 47, 47727, regularly used on the CS services?
Because I can hardly find any footage of it operating CS services, one or two videos and that's it.
Couplers are no longer compatible for a start, and if a extra diesel is needed for the inverness section, they just do 66 +73 (73 acting as translator vehicle if dead) instead of 73+73.
 

Far north 37

Established Member
Joined
13 Apr 2011
Messages
1,879
not sure if this has been mentioned before but is the caledonian sleeper liveried 47, 47727, regularly used on the CS services?
Because I can hardly find any footage of it operating CS services, one or two videos and that's it.
It worked on the inverness portion at the start of november coupled to one of the class 73s but is very rarely used on any sleeper services.
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,580
Ok thanks, wonder why it's in CS livery then, because most photos I can find of it it seems to be operating charters.
In a nutshell, there were plans, but as often happens in life (and not least on the railway) plans change. The longer story:

Once upon a time...

GBRf bought Colas 3x Class 47s primarily to be used in their Rail Services division to work stock moves (including charters and railtours) - and in particular to service a Bombardier contract GB had just won. Prior to that, GB had already hired in two of them - 47739 and 47749 - from Colas to support Sleeper operations in Scotland (primarily ECS moves and the odd Class 1 working).

After the acquisition, plan was to use 47727 (which was undergoing full overhaul) on the sleeper support operations for the last year or so of the Mk3s/Mk2s whilst 739 and 749 had overhauls, repaints and mods to haul the Bombardier units. 727 would then move on to the stock moves work in due course.

However, the overhaul took somewhat longer than expected and then shortly after 727 finally arrived (belatedly) in Scotland and received its full CS adornments it suffered a fairly significant failure on a GB Charity Railtour in August 2018. As it needed some significant work, it ended up remaining at Leicester for many months to have its repairs and mods to work the Bombardier stock moves.

It only managed about c.7 miles on ECS moves to/from Polmadie with the Mk3/Mk2s after it obtained the full CS livery (it had also work the Aberdeen portion and some Carstairs portions prior to that whilst still without the logos/name). Ironically, it's worked Class 1 Sleepers in its full regalia since the Mk5s came out - piloting 73971 on 1S25/1M16 on Fri 8 Nov as noted above.

In recent weeks its mostly been used on stock moves, including 314, 317, HST, Royal Scotsman and Class 92 drags.

It is not compatible with Mk5s, so can only be used in tandem with a 73/9 as it was in November. 66s are a more favoured option to pilot 73/9s, though, as they can multi with 73/9s whereas the 47s cannot. 66s are also somewhat more reliable!
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
3,846
Location
Wittersham Kent
I would like to see berths like the new OBB berths that are pods as a intermediate between seats and a traditional berth.

Atm the high fares put me off using it which is why I prefer to fly to/from Scotland, make it cheaper and not priced like a 5 star hotel.
The sleeper won't be even remotely Eco friendly heavily tax it to drive people on to much more Eco Megabuses.
 

Speed43125

Member
Joined
20 Jul 2019
Messages
371
The sleeper won't be even remotely Eco friendly heavily tax it to drive people on to much more Eco Megabuses.
Sleeper trains are actually very very eco friendly, traditionally, they'd literally be a couple of carriages stuck on the back of mail train which would be running anyway, giving you an extremely tiny footprint.
But running predominantly electric trains at night when power is all generated from renewable sources at night is very good for the environment. A bus is nowhere near as good for providing similar service or for a service even remotely as good in terms of GHG emissions.
 

BowesRanger

Member
Joined
16 Jul 2018
Messages
100
Well this is just a shambles isnt it.

On the train from Inverness, in club rooms. Had to move rooms because water leaking through roof, now finally able to get at seat in the club lounge... And they've run out of food. Nothing left.

An absolute **** show.

Will i be able to get compensation for this? Apparently they only had 20 meals on the train.
 

SteveM70

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2018
Messages
479
Well this is just a shambles isnt it.

On the train from Inverness, in club rooms. Had to move rooms because water leaking through roof, now finally able to get at seat in the club lounge... And they've run out of food. Nothing left.

An absolute **** show.

