Caledonian Sleeper

[JonathanH]

Was there a fundamental reason the Southbound sleepers couldn’t have run given services appeared to have resumed to & from Euston before their booked arrival time ?

I think there is also the problem created by the intrinsic linking of the driver rosters between the northbound and southbound sleepers - eg the drivers would have had no way to get to the right place to actually work the trains through England to London.

 

[Mainliner]

Although I am glad I got to at least try it, as looking at all the strikes and cancellations of late it seems very sporadic.

As an occasional keen user of the old Sleeper, I had been looking forward to trying the new one.

However, with a poorer, noisier ride, and all the ongoing issues, at a much higher cost, I will not be risking the erratic (in several ways) experience.

Very disappointing, but I’ll just take a daytime train, probably on the previous day, and stay overnight, when I need to be at the destination early the next morning.

I hope more thought and care goes into the design and operation of the planned new European sleepers.

 

[najaB]

But not reopening the Club Car, or not announcing that there would be no room service in advance - yes, I do believe there is some sway held here by the team delivering the service.

If management* says the Club Car is closed, then it's closed. There wouldn't be anything to serve any way if it's not been ordered and loaded.

*I'd be surprised if they aren't getting their direction from Transport Scotland.

 

[Journeyman]

If management* says the Club Car is closed, then it's closed. There wouldn't be anything to serve any way if it's not been ordered and loaded.

*I'd be surprised if they aren't getting their direction from Transport Scotland.

Exactly, hence total lack of catering on any ScotRail services. That wasn't fun when I got stuck for three and half hours on my way home from Dalwhinnie yesterday.

 

[fgwrich]

If management* says the Club Car is closed, then it's closed. There wouldn't be anything to serve any way if it's not been ordered and loaded.

*I'd be surprised if they aren't getting their direction from Transport Scotland.

With restrictions shortly being lifted in Scotland, do we think we will see both the lounge car re-opening on the Sleeper and First Class / Catering returning to the I7Cs soon?

 

[31160]

Southbound lowland sleepers cancelled tonight, CS quoting due to disruption last night and staff sickness, sleeper will be parked in Edinburgh as a hotel early train south in the morning

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wonder how long ago this decision was made? I notice they've only just announced it on Facebook at about 7:20. I would hope that the decision to bin the lowland was made much earlier in the afternoon and they're social media announcement comes only after they have tried and failed to contact all booked passengers. Glad they have parked it up for hotel room service in Waverley tonight as as the early train South really is very early and I wouldn't be so happy having to get up at that time if I had intended to wake up in London when planning my trip

 

[MrEd]

Cancellations, landslips, flooding - of course. But not reopening the Club Car, or not announcing that there would be no room service in advance - yes, I do believe there is some sway held here by the team delivering the service.

The opening (or not) of the lounge car or whatever it’s called these days will be determined by government guidance given by Transport Scotland to the management of CS (as with catering on Scotrail); frontline staff have zero choice on the matter. CS management will have formulated a policy based on the current government guidance. I have a feeling that the Scottish government would discourage the opening of the lounge car on the ground that it causes needless close interaction between staff and passengers (when it‘s perfectly possible to leave room service snacks outside berth doors), and CS management would probably follow this advice. Remember that if staff test positive for Covid, the cancellation of the train may result - this is why minimising contact is key.

With restrictions shortly being lifted in Scotland, do we think we will see both the lounge car re-opening on the Sleeper and First Class / Catering returning to the I7Cs soon?

I don’t think so, as Scottish level 0 still requires physical distancing in indoor hospitality venues (and the lounge car would need to be treated as such). Its capacity would still be vastly reduced, to the extent that it would not be worth opening, and CS (like Scotrail) probably also want to minimise contact between staff and passengers for as long as Covid remains an issue. Room service seems to be the reasonable compromise solution that CS have developed - better than last summer when there was no catering in the evenings at all.

 

[Bill57p9]

Northbound lowlander is showing as cancelled (at the request of the train operator) too, which isn't a surprise given the southbound is cancelled.

The Highlander appears to be making an effort: the northbound stock is at Euston and the southbound Fort William has departed. The southbound Aberdeen is again ECS "due to a fire".

Not exactly "the journey of a night-time" customers, sorry, guests, had in mind.

