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Cambrian hourly service consultation

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Gareth Marston

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If the loop is shut further west, that's the only solution (other than getting everyone to switch trains!!).

Had a look in at Welshpool station today, poster is up showing the extra trains for Saturday PM and Sunday AM this weekend and next. The DOWN loop had a red stop light clamped to it on the Newtown side of the DOWN platform before the points for the Engineers siding, there was nothing "guarding" the entrance to the DOWN loop at the Shrewsbury end. I would say that they will be reversing the extra trains into it by the look of things.
 
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IKBrunel

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http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...ropshire-and-mid-wales-as-early-as-next-year/
in its entirety says:

March 4, 2014 09:59
Hourly train service between Shropshire and Mid Wales as early as next year
An hourly train service between Shropshire and Mid Wales could be launched as early as next year, an MP claimed today.


Montgomeryshire MP Glyn Davies said he met Arriva Trains Wales bosses in Westminster to push for a quicker implementation of an hourly service between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth.

Campaigners have been fighting for the service for 20 years and Mr Davies said he believes the move will have a massive impact on tourism and business in Mid Wales.

He said: “I have been discussing the need for an hourly service on the Cambrian line for decades with various bodies and organisations.

“Over recent years, greater customer demand on the line has made the need for a more frequent service a more pressing priority.

“Investment in infrastructure works needed to accommodate an hourly service has been completed and the Welsh Government is now contemplating changes to Arriva Trains Wales’ franchise which would allow the service to be implemented.

“An hourly service between Aberystwyth and Birmingham would be a major boost to the people of Mid Wales and I am optimistic that it will be a reality by 2015.”

The trains would pass from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury, stopping at both Newtown and Welshpool en route.

I'm not getting excited until I've seen a published timetable for it though..
 

Gareth Marston

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http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...ropshire-and-mid-wales-as-early-as-next-year/
in its entirety says:


I'm not getting excited until I've seen a published timetable for it though..

As Chief Executive of the former Development Board for Rural Wales he did provide £ for the line speed improvements east of Talerdig in the early 90's. The Montgomeryshire Conservatives ( there's an AM as we'll) are keen to be seen as driving the agenda and taking the creDit. However as one campaigner said getting them to do much work beyond having their photo taken is quite hard!
 

merlodlliw

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As an aside,I picked up SWMBO yeterday off the 1546 to Birmingham at Wrexham,she had been to Bangor for a WG National Assess Forum meeting,it was a two car 158, absolutely filthy on the outside,usually ATWs are very clean like the 0802 175 she caught to Llandudno Junction for a 25 minute wait for the Bangor train. Where are the 158s washed these days,I presume this stock came off the Cambrian at some point in the Morning.

Montgomeryshire MP Glyn Davies said he met Arriva Trains Wales bosses in Westminster to push for a quicker implementation of an hourly service between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth.





Interesting to note,but without money on the table,as ATW usually say,not a chance.[/QUOTE], the more noise made by Politicians and others the better
the message gets home,
 
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Rhydgaled

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Where are the 158s washed these days
I think I've seen a train wash when passing Machynlleth depot.

Yesterday I saw a train of wagons in Aberystwyth station hauled by two 37s (aka 97s). Unfortunately the camera battery went flat before I could take a picture.

All this talk of an hourly service in December but no mention of extra rolling stock to provide for two 158s to be diverted to the Cambrian is making me nervous. Good for the Cambrian but not for the rest of Wales if additional stock is not found.
 

Gareth Marston

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I think I've seen a train wash when passing Machynlleth depot.

Yesterday I saw a train of wagons in Aberystwyth station hauled by two 37s (aka 97s). Unfortunately the camera battery went flat before I could take a picture.

All this talk of an hourly service in December but no mention of extra rolling stock to provide for two 158s to be diverted to the Cambrian is making me nervous. Good for the Cambrian but not for the rest of Wales if additional stock is not found.

