Cambrian hourly service consultation

[Rhydgaled]

Just the 18 09 Birmingham Int to Aberystwyth reduced to 2 Car beyond Shrewsbury.

Is it currently 4-car through to AYW then? According to the current (Dec 2014) PDF timetable booklet, the 18:09 doesn't have a coast portion, so I assumed it was 2-car.

Still, well done to the train planners for resourcing quite a few extra services with only one service each way cut from 4-car to 2-car. Would of course be better if they didn't have to cut anything, but we can't really expect that with no extra rolling stock. WAG really ought to make sure an enhanced service can be resourced before requiring ATW to provide it.

 

[PHILIPE]

Is it currently 4-car through to AYW then? According to the current (Dec 2014) PDF timetable booklet, the 18:09 doesn't have a coast portion, so I assumed it was 2-car.

Still, well done to the train planners for resourcing quite a few extra services with only one service each way cut from 4-car to 2-car. Would of course be better if they didn't have to cut anything, but we can't really expect that with no extra rolling stock. WAG really ought to make sure an enhanced service can be resourced before requiring ATW to provide it.

Currently both units go through with a freshly fuelled up unit going to Pwllheli.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Is it currently 4-car through to AYW then? According to the current (Dec 2014) PDF timetable booklet, the 18:09 doesn't have a coast portion, so I assumed it was 2-car.

Still, well done to the train planners for resourcing quite a few extra services with only one service each way cut from 4-car to 2-car. Would of course be better if they didn't have to cut anything, but we can't really expect that with no extra rolling stock. WAG really ought to make sure an enhanced service can be resourced before requiring ATW to provide it.

Let's hope their not trying to pull this sort of rabbit out the hat to get an hourly Holyhead to Cardiff service going - the impact of that would be horrendous

 

[beargy]

Whilst it's fantastic news that the new hourly Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury services on the Cambrian Line are finally due to start on the 17th of May (www.gov.wales/newsroom/transport/2015/150320midwalestrains), why couldn't the new additional ones be extended past Shrewsbury to locations other than Birmingham e.g. down to Cardiff (or maybe up to Wrexham)?

The extension of the HoW line services to Crewe seems sensible to improve onward connectivity so I would've thought similar logic should apply to the Cambrian line. I'm assuming it's due to constraints with available stock but it does seem like it should have at least been considered given the absence of any direct services between Cardiff and Cambrian Line destinations.

 

[trawscymru27]

Whilst it's fantastic news that the new hourly Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury services on the Cambrian Line are finally due to start on the 17th of May (www.gov.wales/newsroom/transport/2015/150320midwalestrains), why couldn't the new additional ones be extended past Shrewsbury to locations other than Birmingham e.g. down to Cardiff (or maybe up to Wrexham)?

The extension of the HoW line services to Crewe seems sensible to improve onward connectivity so I would've thought similar logic should apply to the Cambrian line. I'm assuming it's due to constraints with available stock but it does seem like it should have at least been considered given the absence of any direct services between Cardiff and Cambrian Line destinations.

You have answered your own question! There quite simply aren't enough trains. As it is, to provide the extra services from next month will require more efficient maintenance scheduling.

 

[berneyarms]

Whilst it's fantastic news that the new hourly Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury services on the Cambrian Line are finally due to start on the 17th of May (www.gov.wales/newsroom/transport/2015/150320midwalestrains), why couldn't the new additional ones be extended past Shrewsbury to locations other than Birmingham e.g. down to Cardiff (or maybe up to Wrexham)?

The extension of the HoW line services to Crewe seems sensible to improve onward connectivity so I would've thought similar logic should apply to the Cambrian line. I'm assuming it's due to constraints with available stock but it does seem like it should have at least been considered given the absence of any direct services between Cardiff and Cambrian Line destinations.

There are simply not enough Class 158s available. Simple as.

Plus the timetable out of Birmingham is designed in such a way to facilitate Class 158s joining and splitting at Shrewsbury before continuing to Holyhead or Aberystwyth or returning to Birmingham.

The set diagrams are very intricate and maximise capacity where it is needed.
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You have answered your own question! There quite simply aren't enough trains. As it is, to provide the extra services from next month will require more efficient maintenance scheduling.