 

[6Z09]

Did anyone travel on Monday night?
Would be very interesting to hear how the alternative arrangements worked!
Was it the"Journey of a night time" or more Nightmare @ five am?

 

[Bill57p9]

Did anyone travel on Monday night?
Would be very interesting to hear how the alternative arrangements worked!
Was it the"Journey of a night time" or more Nightmare @ five am?

On the upside, nice to see the Inverness to Edinburgh sleeper back after an absence of 32(?) years

 

[Butts]

The opening (or not) of the lounge car or whatever it’s called these days will be determined by government guidance given by Transport Scotland to the management of CS (as with catering on Scotrail); frontline staff have zero choice on the matter. CS management will have formulated a policy based on the current government guidance. I have a feeling that the Scottish government would discourage the opening of the lounge car on the ground that it causes needless close interaction between staff and passengers (when it‘s perfectly possible to leave room service snacks outside berth doors), and CS management would probably follow this advice. Remember that if staff test positive for Covid, the cancellation of the train may result - this is why minimising contact is key.


I don’t think so, as Scottish level 0 still requires physical distancing in indoor hospitality venues (and the lounge car would need to be treated as such). Its capacity would still be vastly reduced, to the extent that it would not be worth opening, and CS (like Scotrail) probably also want to minimise contact between staff and passengers for as long as Covid remains an issue. Room service seems to be the reasonable compromise solution that CS have developed - better than last summer when there was no catering in the evenings at all.

This is absolute hokum.

Are Avanti and LNER serving refreshments to passengers in 1st Class in Scotland - Answer Yes in the case of Avanti going back to April.

I haven't heard anyone from the Scottish Government complaining about this or Malt Whisky being consumed above their sky's or the fact the server is operating in a more confined environment than a Club Car ? -namely Club Europe !!

 

[Sleepy]

This is absolute hokum.

Are Avanti and LNER serving refreshments to passengers in 1st Class in Scotland - Answer Yes in the case of Avanti going back to April.

I haven't heard anyone from the Scottish Government complaining about this or Malt Whisky being consumed above their sky's or the fact the server is operating in a more confined environment than a Club Car ? -namely Club Europe !!

With the sleeper the stewards are a must have in same way as the guard or drivers, if they end up positive / isolating the train is cancelled. If the daytime train catering staff are unavailable the train will still run regardless.

 

[MrEd]

This is absolute hokum.

Are Avanti and LNER serving refreshments to passengers in 1st Class in Scotland - Answer Yes in the case of Avanti going back to April.

I haven't heard anyone from the Scottish Government complaining about this or Malt Whisky being consumed above their sky's or the fact the server is operating in a more confined environment than a Club Car ? -namely Club Europe !!

The Scottish Government would have no reason to complain about aviation as they have no jurisdiction over it so cannot legislate either way. What happens on an international flight is no business of the Scottish Government under the current devolution settlement.

With the sleeper the stewards are a must have in same way as the guard or drivers, if they end up positive / isolating the train is cancelled. If the daytime train catering staff are unavailable the train will still run regardless.

This is a good point.

 

[williamn]

As an occasional keen user of the old Sleeper, I had been looking forward to trying the new one.

However, with a poorer, noisier ride, and all the ongoing issues, at a much higher cost, I will not be risking the erratic (in several ways) experience.

Very disappointing, but I’ll just take a daytime train, probably on the previous day, and stay overnight, when I need to be at the destination early the next morning.

I hope more thought and care goes into the design and operation of the planned new European sleepers.

I'd urge you to try it and make your own mind up. I was prepared to be hugely disappointed after reading everything here, but in fact its generally ok to good, aside from a few niggles.

 

[Journeyman]

I'd urge you to try it and make your own mind up. I was prepared to be hugely disappointed after reading everything here, but in fact its generally ok to good, aside from a few niggles.

There's an awful lot of people who hate the new sleeper stock on principle because it's not Mark 3s, it's built by CAF and is simply new.