As usual on our railway nowadays loads of infrastructure work but bug gar all ordering of extra stock, if the Cambrian is anything to go by HS2 will be built but not any rolling stock to work on it!
 

topydre

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Aberystwyth station this sunday - too good to miss!
IMAG0844.jpg

Plus there was a tamper just outside the station on monday
 
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Class 170101

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An hourly service on the Cambrian? With what? A trolley?

Where are the DMUs? TPE are curently bleating out for them.
 

jones_bangor

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All this talk of an hourly service in December but no mention of extra rolling stock to provide for two 158s to be diverted to the Cambrian is making me nervous. Good for the Cambrian but not for the rest of Wales if additional stock is not found.

More LHCS on Holyhead - CArdiff franchised workings would free up stock.
 

Gareth Marston

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An hourly service on the Cambrian? With what? A trolley?

Where are the DMUs? TPE are curently bleating out for them.

I see that Croatia have managed to order both new DMU's and EMU's clearly they haven't heard that no one makes DMU's anymore. If you log on Stadlers website they still seem to be offering them for order to!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More LHCS on Holyhead - CArdiff franchised workings would free up stock.

Don't get him excited.
 

cymro inside

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talk is of a lhcs set for a Llandudno to Manchester to Holyhead to Manchester to Chester diagram in may 2015 to release a set or two.stock to be stabled at lnwr Crewe apparently.
 

Rhydgaled

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More LHCS on Holyhead - CArdiff franchised workings would free up stock.
Or, as I keep saying, find some additional LHCS and put it on Manchester - Llandudno/Bangor/Holyhead services. I believe those services are busier than Cardiff-Holyhead and could hence justify the cost of LHCS better. Either way, two LHCS sets should free up two 158s for the Cambrian or two 175s which in turn can free up two 158s (you might even be able to do a cascade: LHCS > 3-car 175s, > 2-car 175s > 158s, and spread longer trains to more passengers). To get two 158s with a single extra LHCS rake though means finding a diagram which is currently a pair of 158s (or 175s, but I don't think ATW use them in multiple) to put the LHCS set one.

Unfortunately, there's been no indication (as far as I'm aware) that this is what will happen. So where's the stock coming from?

talk is of a lhcs set for a Llandudno to Manchester to Holyhead to Manchester to Chester diagram in may 2015 to release a set or two.stock to be stabled at lnwr Crewe apparently.
May 2015 is a bit late if the Cambrian service is due to start Dec 2014. Also, where is this 'talk' coming from? If WAG aren't paying, I doubt it will happen (especially since ATW sold the coaches they owned).
 

cymro inside

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atw are looking into it as dft are going to make a contribution,6 more mk3s so the story goes.and the story is coming from inside atw from reliable sources.
 

Chris125

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I see that Croatia have managed to order both new DMU's and EMU's clearly they haven't heard that no one makes DMU's anymore. If you log on Stadlers website they still seem to be offering them for order to!

I've not seen anyone suggest that DMUs aren't being made anywhere, but the market for a European design is far larger than one built specifically to operate here - the larger loading gauge and low platforms also help mitigate the consequences of changing engine regulations, and electrification isn't such an issue for the future either.

Chris
 

Rhydgaled

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atw are looking into it as dft are going to make a contribution,6 more mk3s so the story goes.and the story is coming from inside atw from reliable sources.
DfT? That's interesting, in the semi-recent past WAG seem to have been left to pay for most enhancements in Wales.
 

Rhydgaled

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Oh, and forgot to ask. Is there an extra 67+DVT to go with the six extra mrk3s or is it only coaches? If the latter, then unless Gerald goes it'd only be one rake in service as ATW's fleet is currently 3 67s and 3 DVTs I believe (and 1 DVT and 1 67 would need to be spare).
 

cymro inside

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I don't know where an additional dvt would be obtained from but an additional 67 should be possible, 67 012 has been on hire from Chiltern this week and with class 68s on the horizon there may be a pool of 67s available in two years.
 

merlodlliw

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If the run is Manchester/Holyhead etc would you need a DVT,I presume there would be a turnaround at Manchester like Holyhead?

