Call The Midwife Train Crash 13/02/22

[GC class B1]

IIRC, class 08s are not fitted with a DSD (Driver's Safety Device).

The locomotive concerned was a class 20 which does have a DSD.

 

[berwicksfinest]

IIRC, class 08s are not fitted with a DSD (Driver's Safety Device).

Class 08s are fitted with a DSD but usually held down with a fishplate/brake stick or similar .....................................alledgely

 

[32475]

On Call the Midwife, Mrs 32475 and I are mystified about how Fred and Violet Buckle run two shops at two separate locations and yet they spend much of their time either in the newsagents or else in the haberdashery. On top of that, Fred is handyman at Nonatus House, Civil Defence coordinator and allotment keeper while Violet is a local councillor.
How do they do it?

 

[30907]

Any TV show that involves trains is littered with inaccuracies that only an enthusiast would ever care about (Azuma going into a tunnel, Class 25 coming out, sort of thing) but I did think that the idea that there were no safety systems in the train whatsoever was bit annoying. I liked the way someone asked 'Where was the train coming from ?' to be told Chelmsford, as if it was some direct Chelmsford to Liverpool Street non-stop shuttle.

But saying "Norwich" (the only likely origin for a loco-hauled train calling there - was 1N35 on the class 20 an Up Norwich headcode BTW?) wouldn't have had the dramatic effect.
At least the driver had a recognisable "new" uniform.
I presume the Mid Hants has a 20 but not a 37 - and at least a 20 has East London connections.

 

[Cowley]

I presume the Mid Hants has a 20 but not a 37 - and at least a 20 has East London connections.

Yes the Mid Hants has 20059 and 20188 at the moment but no class 37 since 37905 (I think) left…

 

[TheSel]

Surely the crash could have been avoided had Jenny Agutter removed her petticoat and run along the line?

 

[AM9]

Surely the crash could have been avoided had Jenny Agutter removed her petticoat and run along the line?

Maybe she didn't have anything red with her that day.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

IIRC, class 08s are not fitted with a DSD (Driver's Safety Device).

The driver who collapsed was at the controls of a class 20.

 

[D6130]

The driver who collapsed was at the controls of a class 20.

Fair enough....I didn't actually see the sequence, but was going by the posts I had read above and obviously had a senior moment!

 

[Deplox4]

Fair enough....I didn't actually see the sequence, but was going by the posts I had read above and obviously had a senior moment!

And why did the dead man's handle not work when the driver fainted / fell asleep.
No. A poor, unnecessary episode in this series. There are more convincing ways of "losing" actors who are leaving the cast. (If that is what is happening.)

As far as I can recall, when a class 20 was running “bonnet” first it would have been double manned due to the restricted view from the drivers seat

 

[30907]

As far as I can recall, when a class 20 was running “bonnet” first it would have been double manned due to the restricted view from the drivers seat

And a class 1 service in the 60s would have been double manned anyway.

We await the HMRI report
I imagine it will recommend widespread introduction of AWS and checks on the maintenance of DSDs, plus perhaps more regular health screening of safety critical staff. Maybe something about local signalling arrangements - anything else? (Bit early historically to be talking crashworthiness of Mk1s?)

 

[AM9]

And a class 1 service in the 60s would have been double manned anyway.

We await the HMRI report
I imagine it will recommend widespread introduction of AWS and checks on the maintenance of DSDs, plus perhaps more regular health screening of safety critical staff. Maybe something about local signalling arrangements - anything else? (Bit early historically to be talking crashworthiness of Mk1s?)

To be fair, today's episode was better put together than last weeks in terms of the railway detail. Maybe it would have been better if they had not tried to show so much of the journey and the events on the train, the plot could still have worked with a more subtle approach to the railway matters.

 

[yorksrob]

(Bit early historically to be talking crashworthiness of Mk1s?)

They'd probably conclude that they performed better than earlier wooden bodied stock would have done.