I've only travelled in the seats between Edinburgh and Fort William so far, but I enjoyed that immensely.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The new seats are a vast improvement on the old ones and get such a resounding thumbs up from me that I am now questioning why I put up with the standard of the old ones for as long as I did and kept using them despite all the issues they had. To all those who say that travelling on the seats on the sleeper is no different to an overnight coach then I'm sorry but I would totally disagree. The since themselves are comfortable and even a fat so like me can get comfy and a decent amount of kip. Ok so perhaps the ride quality isn't as good as it could be but still perfectly acceptable. Your own power outlet and and decent amount of personal space, good luggage capacity and unlike any other night coach there's a lovely little button you can press and a nice steward or stewardess will bring you a hot beverage and biscuits or a wee dram or several. I am looking forward to a little treat in the autumn, assuming we're not all back in lockdown by then of a ride from London to Inverness in a club room and shall doubtless give it my critique afterwards. Perhaps somewhat reassuringly I'm booked into a Premier Inn in Inverness the following night just in case the sleep quality is less than great

 

[roversfan2001]

I spent a night in the seats last Sunday and a night in a Classic room on Friday so I can finally give my opinion on the service!

The seats themselves are nice enough but the ride quality was quite poor and very jittery. The lights are very, very bright too; I don’t know if they normally dim them or not but they should do if they don’t.

The bed on the other hand was fantastic. A little rough just after departure (Inverness-Euston, so on the Highland line) but other than that it was great. The bed and bedding was second to none, the meal (obviously microwaved) was really nice too. The price is a little bit steep so I’m not in a rush to do it again but it was a nice experience.

 

[Journeyman]

I'd say the ride isn't worse than Mark 3s, it's just different.

I've always found the ride of the Mark 3 to be a bit too soft and wobbly for my liking, and it feels rather too much like being on a boat. The new stock is somewhat stiffer and firmer, but my body seems to cope rather better than that. Mark 3s make me a bit queasy.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Whereas for me the soft swampy quality of the Mark 3 is a definite upside especially if trying to sleep

 

[6Z09]

Southbound lowland sleepers cancelled tonight, CS quoting due to disruption last night and staff sickness, sleeper will be parked in Edinburgh as a hotel early train south in the morning

"Disruption from last night "is being a wee bit economical with the facts .
All trains remained in place last night, so what disruption?

 

[andbrads]

Deleted

The opening (or not) of the lounge car or whatever it’s called these days will be determined by government guidance given by Transport Scotland to the management of CS (as with catering on Scotrail); frontline staff have zero choice on the matter. CS management will have formulated a policy based on the current government guidance. I have a feeling that the Scottish government would discourage the opening of the lounge car on the ground that it causes needless close interaction between staff and passengers (when it‘s perfectly possible to leave room service snacks outside berth doors), and CS management would probably follow this advice. Remember that if staff test positive for Covid, the cancellation of the train may result - this is why minimising contact is key.


I don’t think so, as Scottish level 0 still requires physical distancing in indoor hospitality venues (and the lounge car would need to be treated as such). Its capacity would still be vastly reduced, to the extent that it would not be worth opening, and CS (like Scotrail) probably also want to minimise contact between staff and passengers for as long as Covid remains an issue. Room service seems to be the reasonable compromise solution that CS have developed - better than last summer when there was no catering in the evenings at all.

Does the Scottish legislation carve out a special niche for service of food on trains? I don’t see how the physical distancing requirement should be any different to a small café which, as we all know, have deemed it ‘worth it’ to open their doors for some time now.

If there is an question of economics for the Club Car, then at least CS should trial increasing the prices rather than lazily giving up the service because it’s all too much of a trial for them. It’s not like this is a 2 hour journey with food and drink not really needed, with the ECML diversion this was 13 hours with only a bacon roll or granola in the morning.

 

[John Bishop]

I spent a night in the seats last Sunday and a night in a Classic room on Friday so I can finally give my opinion on the service!

The seats themselves are nice enough but the ride quality was quite poor and very jittery. The lights are very, very bright too; I don’t know if they normally dim them or not but they should do if they don’t.

The bed on the other hand was fantastic. A little rough just after departure (Inverness-Euston, so on the Highland line) but other than that it was great. The bed and bedding was second to none, the meal (obviously microwaved) was really nice too. The price is a little bit steep so I’m not in a rush to do it again but it was a nice experience.

Which berth number were you in?
From personal experience, anywhere near the bogies is not great ride wise. Nearer the middle of the carriage is somewhat better.

