Caledonion Sleeper

[MCR247]

Why does the above train on a Sunday leave Glasgow Central 2 hours before the Edinburgh? They normally leave at about the same time. Why is this?

 

[craig87034]

Why does the above train on a Sunday leave Glasgow Central 2 hours before the Edinburgh? They normally leave at about the same time. Why is this?

Because the Sleepers go via the East Coast on a Sunday night at the moment. The Glasgow portion meets the Edinburgh portion at Waverly where the train continues down the east coast.

 

[MCR247]

Oh right, that makes sense, thanks

 

[38Cto15E]

How and where do the shunting moves take place for the Caledonian?
I expect it is at Waverly but how are the 3 portions put together?
TIA

 

[rail-britain]

How and where do the shunting moves take place for the Caledonian?
I expect it is at Waverly but how are the 3 portions put together?

Three portions?

The Edinburgh portion starts boarding at 22:30 in platform 7
Glasgow Central arrives into platform 11 (at about 23:05)
The loco then runs round and pushes on to the rear of the Edinburgh

For the Aberdeen, Inverness, and Fort William it is the same as normal

 

[me123]

Because the Sleepers go via the East Coast on a Sunday night at the moment. The Glasgow portion meets the Edinburgh portion at Waverly where the train continues down the east coast.

Is that right? I'd have thought it more sensible to run the whole train from Glasgow to be honest!

 

[rail-britain]

Is that right? I'd have thought it more sensible to run the whole train from Glasgow to be honest!

The 16 coach train is "too long" for Glasgow Central
It could run from Glasgow Central but it is easier to retain the Edinburgh portion allowing these passengers to board and avoiding a "rush" as up to 120 try to board (which is not fun on a sleeper!)

 

[38Cto15E]

Guys, I have no knowledge of the Caledonian sleeper, but I do have an interest in how it comes together.
Am I correct in saying that it all comes into one at EDB, with 3 seperate parts, Fort William, Inverness and Aberdeen.
Presumably the Fort William section also covers Glasgow passengers.

It must be a sight to see, Fort William, 4 coaches? Inverness, 8? Aberdeen 4 ?
A bit of shunting to be done there, hope it doesn't wake too many passengers up when the sections are coupled up.
TIA

 

[rail-britain]

Am I correct in saying that it all comes into one at EDB, with 3 seperate parts, Fort William, Inverness and Aberdeen.
Presumably the Fort William section also covers Glasgow passengers.
It must be a sight to see, Fort William, 4 coaches? Inverness, 8? Aberdeen 4 ?
A bit of shunting to be done there, hope it doesn't wake too many passengers up when the sections are coupled up

The Aberdeen arrives first, the Inverness pushes back on to that
The Fort William then pushes on to the back of that
Only the Fort William sleepers are joined, the lounge car and brake seated coach remain in Edinburgh for the northbound service

The Inverness is 8 coaches
The Aberdeen is 5 or 6 coaches (depending on day)
The Fort William is 4 or 5 coaches (depending on day)

The shunting southbound isn't too bad
However, northbound it is worse, especially in the Fort William which is detached, attached, detached, attached!

The Fort William doesn't really serve Glasgow
However if the Glasgow is full you can book on this and some staff are aware of this option
The only stations it serves in the Glasgow area are Westerton, Dalmuir, and Helensburgh Upper

 

[reb0118]

Guys, I have no knowledge of the Californian sleeper, but I do have an interest in how it comes together.
Am I correct in saying that it all comes into one at EDB, with 3 separate parts, Fort William, Unevenness and Aberdeen.
Presumably the Fort William section also covers Glasgow passengers.

It must be a sight to see, Fort William, 4 coaches? Unevenness, 8? Aberdeen 4 ?
A bit of shunting to be done there, hope it doesn't wake too many passengers up when the sections are coupled up.
TIA

There are two Anglo-Scottish sleepers. Let's call them the "Lowlander" & the "Highlander".

The Lowlander consists of two portions 1) the Edinburgh portion & 2) the Glasgow portion. Both trains depart their respective stations and head to Carstairs where they attach to form one train via the WCM to London Euston.

The Highlander has three portions 1) Inverness, 2) Aberdeen, & 3) Fort William. All these trains make their way to Edinburgh* where they attach (leaving behind the seated & lounge car of the FW portion as the platform at Euston cannot accommodate the full train). This train then departs for London Euston via the WCM.

Engineering works can alter the above.

*No joining or alighting however transfer to/from seated FW section is allowed.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

We used the Fort William service last summer for our family holiday; not one of the four of us was disturbed by the shunting in either direction.

 

[Greenback]

I was woken up by some noise in the middle of the night on the southbound from Inverness, but I went straight back to sleep without looking at the time!

 

[87031]

northbound shunting is worse especially if your in the fort william portion, gets shunted about 4 times first when the inverness loco attaches, then when the aberdeen loco attaches then when the lounge car is attached to the fort will portion then finally when the loco runs round and attaches to the fort william portion, hard to kip though!

 

[CallySleeperKid]

To be honest I always seem to wake up at Edinburgh, I don't think its much to do with the shunting, more likely I'm just nosey and don't want to miss anything!

 

[Crossforth]

Is the service profitable or is it backed by the DfT?

 

[A60K]

Is the service profitable or is it backed by the DfT?

I don't believe any of the Sleepers are profitable, and they're all basically included in franchise agreements as a sort of Political PSO requirement.


That's not to say that a Friday or Sunday night sleeper in isolation doesn't cover it's direct costs, but that taken as a whole sleepers are not a commercial proposition - you wouldn't get an Open Access Operator proposal for example.

 

[rail-britain]

Even a full sleeper does not pay its costs
Prior to privitisation Virgin Trains made it clear it would not be interested in the sleepers services to Scotland, hence why they were transferred to ScotRail
For the sleeper to be profitable every berth would need to be sold at full price with a supplement of £65

However the FGW sleepers nearly covers its costs, as it also operates a local service from the seated portion, especially between Plymouth and Penzance
FGW doesn't offer the same fare structure so most berths are sold near to full price

It would be possible for an Open Access Operator to operate a profitable sleeper service, but the service would have to operate at or near capacity at all times, and with a full fare structure

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It would be possible for an Open Access Operator to operate a profitable sleeper service, but the service would have to operate at or near capacity at all times, and with a full fare structure

That statement just jolted my business brain into action. (Which is more than a day in the office has done)!
Do you happen to have an analysis of the income and expenditure that would apply to such a service? I'd be intrigued to see just where the costs are incurred.
Thanks