Caledonian Sleeper

[185143]

You would only have to do that if you were going to Fort William AND you were in the seats (the sleeping coaches run through from Euston to Fort William).


The order should be:
1-7 Inverness (5 sleepers + club car + seats)
8-9 Fort William (2 sleepers only)
10-14 Aberdeen (3 sleepers + club car + seats)

It's a diffferent order from how it used to be I believe, so I'm not sure of the shunting at Edinburgh any more.

It used to be Aberdeen at the front, FW in the middle and Inverness at the back heading South.

It would be interesting to know roughly how many passengers join at Crewe on this random evening.

RTT showing to Inverness and Aberdeen tonight but no train formation as yet - Friday night formation shows sleepers on the front looks like for Inverness as the rear sleepers include two accessible sleepers which would be one each for Fort William and Aberdeen.

Around 12 of us waiting and I think a couple more in the waiting room.

 

[Bill57p9]

The consist is usually Inverness, Fort William, Aberdeen northbound and Inverness, Aberdeen, Fort William southbound.
The reason for the Inverness portion always being up front is that the Highlander and Lowlander swap over in London during the day. The Lowlander combines & splits at Carstairs with the Glasgow portion (which was/will become Aberdeen/Fort William, hence 2 accessible coaches) at the front both ways, which is easier for the Carstairs shunt: Southbound the Edinburgh portion runs through the station and into the Down Passing Loop. After the Glasgow portion arrives the Edinburgh portion is then pushed onto the rear before the locomotive is detached.

The Edinburgh portion is busier than Glasgow, hence the portion with slightly fewer berths, sorry rooms, due to the second accessible coach is sent to Glasgow.

The seated coach then the club car within each portion is almost if not always at the London end on the WCML to allow the shunt of the Fort William portion work in Edinburgh. I did detail the exact sequence somewhere distantly upthread.

 

[185143]

Had a pretty good night on here. Boarded slightly late at Crewe, just after midnight. Boozing is allowed in the seated coach again so I took full advantage and sampled a couple of single malts. Supped my own supply too! Was asleep by Carlisle and woke up in the platform at Kingussie. Greatly enjoyed the trip! Though I suspect I'll be snoring on the 158 back from Wick later...

 

[pitdiver]

When my wife and i travelled up to Fort William a couple of years back in the old stock our Fort William sleeper was the front coach.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Around 12 of us waiting and I think a couple more in the waiting room.

Thanks for that info., there was some discussion a few weeks ago re numbers using Crewe (and Preston). Although it is some years since i used the sleeper I think that is the sort of number that was typical back then.

Had a pretty good night on here. Boarded slightly late at Crewe, just after midnight. Boozing is allowed in the seated coach again so I took full advantage and sampled a couple of single malts. Supped my own supply too! Was asleep by Carlisle and woke up in the platform at Kingussie. Greatly enjoyed the trip! Though I suspect I'll be snoring on the 158 back from Wick later...

Enjoy the trip to Wick (and back), then what?

 

[Blindtraveler]

When was the extremely sensible decision to allow booze in the seats made? I don't recall reading it on here and they've been a bit useless on social media of late

 

[norbitonflyer]

The consist is usually Inverness, Fort William, Aberdeen northbound and Inverness, Aberdeen, Fort William southbound.
The reason for the Inverness portion always being up front is that the Highlander and Lowlander swap over in London during the day. The Lowlander combines & splits at Carstairs with the Glasgow portion (which was/will become Aberdeen/Fort William, hence 2 accessible coaches) at the front both ways, which is easier for the Carstairs shunt: Southbound the Edinburgh portion runs through the station and into the Down Passing Loop. After the Glasgow portion arrives the Edinburgh portion is then pushed onto the rear before the locomotive is detached.

The Edinburgh portion is busier than Glasgow, hence the portion with slightly fewer berths, sorry rooms, due to the second accessible coach is sent to Glasgow.

The seated coach then the club car within each portion is almost if not always at the London end on the WCML to allow the shunt of the Fort William portion work in Edinburgh. I did detail the exact sequence somewhere distantly upthread.

When my wife and i travelled up to Fort William a couple of years back in the old stock our Fort William sleeper was the front coach.

This was my experience too - Fort William at the front northbound, middle southbound. It seems that with the new stock the rostering is changed so that different formations can be used for Edinburgh/Inverness and for Glasgow/Fort William/Inverness.

As I understood it, the older formations were run so that each half-train got to Inverness (where heavy maintenance was done) every eighth day (trains didn't run Saturday nights, so in practice nine or ten days). This had the side effect of meaning that trains TO Inverness were most likely to have minor faults (I was on one where one carriage was out of use because it had no lights - fortunately at a quiet time of year when everyone couild be accommodated in the remaining carriages, whereas trains FROM Inverness were in pristine condition.