 

[AberdeenBill]

I'd urge you to try it and make your own mind up. I was prepared to be hugely disappointed after reading everything here, but in fact its generally ok to good, aside from a few niggles.

When i did my first trip i was a bit underwhelmed. Maybe it was a bit of nostalgia for the Mark 3s but principally i think that i expected more, given the promotion and hype from CS and the image of the hotel on wheels thing. Now that i have done a few i have got used to it and apart from the annoying things like lack of shelves etc i am now generally very happy with it, providing the plumbing, heating etc works ok in my room.

 

[andbrads]

Whereas for me the soft swampy quality of the Mark 3 is a definite upside especially if trying to sleep

Agree. Even in a cabin in the middle of the coach, the movements and feeling was all very taut, sudden and rattly. I felt like I was trying to sleep on the Northern Line

 

[MrEd]

Deleted



Does the Scottish legislation carve out a special niche for service of food on trains? I don’t see how the physical distancing requirement should be any different to a small café which, as we all know, have deemed it ‘worth it’ to open their doors for some time now.

If there is an question of economics for the Club Car, then at least CS should trial increasing the prices rather than lazily giving up the service because it’s all too much of a trial for them. It’s not like this is a 2 hour journey with food and drink not really needed, with the ECML diversion this was 13 hours with only a bacon roll or granola in the morning.

Not really, but a point which has been raised earlier is that the sleeper hosts are essential for the running of the train (they’re not like catering hosts on other services) - if they have to self-isolate and no replacements can be found then the sleeper might have to be cancelled with passengers forced to make alternative arrangements at short notice (which could be difficult in Covid times). Much better just to keep the sleeper running and to minimise the staff’s chance of catching Covid.

You should have been offered room service in the evening with a menu in your berth; CS should have informed you if this was unavailable. Perhaps take this up with them, as you should have been offered in-room refreshments even if the lounge car wasn’t open?

I disagree with increasing prices any further, as CS’ refreshments are already very expensive by the standards of on-train catering - it would get to a stage where the items offered such poor value for money that passengers would just buy before boarding anyway.

 

[nlogax]

Agree. Even in a cabin in the middle of the coach, the movements and feeling was all very taut, sudden and rattly. I felt like I was trying to sleep on the Northern Line

It's much easier to sleep on the Northern line than on CS judging by my last couple of trips. Maybe that's what we need - replace the CAF stuff with 95 stock..

 

[Blindtraveler]

This is a Northern line train terminating at fort William.


On the subject would I be happy using the lounge car at present the answer is yes I probably would. I've used minuscule hotel rooms, small cafes and various other things during the opened stages of the pandemic and provided the people operating such places are doing it properly then it's fine although I suspect the physical distancing requirements would make operation of the lounge quite challenging at the present time and it's probably easier on a practical note to run themselves ragged doing room service however I wonder if the staff have been given any additional support or or anything to provide this as one wonders if this was part of the grievances they had their strike about the other week


I've stayed in more than one place in the last year or so where are in order to provide the service safely there has been only one or possibly two tables seated in the dining room for breakfast at once and and should this be the sort of situation being faced by The lounge car then NZ room service is definitely the answer. But as to if I'd be happy to use it the answer is yes I would. I'm not going to go deeply into the whether I care about coronavirus thing because that's not a subject for this thread but I will say that I follow all necessary precautions and in some cases go above and beyond to both protect myself and those around me

 

[Davester50]

There's an awful lot of people who hate the new sleeper stock on principle because it's not Mark 3s, it's built by CAF and is simply new.

I've only travelled in the seats between Edinburgh and Fort William so far, but I enjoyed that immensely.

With the greatest respect then, you're not in a place to judge the beds then!

I've used the old and the new. They're fresh, and modern, with nice up to date textiles. I like(d) the new lounge car, although it's very cafeteria like rather than a pre-bed lounge.
They're also exceptionally badly designed for use of space, and much noisier if you get a berth over the wheels.

I couldn't care who built it. What matters is, is it an improvement for the journey, and a good nights sleep? Nope to either.

 

[roversfan2001]

Which berth number were you in?
From personal experience, anywhere near the bogies is not great ride wise. Nearer the middle of the carriage is somewhat better.

Berth 9 so right above the bogies. I expected a bit of a rough ride when I booked it but it was the only room it would offer me online.