 

[AM9]

They'd probably conclude that they performed better than earlier wooden bodied stock would have done.

Especially in the case of fire.

 

[yorksrob]

Especially in the case of fire.

Indeed.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Wasn't the GE electrified by 1967 anyway?

I think we can give them some leeway on the accuracy as they wouldn't have had access to an electrified preserved mainline, nor would I assume anyone would want their preserved EMUs to be smashed up.

 

[30907]

Wasn't the GE electrified by 1967 anyway?

I think we can give them some leeway on the accuracy as they wouldn't have had access to an electrified preserved mainline, nor would I assume anyone would want their preserved EMUs to be smashed up.

Norwich wasn't, so a diesel from Chelmsford was possible.
And I don't think any rolling stock was harmed in the making of this film

 

[Scotrail314209]

Norwich wasn't, so a diesel from Chelmsford was possible.
And I don't think any rolling stock was harmed in the making of this film

Ah thanks for clarifying.

My only niggle with it is, if an oil wagon (loaded presumably) collided with the side of the carriage and partially exploded, why wasn't the carriage much more damaged?

 

[matt]

Norwich wasn't, so a diesel from Chelmsford was possible.
And I don't think any rolling stock was harmed in the making of this film

One of the coaches was but it had been acquired by the Mid Hants for its bogies so was probably going to be scrapped anyway

 

[AM9]

Wasn't the GE electrified by 1967 anyway?

I think we can give them some leeway on the accuracy as they wouldn't have had access to an electrified preserved mainline, nor would I assume anyone would want their preserved EMUs to be smashed up.

The Great Eastern main line was electrified with 1500VDC OLE as far as Shenfield in 1949 and extended to Chelmsford in 1956. The line was converted to 6.25Kv ac as far as Shenfield and 25Kv ac from there to Chelmsford in 1960. There was also a link from the GEML at Bow to Gas Factory junction on the London Tilbury and Southend line which in the line would have just possibly meant a train would be passing through somewhere near the mythical East London location of Nonnatus house.
They could have used a preserved Thumper dressed up as a 305/307/308 EMU, which could be running at some time from Chelmsford to Fenchurch St..

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The Great Eastern main line was electrified with 1500VDC OLE as far as Shenfield in 1949 and extended to Chelmsford in 1956. The line was converted to 6.25Kv ac as far as Shenfield and 25Kv ac from there to Chelmsford in 1960. There was also a link from the GEML at Bow to Gas Factory junction on the London Tilbury and Southend line which in the line would have just possibly meant a train would be passing through somewhere near the mythical East London location of Nonnatus house.
They could have used a preserved Thumper dressed up as a 305/307/308 EMU, which could be running at some time from Chelmsford to Fenchurch St..

The electrified spur from Bow Junction towards Fenchurch St was included in the Shenfield electrification of 1946 (?) , to replicated long standing "inner" services from the likes of Ilford and so on , but in reality saw very little use apart from engineering led diversions , so unlikely to have seen a Chelmsford originating service in any form !. Still , it is TV.

Watching the programme with a serving midwife , is interesting from a professional medical viewpoint - my own observations on the "drama" is that the wrecked train would almost certainly had a major call out from railway staff (none seen at all) , and whilst the guard would have almost certainly gone back to protect the train , one would expect a quick return to survey and no doubt check the train for the extent of passenger injuries and so on. Numerous small fires would have been professionally dealt with the fire brigade as a matter of urgency I would have thought , and it would have been a "make pumps xxxx" as a matter of absolute priority. (but then for filming purposes that would be difficult to replicate.

Finally the unfortunate widow of the driver , would have been visited by local management at various levels , - including at home , and given a wide range of practical and so on support.

But then , Nonatus House clearly is the lynchpin of the East End and is self supporting , even to the extent of findng direct lines to the Coroner's office.....