The rooter went something like this (seated coaches always at south (London) end:
Up Inverness - rear
Down Glasgow - front
Up Edinburgh - rear
Down Aberdeen/FW - front
Up Aberdeen/FW - front
Down Edinburgh - rear
Up Glasgow - front
Down Inverness - rear

Note that whatever arrived at London on the front had to leave on the rear because the 16-car rakes were not divided at Wembley. The clever bit was the swapping of Glasgow and Edinburgh portions during the day in Scotland: easily achieved because both were serviced at Polmadie.

 

[Falcon1200]

Logically the Sleeper stock should be maintained at Wembley, where two full trains stable every night, rather than Inverness with just half a train, but of course the service is now very much a Scottish enterprise....

 

[najaB]

Logically the Sleeper stock should be maintained at Wembley, where two full trains stable every night, rather than Inverness with just half a train, but of course the service is now very much a Scottish enterprise....

I didn't think sleeper trains stabled overnight.

I agree that, if you were setting CS up from scratch, it might make sense to base it out of either Polmadie or Wembley, but it wasn't created from scratch. They took over an existing operation based out of Inverness with the facilities and staff based there. The sums likely didn't add up for CS to hire people on London wages and build/lease facilities at Wembley.

 

[JonathanH]

Logically the Sleeper stock should be maintained at Wembley, where two full trains stable every night, rather than Inverness with just half a train, but of course the service is now very much a Scottish enterprise....

It is maintained at Polmadie now, not Inverness. A full train reaches Polmadie each day.

 

[Falcon1200]

It is maintained at Polmadie now, not Inverness.

Thanks. A bit more sensible than Inverness, but still fewer vehicles than Wembley !

 

[najaB]

It is maintained at Polmadie now, not Inverness. A full train reaches Polmadie each day.

Ah, okay. When did it change from Polmadie doing the "light stuff" and Inverness the heavy work? Was it with the new stock?

 

[JonathanH]

Ah, okay. When did it change from Polmadie doing the "light stuff" and Inverness the heavy work? Was it with the new stock?

It changed from the moment Caledonian Sleeper took over as a separate franchise in April 2015.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/serco-for-sleeper.100803/page-24#post-2096980

 

[Leisurefirst]

A couple of things...
Social distancing appears to have been removed from the seated coach.
I saw a tweet from CS replying to another matter to the effect that they have been busy changing "thousands" of reservations because of this.
Where, I wonder does that leave my two seat reservations in the Summer which had to be either side of the aisle (one by each window) with an empty seat in between.
I did ask at the time of booking if this could be overridden to be seated together and was told no.
I checked in "my account" and nothing has changed.
Will the empty seat be sold to somebody else and we negotiate a swop ourselves or will we moved together anyway?
Secondly, our return journey (seated with 2T discount) has just leapt from £72odd to £99 in a matter of days. (I hadn't booked yet for various reasons).
This isn't because the cheaper tickets have booked AFAIK as the same fare apies to just about any other date I choose too and the tickets are now "flexible" with no "fixed" option.
Tried to get an explanation for both of these from CS Twitter via DM to no avail.
Anybody in the know please? Cheers.

 

[najaB]

Will the empty seat be sold to somebody else and we negotiate a swop ourselves or will we moved together anyway?

I suspect that most people would jump at the option of the single seat, if offered it on the day.

 

[185143]

I suspect that most people would jump at the option of the single seat, if offered it on the day.

Night!

 

[Leisurefirst]

I suspect that most people would jump at the option of the single seat, if offered it on the day.

True!
It would be nice to be informed what has happened though seeing as they have been changing "thousands" (?) of seats.

 

[najaB]

Night!

I tip my hat to your pedantry.

 

[greyman42]

When was the extremely sensible decision to allow booze in the seats made? I don't recall reading it on here and they've been a bit useless on social media of late

Was it ever enforced? From my experiences LNER never bothered with enforcing it.

 

[najaB]

Was it ever enforced?

From reports up-thread, yes. You could buy to take to a berth, but not to the seats.

 

[ajrm]

Thanks. A bit more sensible than Inverness, but still fewer vehicles than Wembley !

The reason that Inverness began to be used for servicing was that BR had built a modern carriage shed there in the early 1980s (I read somewhere that it was a sweetener as part of the deal which introduced RETB) which of course was redundant within a couple of years following Sprinterisation. So when ICWC refused to take on the sleepers and ScotRail got landed with them it seemed an obvious use for an under-used asset.

 

[GW43125]

Off to Edinburgh tonight, just had the following text:

Caledonian Sleeper Service Update. We are very sorry to tell you that due unavoidable resource shortage we have had to reduce our offering in our Club Car this evening. Whilst we are not able to offer evening meals, we will be serving our Room Service drinks and snack menu to Caledonian Double and Club guests.