The new timetable will mean one set overnighting at Pwllheli instead of Machynlleth, but an additional set will be drafted into service from the maintenance pool for three hours for about 3 hours from 05:00 to 08:00 approximately to facilitate the extra Shrewsbury- Aberystwyth train while maintaining the Wrexham commuter service.

 

[cle]

Could they not even get to Wolverhampton, which has much better connections to London and everywhere else?

 

[craigybagel]

Could they not even get to Wolverhampton, which has much better connections to London and everywhere else?

Again, they're stretching the fleet as it is. Extend to wolves and you need to pull another unit from a hat somehow, and if they could do that there's plenty more useful places for it.

Also, wolves isn't the easiest place to turn around a train from the salop direction these days.

 

[berneyarms]

Could they not even get to Wolverhampton, which has much better connections to London and everywhere else?

There is a connecting train from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton and Birmingham for each of the extra trains from Aberystwyth as it is.

It's not as if people are being stranded.

The set off the 06:30 ex-Aberystwyth stays in Shrewsbury to strengthen the 07:30 between Shrewsbury and Birmingham. There is a connecting train from Wrexham and Crewe to Birmingham (same platform) at 08:32.

The 08:30 ex-Aberystwyth returns to Aberystwyth at 10:29. There is a connection to Birmingham International at 10:32 which splits from the Birmingham-Holyhead train.

The 12:30 ex-Aberystwyth appears to join the 11:27 from Holyhead and continues to Birmingham International.

The 18:30 ex-Aberystwyth then operates to Crewe at 20:30.

People need to appreciate that the Class 158 sets are very intensely diagrammed, with sets splitting/joining at multiple locations, and it simply isn't possible to have direct trains to everywhere.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There is a connecting train from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton and Birmingham for each of the extra trains from Aberystwyth as it is.

It's not as if people are being stranded.

The set off the 06:30 ex-Aberystwyth stays in Shrewsbury to strengthen the 07:30 between Shrewsbury and Birmingham. There is a connecting train from Wrexham and Crewe to Birmingham (same platform) at 08:32.

The 08:30 ex-Aberystwyth returns to Aberystwyth at 10:29. There is a connection to Birmingham International at 10:32 which splits from the Birmingham-Holyhead train.

The 12:30 ex-Aberystwyth appears to join the 11:27 from Holyhead and continues to Birmingham International.

The 18:30 ex-Aberystwyth then operates to Crewe at 20:30.

People need to appreciate that the Class 158 sets are very intensely diagrammed, with sets splitting/joining at multiple locations, and it simply isn't possible to have direct trains to everywhere.

Indeed but what also must be born in mind is that demand for direct trains to places like Cardiff or Wrexham from the Cambrian is very very limited. There is little point of putting through trains on and causing other services to be limited or curtailed if no one is on them. More people hang around at Shrewsbury for three quarters of hour to get on Manchester trains than travel to Cardiff despite the superb connections. The market for London and the South East is 5 times that for South Wales from the Cambrian.

We will get better connections to Wrexham this May but i bet more folk will go past it to go to Chester.

 

[merlodlliw]

Indeed but what also must be born in mind is that demand for direct trains to places like Cardiff or Wrexham from the Cambrian is very very limited. There is little point of putting through trains on and causing other services to be limited or curtailed if no one is on them. More people hang around at Shrewsbury for three quarters of hour to get on Manchester trains than travel to Cardiff despite the superb connections. The market for London and the South East is 5 times that for South Wales from the Cambrian.

We will get better connections to Wrexham this May but i bet more folk will go past it to go to Chester.

You are probably correct about Chester,No other ATW/WG station has five tocs running in differing directions.

 

[Rich McLean]

Also during the day having 2 cars vice 4 on the Shrewsbury - Birmingham section is asking for problems, so stock is needed for that.

Are any of these going to operate 2 vice 4 during the day in order to free up stock?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Also during the day having 2 cars vice 4 on the Shrewsbury - Birmingham section is asking for problems, so stock is needed for that.

Are any of these going to operate 2 vice 4 during the day in order to free up stock?

There's no reduction in capacity Shrewsbury to Birmingham.

 

[Gareth Marston]

5 days to go - the extras start on Sunday.

 

[the-gog]

Just as well the new ATW timetables came out today: http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Timetables/

 

[berneyarms]

They've been there for several weeks and were highlighted at the time on these boards.