Will i be able to get compensation for this? Apparently they only had 20 meals on the train.
Is there an option to pre-book food via their website? I know that not everyone will know for sure what their dining plans will be, but many will do and at least then they could make sure they had the right food for them plus an estimate for the remaining passengers
 

Steve Harris

Member
Joined
11 Dec 2016
Messages
423
Location
ECML
Is there an option to pre-book food via their website? I know that not everyone will know for sure what their dining plans will be, but many will do and at least then they could make sure they had the right food for them plus an estimate for the remaining passengers
But that's being organised. Something (by what's been said in this thread) that CS don't seem to be good at.
 

Mag_seven

Established Member
Associate Staff
General Discussion
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
6,219
Location
here to eternity

Murray J

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2019
Messages
354
Location
East Grinstead
In a nutshell, there were plans, but as often happens in life (and not least on the railway) plans change. The longer story:

Once upon a time...

GBRf bought Colas 3x Class 47s primarily to be used in their Rail Services division to work stock moves (including charters and railtours) - and in particular to service a Bombardier contract GB had just won. Prior to that, GB had already hired in two of them - 47739 and 47749 - from Colas to support Sleeper operations in Scotland (primarily ECS moves and the odd Class 1 working).

After the acquisition, plan was to use 47727 (which was undergoing full overhaul) on the sleeper support operations for the last year or so of the Mk3s/Mk2s whilst 739 and 749 had overhauls, repaints and mods to haul the Bombardier units. 727 would then move on to the stock moves work in due course.

However, the overhaul took somewhat longer than expected and then shortly after 727 finally arrived (belatedly) in Scotland and received its full CS adornments it suffered a fairly significant failure on a GB Charity Railtour in August 2018. As it needed some significant work, it ended up remaining at Leicester for many months to have its repairs and mods to work the Bombardier stock moves.

It only managed about c.7 miles on ECS moves to/from Polmadie with the Mk3/Mk2s after it obtained the full CS livery (it had also work the Aberdeen portion and some Carstairs portions prior to that whilst still without the logos/name). Ironically, it's worked Class 1 Sleepers in its full regalia since the Mk5s came out - piloting 73971 on 1S25/1M16 on Fri 8 Nov as noted above.

In recent weeks its mostly been used on stock moves, including 314, 317, HST, Royal Scotsman and Class 92 drags.

It is not compatible with Mk5s, so can only be used in tandem with a 73/9 as it was in November. 66s are a more favoured option to pilot 73/9s, though, as they can multi with 73/9s whereas the 47s cannot. 66s are also somewhat more reliable!
Ok thanks for clarifying and giving a brief history of 47s at GBRF!
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,580
If you read on down the article, it says that the incident happened in November. Doesn't make it any better, of course, but you do have to ask why it's taken the better part of 2 months to appear... :rolleyes:
And if you read further on:

She had originally planned to book a seat, but was upgraded to a room when she told booking staff she was travelling with a guide dog.

Ms Burke was further upgraded to an accessible room with double bed when her friend said as they boarded that the twin room they had been allocated was too small for the three of them.
So appears that having originally planned to travel in the seats they ended up with two berths (one an accessible double) all free of charge I’m assuming.
 

Essexman

Member
Joined
15 Mar 2011
Messages
1,102
As of yesterday the Flexipass has gone up from £1550 to £1650 - 6.45%.
CS website says that complimentary upgrades to club berths will be made 'for a few months' (not sure whether that few months was from the new trains being fully introduced) after which the Flexipass will only cover 'classic' berths.
 

JohnMcL7

Member
Joined
18 Apr 2018
Messages
364
It is not compatible with Mk5s, so can only be used in tandem with a 73/9 as it was in November. 66s are a more favoured option to pilot 73/9s, though, as they can multi with 73/9s whereas the 47s cannot. 66s are also somewhat more reliable!
How does the 47 and 73 work from a functional point of view?
 

Bassman

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
79
And if you read further on:

So appears that having originally planned to travel in the seats they ended up with two berths (one an accessible double) all free of charge I’m assuming.
Yes i read that
Doesn't alter the fact that the reputation suffers and ripples on! The close availability of toilets is very important, particularly for those with special needs.
And so I would expect mitigation by staff on the train to offer berths and from Serco for compensation. However It does not paper over the impact of lack of basic conditions of travel and continuing, distrust in the service. Has the problem been solved and now guaranteed working toilet facilities?
 

Top