A contact also very much the know replies

Hi Bob,

Yes, I have heard much same from ATW traincrew. PM me if you want my source
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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If the run is Manchester/Holyhead etc would you need a DVT,I presume there would be a turnaround at Manchester like Holyhead?

No easy place to run round at Manchester without causing congestion.
Holyhead-Manchester-Cardiff would work though (running through Piccadilly P13/14).

Crewe P12 is the best place, or Chester.
Birmingham is easier. You can run either way into/out of New St, with a time
penalty via Aston, as FNW used to do.

I imagine Arriva will be looking at this from a group perspective, with Chiltern and ATW both using similar 67+Mk3+DVT stock and maintained at LNWR.
 

merlodlliw

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No easy place to run round at Manchester without causing congestion.
Holyhead-Manchester-Cardiff would work though (running through Piccadilly P13/14).

Crewe P12 is the best place, or Chester.
Birmingham is easier. You can run either way into/out of New St, with a time
penalty via Aston, as FNW used to do.

I imagine Arriva will be looking at this from a group perspective, with Chiltern and ATW both using similar 67+Mk3+DVT stock and maintained at LNWR.
If I now recall no turnaround at Manchester was mentioned in previous threads there was at Victoria in the old days
 

Gareth Marston

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If the run is Manchester/Holyhead etc would you need a DVT,I presume there would be a turnaround at Manchester like Holyhead?

A contact also very much the know replies

Hi Bob,

Yes, I have heard much same from ATW traincrew. PM me if you want my source

This is all arse about tit given other DFT lead rail news effecting rolling stock in the north west, but I wouldn't put it past DFT on past record to do something like this.

ATW crew rumours are maybe not the best remember that Mach crew were telling Cambrian passengers earlier this year that the hourly service would start in December. The Report was not submitted to 01 February and there's been no WG comment on it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No easy place to run round at Manchester without causing congestion.
Holyhead-Manchester-Cardiff would work though (running through Piccadilly P13/14).

Crewe P12 is the best place, or Chester.
Birmingham is easier. You can run either way into/out of New St, with a time
penalty via Aston, as FNW used to do.

I imagine Arriva will be looking at this from a group perspective, with Chiltern and ATW both using similar 67+Mk3+DVT stock and maintained at LNWR.

Maybe it's how DFT will get DMU's to Northern/TPE. ATW are a logical choice to operate MK3's so bung them two 3 coach sets, get 7 or 8 158's in return, thin out the ATW services on the north Wales coast.....
 

Rhydgaled

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I don't know where an additional dvt would be obtained from but an additional 67 should be possible, 67 012 has been on hire from Chiltern this week and with class 68s on the horizon there may be a pool of 67s available in two years.
Maybe more than one additional 67 then, so the additional sets can be top and tailed? Wikipedia suggests there are still arround 17 stored Virgin Trains Mrk3 DVTs out there though, so it's probably easier to find another of them than more 67s (at least until the 68s start coming on stream).

If the run is Manchester/Holyhead etc would you need a DVT,I presume there would be a turnaround at Manchester like Holyhead?
Llandudno though, according to the North Wales rail newsletter, has lost a loco-run round loop. Would swapping things so that more Manchesters go to Holyhead rather than Llandudno be a likely move?

No easy place to run round at Manchester without causing congestion.
Holyhead-Manchester-Cardiff would work though (running through Piccadilly P13/14).

Crewe P12 is the best place, or Chester.
Birmingham is easier. You can run either way into/out of New St, with a time
penalty via Aston, as FNW used to do.
Crewe and Chester terminating wouldn't fit into the current standard pattern though, Manchesters would need retiming to match (and do you really want to be sending expensive LHCS sets into Pembrokeshire, assuming Manchester - Cardiffs continue to continue to Milford Haven?) and Birmingham would require a major rejig of Cambrian services to remove the interworking etc.