 

[AM9]

The electrified spur from Bow Junction towards Fenchurch St was included in the Shenfield electrification of 1946 (?) , to replicated long standing "inner" services from the likes of Ilford and so on , but in reality saw very little use apart from engineering led diversions , so unlikely to have seen a Chelmsford originating service in any form !. Still , it is TV.

Watching the programme with a serving midwife , is interesting from a professional medical viewpoint - my own observations on the "drama" is that the wrecked train would almost certainly had a major call out from railway staff (none seen at all) , and whilst the guard would have almost certainly gone back to protect the train , one would expect a quick return to survey and no doubt check the train for the extent of passenger injuries and so on. Numerous small fires would have been professionally dealt with the fire brigade as a matter of urgency I would have thought , and it would have been a "make pumps xxxx" as a matter of absolute priority. (but then for filming purposes that would be difficult to replicate.

Finally the unfortunate widow of the driver , would have been visited by local management at various levels , - including at home , and given a wide range of practical and so on support.

But then , Nonatus House clearly is the lynchpin of the East End and is self supporting , even to the extent of findng direct lines to the Coroner's office.....

Thanks for the info on the GR-LT&S link, I wasn't sure when it was installed which is why didn't mention it in the conversion info.. It was a bit like the electrified Woodgrange Park link, there for operational convenience but until quite recently not really used for passenger services.
However poor or trite the general plot of the series is, on the subject of (maternity) medical accuracy, it has been applauded universally for it's technical accuracy and as much as possible, realism. The production team has an experienced practicing midwife as an adviser. See here
"This is my 40th year in the NHS and I’ve spent more than 33 years as a midwife and lecturer. I now work half the year in a clinical post and the other six months as an adviser for BBC 1’s Call the Midwife."
My daughter is a matron midwife and we often discuss the programme, - her filling me in on some details and me being a teenager inb the '60s having a memory of some of the major issues around which some of the plots are shaped, e.g. smallpox and measels vaccination, thalidomide etc.. We do bath laugh at the antics of birthing whilst observing social distancing, - it's more like the midwife is catching a rugby ball at 2 metres sometimes!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Thanks for the info on the GR-LT&S link, I wasn't sure when it was installed which is why didn't mention it in the conversion info.. It was a bit like the electrified Woodgrange Park link, there for operational convenience but until quite recently not really used for passenger services.
However poor or trite the general plot of the series is, on the subject of (maternity) medical accuracy, it has been applauded universally for it's technical accuracy and as much as possible, realism. The production team has an experienced practicing midwife as an adviser. See here
"This is my 40th year in the NHS and I’ve spent more than 33 years as a midwife and lecturer. I now work half the year in a clinical post and the other six months as an adviser for BBC 1’s Call the Midwife."
My daughter is a matron midwife and we often discuss the programme, - her filling me in on some details and me being a teenager inb the '60s having a memory of some of the major issues around which some of the plots are shaped, e.g. smallpox and measels vaccination, thalidomide etc.. We do bath laugh at the antics of birthing whilst observing social distancing, - it's more like the midwife is catching a rugby ball at 2 metres sometimes!

Good Sunday evening watching , which clearly attracts a large viewing audience ! - the themes of medical issues are well covered - maybe for future rail related incidents they could call on the very wide range of railway skills available.

The Shenfield electrification clearly repurposed the track layouts , (Ilford flyover etc) , a superb scheme , but the Fenchurch St service was meant to be a shuttle to the newly built London End bay platform at Stratford (which we considered for Crossrail 1 , and kept it clear of possible obstructions until it was repurposed in the new , enlarged Stratford some years later) - in passing , I would love to go back in time and see how those signalmen pre modernisation threaded in services through there to both Liverpool St and Fenchurch Street. 24 tph with no digital signalling !.

 

[The Vicar]

I commuted between Liverpool Street and Colchester via Chelmsford around this period and agree with the comments about the locomotive. However some of the carriages were pretty tired at the time but………. the most important point is that the railway doesn’t go anywhere near Poplar.

