The Planner
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2008
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All depends on what is decided for Crewe, don't agree with the Nantwich idea with the current Crewe layout though.
This has been shared on Twitter. Northwich to Crewe with calls at Sandbach and Middlewich was possible in 23 minutes under L&NW on a service between Manchester Oxford Road and London Euston via Old Trafford, Northwich and Birmingham!
Two hours to get from Birmingham to Crewe??? Clearly there are some things that have improved! And those restrictions on who can get on where depending where they're getting off and the need to tell someone if you're getting on at certain stations makes today's ticketing rules sound positively simple!
I'm not sure that having one train a day that gets into London after the only through return train has left would go down well in today's World (note that the later train from London is change at Crewe). Wonder how long ago that timetable was from?
Two hours to get from Birmingham to Crewe??? Clearly there are some things that have improved! And those restrictions on who can get on where depending where they're getting off and the need to tell someone if you're getting on at certain stations makes today's ticketing rules sound positively simple!
Pre-Grouping, the CLC line through Northwich was owned jointly by the LNW's arch rivals the Midland, GC & GN. So I imagine there were some tricky negotiations over the running rights for this service!
Which presumably explains the picking-up/setting-down restrictions at Hale.
The LNWR had running powers between Hartford and Altrincham.
Which presumably explains the picking-up/setting-down restrictions at Hale.
The LNWR had running powers between Hartford and Altrincham.
Wonder how long ago that timetable was from?
What did people think of the article about us in the latest edition of RAIL?
Looks like Knutsford will be reclassified as C2. Passenger numbers are up at Northwich and Altrincham too
I thought the Manchester Airport connection was a dream too far, but other than that it seemed pretty good. If even half of the onward connections mentioned there end up working it'd be a worthwhile scheme.
With the frequency of semi-fast services between Chester and Manchester doubling from next year, as well as the new Greenbank-Manchester service starting, I wonder whether the existing Chester-Manchester stopping service via Northwich could be put to better use? Would it be worth reopening Middlewich Station and diverting the current Mid-Cheshire stopper into Crewe, with calls at Middlewich and Sandbach? The saving on the journey time would of course free up DMUs which could be used to ensure all of the Greenbank services run with at least 4 coaches.
Would the towns at the western end of the Mid-Cheshire line benefit more from a new, quick and direct service to Middlewich, Sandbach and Crewe? Also remember that it may be quicker for passengers at the western end to make a change at Chester for Manchester, rather than use the current tortuous direct service.
It's also pretty shambolic that a town the size of Middlewich doesn't have a rail service, despite the track being there and operational.
This thread is not the place for the Middlewhich debate again!
Yes it would probably have the best BCR out there but there appears to be a lack of political support (and much much more for things like HS2, Metrolink extensions and 'Northern Powerhouse Rail'). The line is painfully slow and the service is now comitted to run to Greenbank (Chester at peak times) and not Middlewhich. Winsford is very close to the town, and Sandbach station (in Elworth) not much further.
Going to Winsford and Sandbach will be ok for some people, but what about those who don't drive?
I'm not sure you understand the plans for Mid-Cheshire changes (which have been delayed until May 2018 despite being specified from December 2017 in the franchise agreement.)
At off-peak times the plan is to speed up the Chester to Manchester via Altrincham services by missing out some stations and an additional Greenbank to Manchester service providing a much needed additional train between the Northwich area and Manchester and picking up the stations the Chester to Manchester trains will no longer call at.
There will be no additional services towards Stockport in the morning peak or away from Stockport in the evening peak but the existing Stockport will be extended to Manchester and there will be 2tph in the 'counter peak flow direction' which is actually even busier than the 'peak flow direction.'
If you start re-routing the Chester service via a much longer route then stations like Stockport and Altrincham will no longer have a service which gets to Chester in a reasonable journey time and Delamere Forest and other villages will be left without a service at all.
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but as its in the same sort of area, the line which links the Mid Cheshire Line to WCML before Acton Bridge, surely this would be a very useful piece of line to have a passenger service over now.
Thinking of links to Warrington, Runcorn, Liverpool.
I know about the plans for the Mid-Cheshire line and I'm not suggesting to reduce the number of services on it, just to restructure. Regarding your point about Stockport; I'm sure most passengers will continue to change at Piccadilly as they do now.
The Chester service may be speeded up a bit, but it'll still be slow and quicker going via Warrington; the line speed is a big stumbling block. Is there really huge demand for direct services between Manchester/Stockport and Cuddington, Delamere and Mouldsworth (considering they can change at Chester or Greenbank)?
Maybe an option to be considered could be joining up the Lime Street to Bank Quay stopper and the future Greenbank to Manchester stopper using a 769 Flex?
Currently most passengers from Chester/The Wirral heading towards Sheffield/South Yorkshire use the Northern service between Chester and Stockport because the Mid-Cheshire services are well timed to connect with South TPE (eastbound) and Norwich to Liverpool (westbound) while the ATW service offers very poor connections with Sheffield services at Piccadilly.
It's not the line speed that's the stumbling block - Chester to Warrington to Manchester doesn't exactly have very fast trains - it's the indirect route especially with the services no longer being able to run via Sale.
Chester to Manchester via Warrington almost takes as long as Cuddington to Manchester. Considering Cuddington is 25 minutes from Chester and Chester to Manchester trains will only be half-hourly even after the Northern Connect service starts, travelling via Chester could almost double the journey time.
However, instead of trying to claim people aren't making journeys which they are, can you clarify your idea.
If you start with:
Greenbank-Manchester stopper
Chester-Altrincham-Manchester semi-fast
And re-route the latter to be via Middlewich and Crewe, then there would be no trains running between Greenbank and Chester as well almost doubling the journey time between Northwich and Chester by train. Is that seriously what you are suggesting? Or are you proposing to use an additional train or two so they'll be two trains per hour between Northwich and Chester - one via Delamere and one via Middlewich?
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but as its in the same sort of area, the line which links the Mid Cheshire Line to WCML before Acton Bridge, surely this would be a very useful piece of line to have a passenger service over now.
Thinking of links to Warrington, Runcorn, Liverpool.
No I'm suggesting the semi-fast service be replaced by a Chester-Mouldsworth-Delamere-Cuddington-Greenbank-Northwich-Middlewich-Sandbach-Crewe shuttle service. The eastern half of the line could then be served solely by the Greenbank-Manchester all stops service, with all of the Manchester trains running in double or even triple formation.
No I'm suggesting the semi-fast service be replaced by a Chester-Mouldsworth-Delamere-Cuddington-Greenbank-Northwich-Middlewich-Sandbach-Crewe shuttle service. The eastern half of the line could then be served solely by the Greenbank-Manchester all stops service, with all of the Manchester trains running in double or even triple formation.
Maybe an option to be considered could be joining up the Lime Street to Bank Quay stopper and the future Greenbank to Manchester stopper using a 769 Flex?
The WCML is only double track for the couple of miles between Acton Bridge and Weaver Jn. Would there be suitable paths available for a Northern service in between all the VTWC, LM and freight trains?