There isn't really an awful lot you can do with LHCS on the ATW franchise (other than special event relief perhaps) unless you have top&tail or DVTs/DBSOs.

The Report was not submitted to 01 February and there's been no WG comment on it.
Have details of what is in the report emerged yet? Timetables etc.?

Maybe it's how DFT will get DMU's to Northern/TPE. ATW are a logical choice to operate MK3's so bung them two 3 coach sets, get 7 or 8 158's in return, thin out the ATW services on the north Wales coast.....
<( If you want to steal 7 or 8 158s from Wales with two additional LHCS diagrams, you'd have to cut alot of services, 'thinning out' would not even begin to describe the extent of the damage. Even axing an hourly service between Holyhead and Chester would only save two units.
 

merlodlliw

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I must add, this is chatter from traincrew according to sources,not from the Company,it may well be various messroom options are being thrown about as the end of the current Wales & Borders franchise nears.
The ATW staff speculation about the hourly December Cambrian had no WG conformation.

As for spare DVTs,some of the ex VTs must be in a rough condition,the ones the Old W/S used needed a lot of refurbishment due to leaks etc,we were told this by the ex CEO of W/S, like any stock if its parked in the open & not used for years, it soon deteriorates.

Just my thoughts.
 

Gareth Marston

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I must add, this is chatter from traincrew according to sources,not from the Company,it may well be various messroom options are being thrown about as the end of the current Wales & Borders franchise nears.
The ATW staff speculation about the hourly December Cambrian had no WG conformation.

As for spare DVTs,some of the ex VTs must be in a rough condition,the ones the Old W/S used needed a lot of refurbishment due to leaks etc,we were told this by the ex CEO of W/S, like any stock if its parked in the open & not used for years, it soon deteriorates.

Just my thoughts.

Yes there's nothing like staff gossip it doesn't quite stack up when you think about it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This weekends Montgomeryshire County Times quotes the Secretary of the Line Liaison Committee and Welshpool TC Clerk Robert Robinson as having told Welshpool TC that the hourly service will start no later than May 15 once ATW have recruited drivers. Other detail in the article state sit will be hourly from 6 to 12 (no direction specified but clearly must be UP direction) and the Minister will make announcement by end of March.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Welshpool TC claim the inside track...

from http://www.newsnorthwales.co.uk/news/131888/hourly-trains-by-may-2015-.aspx
Hourly trains by May 2015?
Published date: 14 March 2014 | Published by: Naomi Penrose
Read more articles by Naomi Penrose Email reporter

MID Wales will have its hourly rail service no later than the end of May 2015 says the secretary of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Liaison Committee.

Robert Robinson, Welshpool town clerk and secretary of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Liaison Committee, has revealed the services will be in place on the Cambrian line by next year and released rail timetable details.

There will be a train every hour from 6am until noon, as opposed to the current every other hour service that is in place.

Mr Robinson said: “The hourly services will be in place no later than May 2015. Arriva Train Wales now need to get hold of drivers for that service and then the service will be running.”

Cllr Phil Pritchard has hailed the news as “absolutely tremendous”.

He told the County Times: “This is the single most important matter in the area.

“This will increase Mid Wales’ economy and, even more importantly, Welshpool’s, as it is the gateway to Wales.

“This is fantastic and every praise should go to Robert Robinson and the team, as well as Welshpool Town Council for allowing Robert to take the time to be a part of this, he’s done a great job.”

Last year more than 6,500 people responded to a survey which was conducted by the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Liaison Committee on behalf of the Welsh Government.

Residents in Welshpool and Newtown received a booklet and survey direct to their homes and Newtown and Welshpool High Schools also took part in the survey.

The survey was also conducted while people were travelling on the trains.

Cllr Steve Kaye, leader of the Welshpool Business Forum, said the hourly services will prove extremely beneficial to the young people in the area, as well as local businesses.

He said: “The young people who can’t get to work will now be able to. The young will start earning and achieving, rather than moving away to work.