 

[Peasmould]

We just saw this last weekend (I'm in the US) and I agree with most of you that it was very well staged, all convincing enough for the integrity of the story line. The worst part for me was the rather hammy overdone build up. Why were they afraid of any element of surprise? And it lead me to this wonderful site! As I had railway relatives going back to the LNER and its predecessors in the 1800s, and was a (mainly steam) "train spotter" back in the 50s/60s, I am always interested in the technical side. I've learned a lot here - thank you all!

Here are my additional thoughts and questions for the experts here, please:

I wonder if it could have been a "football special" to/from Chelmsford - those seemed to often be made up with odd locos and rolling stock? I wasn't following leagues and teams in the '60s closely enough to know if that was possible relative to the League Divisions then.

Good to hear that a class 20 did have a deadman's cancellation system and would have been double manned (for visibility) if running nose first.

One more thought I had was wouldn't there have been a guard in a brake coach, who would have seen the passing of the red home signal and felt the alarming acceleration and applied the brakes? Even the two or four car DMUs had a guard in those days, in the north east, at least.

 

[Scotrail314209]

We just saw this last weekend (I'm in the US) and I agree with most of you that it was very well staged, all convincing enough for the integrity of the story line. The worst part for me was the rather hammy overdone build up. Why were they afraid of any element of surprise? And it lead me to this wonderful site! As I had railway relatives going back to the LNER and its predecessors in the 1800s, and was a (mainly steam) "train spotter" back in the 50s/60s, I am always interested in the technical side. I've learned a lot here - thank you all!

Here are my additional thoughts and questions for the experts here, please:

I wonder if it could have been a "football special" to/from Chelmsford - those seemed to often be made up with odd locos and rolling stock? I wasn't following leagues and teams in the '60s closely enough to know if that was possible relative to the League Divisions then.

Good to hear that a class 20 did have a deadman's cancellation system and would have been double manned (for visibility) if running nose first.

One more thought I had was wouldn't there have been a guard in a brake coach, who would have seen the passing of the red home signal and felt the alarming acceleration and applied the brakes? Even the two or four car DMUs had a guard in those days, in the north east, at least.

The element of surprise was lost once it was revealed the husband (can’t remember his name) of the woman who was giving birth at the time was driving.

 

[30907]

One more thought I had was wouldn't there have been a guard in a brake coach, who would have seen the passing of the red home signal and felt the alarming acceleration and applied the brakes? Even the two or four car DMUs had a guard in those days, in the north east, at least.

Correct, and welcome to the forum.

 

[Peasmould]

Correct, and welcome to the forum.

Thank you, 30907.

 

[Peasmould]

Sorry, this is off topic here, I know. It should be on a "Telephones UK" forum. But while we're talking about Call the Midwife, please does anyone know the answer to the technical accuracy question that has bothered me most? Wherever their telephones ring (Nonnatus House, Doctor Turner's surgery, private homes, etc.) they ring once, with equal pauses between (ring - pauuuuuuse - ring - pauuuuuuse ...).

Was that a London thing in the 60s? I grew up straddling two telephone companies in Yorkshire - Hull Telephones around Hull (where we started with a "party line") and GPO Telephones nearer to York. Every external phone I experienced had a double ring (ring - ring - pauuuuuuse - ring - ring -pauuuuuuse ...). The only phones I heard in the 1960s that rang like those in Call The Midwife were in the American TV shows, like Dick van Dyke and Perry Mason.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Peasmould. You may have a point.

Believe the standard ringing pattern in the U.S. is/was something like two seconds of ringing, followed by four seconds of silence.

In the U.K., it is/was 0.4 seconds ringing, followed by 0.2 seconds silence, followed by another 0.4 seconds ringing, and then two seconds of silence.

Not sure if this ever differed for local calls/long distance calls.