 

[PHILIPE]

Here's some more detail on the Cambrian diagrams, see e mail reproduced below. Albert is the secretary of a SARPA and Mike is Mike Vaughan head of ATW stakeholder engagement.

Good morning, Albert

I've just had the guys here to look at this and I can confirm that the pocket timetable is correct. This was necessary to enable the 0700 Shrewsbury to Wrexham and the 0747 Wrexham to Birmingham services to 'fit'. The 158 on the Barmouth on arrival at Machynlleth goes on to shed, and the 158 on the 0630 from Aberystwyth goes on to Abbey Foregate and then attaches to the 0730 Aberystwyth to Birmingham.

I hope this provides the answers you wanted.

Best wishes ... Mike

Still being shown as a through train from Barmouth on Journey Planner (and RTT).
The question has also been asked in this lengthy thread if 05 14 from Aberystwyth is still 4 Cars and joining up at Shrewsbury with 06 40 ex Crewe to make 6 forward and I said yes. However, I have my doubts now since RTT Platform workings and stock moves have been updated. I think it is the 06 40 from Crewe that will have 4 cars, 2 off 05 34 from Shrewsbury and attaching 2 at Crewe which seem to be formed off a move from the CS. This would then provide the answer as to why the Pwllheli doesn't leave Machynlleth until 21 30Could be the stock off new 21 04 arrl from Aberystwyth with the 19 57 arrl ex Pwllheli attaching forward to 19 30 ex Aber to Shrewsbury to balance up. There is no ECS move shown directly in RTT off this at Shrewsbury but there is another unit (20 47 ex Wrexham) in Platform 4 to couple up to. I may be wrong but prefer to wait until next week to see what does happen. If the 05 14 ex Aber is in fact 2 Cars then it just adds to the suggestion that there are additional trains but not the capacity !!!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Cheers Phillipe confirms my own thoughts on it.

Here's details of the press run

Members of the press are invited to attend any of the events and to travel the line on MONDAY 18 MAY 2015 at the following times:

ABERYSTWYTH RAILWAY STATION: 1200 (train departs 1230)
MACHYNLLETH RAILWAY STATION: 12:50 (train departs 1306)
WELSHPOOL RAILWAY STATION: 13:45 (train departs 1354)
Press interviews and photo opportunities will be possible on-train. Return travel passes available on the day for members of the press covering the story.

Contact: Rhydian Mason (Cambrian Railways Partnership and Cambrian Implementation Group): 07792 319085
Email: [email protected]

 

[mikestone1952]

I was on the WAG, where standard passengers now get their meal in a box rather than on a plate, at Salop the 17.30 Aberystwyth-Inter was a single 158, as expected, despite the supposed Pwllheli portion in RTT.

 

[PHILIPE]

I was on the WAG, where standard passengers now get their meal in a box rather than on a plate, at Salop the 17.30 Aberystwyth-Inter was a single 158, as expected, despite the supposed Pwllheli portion in RTT.

There is discussion on this on the Extra Cambrian and Heart of Wales Services Experience Thread.

 

[berneyarms]

So a little over a month into the new service pattern, how have the services been doing?

Have the loadings shifted about and spread out better across the new services?

Are any of the trains under pressure in terms of excessive loadings?

 

[Gareth Marston]

The lack of publicity in advance has meant many people are unaware of the extra services or there's been misinterpretation such as folk thinking it's hourly or that all trains connect at Dovej Junction.

Traincrew I've spoken to say its been a slow start but people are now catching on to the extra trains and it's picking up.

 

[mikestone1952]

Seems to be some minor changes in December - the proof NRT pages and the ATW booklet show the 18.09 from Birmingham Int with a Pwllheli portion, SX, whereas the second set comes, or used to come, off at Salop for the 19.24 to Chester. This is now shown as through from Birmingham FO in the NRT but not in RTT or the ATW booklet.

 

[PHILIPE]

Seems to be some minor changes in December - the proof NRT pages and the ATW booklet show the 18.09 from Birmingham Int with a Pwllheli portion, SX, whereas the second set comes, or used to come, off at Salop for the 19.24 to Chester. This is now shown as through from Birmingham FO in the NRT but not in RTT or the ATW booklet.

ATW Timetable (now on line) doesn't show it neither does Journey Planner. RTT shows detachment for Pwllheli but presume error. The portion would hardly wait at Machynlleth for approx three quarters of an hour.