“We will be able to keep our population and provide for those young people. It will prove beneficial for businesses too as they will have their pick of young people.

“It will also be fantastic for tourism in the area.”

Cllr Kaye also suggested that once the hourly service is in place, trains could carry parcels between towns on the route.

He said: “That would be excellent for businesses in the area, one carriage could be used for luggage for students travelling to and from Aberystwyth University and that carriage could also be used to carry parcels between companies based along the line.”

On Wednesday, March 12, members of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Liaison Committee’s Cambrian Line Implementation Group met with Minister for Economy, Science and Transport, Edwina Hart.

Ms Hart is due to make an announcement on the hourly service at the end of this month, according to Mr Robinson.
For more news from across the region visit countytimes.co.uk


Farmers get excited too

from http://www.mywelshpool.co.uk/newsvi...Farmers-concern-over-hourly-rail-service.aspx

Farmers' concern over hourly rail service - created on 13/03/2014

The introduction of an hourly train service would create a huge economic boost to the Welshpool area, but not everyone is happy.
The First Minister of Wales, Carwyn Jones, has pledged to raise the concerns of local farmers affected by the implementation of an hourly train service on the Cambrian Line with track operator, Network Rail.
The farmers claim that increased rail services will bring more problems for transporting livestock across the track, and they fear that the boundary fence along the length of the track could come under more strain.
The First Minister’s commitment came following a question raised by Montgomeryshire Assembly Member, Russell George, who stated that while the realisation of an hourly train service was vital for the regional economy, there were legitimate concerns among the agricultural community who lived alongside the line.
“I’m pleased that the First Minister has listened to the concerns of affected local farmers,” said Mr George. “While the implementation of an hourly train service on the Cambrian Line is vital for business and tourism, the safety of both people and livestock is paramount.
“Farmers who own parcels of land either side of the mainline have told me that they are concerned that along various sections of the line’s boundary fence, designed to limit access to the line, there are a number of sizeable gaps that is allowing livestock to stray onto the track.
“Also the challenges of getting livestock across the line within a narrow time frame are significant. One farmer told me that it takes him at least half an hour to get his cattle across and that he would need a minimum 40 minute window to allow him to complete the process safely; with a service coming through every hour, this leaves very little room for error.
“I believe Network Rail must work with local farmers to find practical solutions to the movement of farm animals across the track in a safe and timely manner; that could mean building holding pens near track crossings which would fundamentally speed up the movement process.”
 
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merlodlliw

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The paper mentioned, is printed in Deeside(Flints) same stable as the Wrexham daily Leader, with all respect some of the reporting staff,are a little rail unwise.

the 0600 to noon slot is interesting,as for the farmers,they will of course have a point,looks like the FUW & NFU have been canvassed,however is this just speculation, prior to an official announcement of WG funds being made available or transferred from other areas. Gerald & Wagair are up for new Capitol money contracts in 2015,also its the supposed start of the Wrexham part redouble opening. And will the Fishguard trials remain funded? this was always a sore point with Cambrian hourly supporters who considered the Cambrian funds had been politically switched to West Wales.

Later thoughts,I presume the eight units 2 X 4 158s on the crowded Manchester morning runs from Chester are the only available stock for the hourly runs, so is there strength to the Loco Hauled tales?
 
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Rhydgaled

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MID Wales will have its hourly rail service no later than the end of May 2015 says the secretary of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Liaison Committee.

Robert Robinson, Welshpool town clerk and secretary of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Liaison Committee, has revealed the services will be in place on the Cambrian line by next year and released rail timetable details.

There will be a train every hour from 6am until noon, as opposed to the current every other hour service that is in place.

Mr Robinson said: “The hourly services will be in place no later than May 2015. Arriva Train Wales now need to get hold of drivers for that service and then the service will be running.”
Still no news on rolling stock?

And why only 6am until noon? That doesn't seem logical, surely it takes the same ammount of additional resources which would then be sitting idle in the afternoon?
 
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