To book a table for the Club Car, please speak to our team when you check in who will advise of availability. We will of course continue to serve room service and there is a dedicated menu in the room.

In the morning for Caledonian Double and Club guests wishing to join us for breakfast in the Club Car, we will be offering our Breakfast Room Service Menu. Please complete the Room Service Card to indicate your preferred location for breakfast. Our Classic guests Will be able to purchase breakfast items from the room service menu which will be served to the room.

We look forward to welcoming you on-board this evening and please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused by the reduction to our catering service.

I take it we can still sit in the buffet car with a drink tonight?

Still, not ideal to suddenly learn of this now.

 

[MrS99]

I have just booked my first ever Sleeper ticket... a seat with priv discount. I definitely can't grumble at the price of my journey from Preston to Perth on Monday 14th of this month, leaving at 0020 arriving at approx 0540. I will be seated in H-11B, any ideas of where this will be? I will update accordingly

 

[185143]

I have just booked my first ever Sleeper ticket... a seat with priv discount. I definitely can't grumble at the price of my journey from Preston to Perth on Monday 14th of this month, leaving at 0020 arriving at approx 0540. I will be seated in H-11B, any ideas of where this will be? I will update accordingly

Pretty sure that's the "middle" seat in the row that's by the wheelchair space.

Probably the last seat I'd choose if I'm honest!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pretty sure that's the "middle" seat in the row that's by the wheelchair space.

Probably the last seat I'd choose if I'm honest!

However judging by the posts of them having opened up the B "column" of seats (the numbering is like a plane, with row numbers and A/B/C) there's more than a slight chance you'll be able to swap with the person in one of the single seats to enable a couple to sit together as was not previously allowed.

 

[JonathanH]

Pretty sure that's the "middle" seat in the row that's by the wheelchair space.

Probably the last seat I'd choose if I'm honest!

No, row 11 is at the other end of the carriage, against the bulkhead. Table seat. In the middle, as you say.

 

[alistairlees]

A couple of things...
Social distancing appears to have been removed from the seated coach.
I saw a tweet from CS replying to another matter to the effect that they have been busy changing "thousands" of reservations because of this.
Where, I wonder does that leave my two seat reservations in the Summer which had to be either side of the aisle (one by each window) with an empty seat in between.
I did ask at the time of booking if this could be overridden to be seated together and was told no.
I checked in "my account" and nothing has changed.
Will the empty seat be sold to somebody else and we negotiate a swop ourselves or will we moved together anyway?
Secondly, our return journey (seated with 2T discount) has just leapt from £72odd to £99 in a matter of days. (I hadn't booked yet for various reasons).
This isn't because the cheaper tickets have booked AFAIK as the same fare apies to just about any other date I choose too and the tickets are now "flexible" with no "fixed" option.
Tried to get an explanation for both of these from CS Twitter via DM to no avail.
Anybody in the know please? Cheers.

Guest reservations that are split and are in "A" and "C", because "B" was blocked out during Covid, are being moved so they are in "B" and "C", i.e. seated together, where possible. You don't need to do anything for this. Your ticket will still have the wrong details on it, but hopefully other systems will be updated shortly.

Yes, it is "thousands".

Here's a tweet from a couple of years ago showing the layout: https://twitter.com/calsleeper/status/1122948332157120514?lang=es

 

[MrS99]

However judging by the posts of them having opened up the B "column" of seats (the numbering is like a plane, with row numbers and A/B/C) there's more than a slight chance you'll be able to swap with the person in one of the single seats to enable a couple to sit together as was not previously allowed.

It was one of the last seats I gather. I booked this at Preston ticket office this evening around 1945. I was extremely disappointed when I walked into Picadilly booking office yesterday evening and asked for the same booking to be be looked up and down. The member of staff at the counter then threw her arms on her desk and shouted 'I can't do this', asked around other members of staff who all whispered to one another, only to be told I'd have to phone Scotrail.

It was just pot luck I asked again at Preston this evening... Glad I did!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was one of the last seats I gather. I booked this at Preston ticket office this evening around 1945. I was extremely disappointed when I walked into Picadilly booking office yesterday evening and asked for the same booking to be be looked up and down. The member of staff at the counter then threw her arms on her desk and shouted 'I can't do this', asked around other members of staff who all whispered to one another, only to be told I'd have to phone Scotrail.

It was just pot luck I asked again at Preston this evening... Glad I did!

Crikey, Avanti really are scraping the barrel, aren't they? For a seat, it's the same as reserving any other seat.

 

[pitdiver]

As far as I was aware you couldn't book Priv Discounted seats on the sleeper on berths. How would Scotrail know that you were entitled to Priv Discount over the phone?