Can a train be formed of 3 DMUs?

[43074]

I was at New Street a couple of years ago and 4x2 car 170s arrived ECS from Tyseley I assume.

I'm sure when the 172s were introduced on Chiltern Railways there was a regular diagram for 3 of the 4 units to work together in public use. I can't remember on which service this was, but oh well.

There's an image of 4 220 Voyagers testing in multiple on the ECML. Probably the only (and final) time this is likely to happen.

More recently in Anglia, a couple of years ago (2011 perhaps) there was 1 170/2 2 car and 2 170/2 3 car units forming one service. IIRC it was for the Lowestoft Airshow.

 

[fordylad]

The maximum for 165/6 is 12 car formations . This is due to the loss electrical power through the couplers

 

[455driver]

OP here. Yes, in other words.

Subject to one or two technicalities obscure to the general public?

Yes, mainly subject to the number of cabs in the formation (even a cab which is shut down will use some of the limited 110v control supply) plus some other bits as well.


Look what you have started now though!

 

[driver9000]

It is the number of cabs not units that is the governing factor on length of trains (DMU)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As quoted above the reason for this with a 153 is that it has 2 cabs and one coach

It doesn't necessarily have to be a cab. The MS of a 144 or 158 counts as a 'cab' for the purposes of determining the maximum length of a DMU train due to them having control equipment for the engine etc.

 

[ash39]

Sorry about the quality, it's just a photo of a photo. Here's the 8 car 158 I mentioned on page 1. I can see now that York was the destination (thought it was Middlesbrough)

 

[Liam]

There's a picture of a 12-car 156 unit on a bridge floating around somewhere.

There is one of a few 156's on Culloden Viaduct.

Aren't some of the Glasgow-East Kilbride peak services formed of 3 or more 156's?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

SWT quite often have 9-car (159+159+159) or 8-car (159+159+158) services. In addition, Northern often have 156+142+142 running on the Huddersfield-Manchester Victoria line (though in that case at least one of the units is locked out).

I'm pretty sure there's one peak time SWT diagram that is 159 + 159 + 158 + 158.

 

[Dieseldriver]

0645 from Salisbury to Waterloo, 1 x 159 comes up from Yeovil and attatches to 1 x 159 + 2 x 158s.

 

[D6975]

When the 158s were new, BR ran a 12coach 158 special for staff 6x2 car. There was a shot of it in Rail magazine at the time.

 

[TEW]

The most unusual I've ever had is 3 153s and 1 143. The pair of 153s rescued the 153+143 formation which had failed and they all worked in service back to Exeter before being split and ran onto the depot. Also had 3 150s and 1 153 in service the day after Boxing Day.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'm pretty sure that with the Sprinter BSI-type couplers (used by 142/3/4, 150/3/5/6/8/9 and 170s/172s) there is a maximum of 4 units which can couple. For some reason, a 170 with a centre car counts as 2 - so you can have 2 x 3-car 170 (but no more) or 1 x 3-car 170 + 1 x 2-car 170 + 158 (but nothing more).

There are exceptions as to what can couple with what. Only suitably modified 156 units can couple with 170s and 172s - which excludes any of the ones allocated to Northern Spirit and North Western Trains at privatisation (so the entire Northern fleet plus the 4 units cascaded to EMT).

Pacers aren't allowed to couple to Turbostars, but that's probably to do with the fact they've never had to before, so they've never been tested.

Emergency recovery procedures apply if a 170 is rescuing a failed 14X. At least that's what it says in the cab under the couple buttons.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Southern have ran 3 171s in multiple on the Oxted line before (1 4-car unit, 2 2-car units).

I'd be surprised if Southern ran this formation down to Uckfield as it would cause big issues for the passengers in the rear unit. The intervening stations between Hurst Green and Uckfield all have short platforms. Most being 5 and Crowborough the longest at 6. Therefore in one direction the people in the rear unit wouldnt be able to get out anywhere between Hurst Green and Uckfield.

 

[Polarbear]

In BR day's, I recall seeing many different lash up's of 1st generation DMU's, especially on summer reliefs.

I do remember coming back from a day out in York in the mid 1980's & having such a relief train to Manchester - 7 DMU cars made up of classes 101 (1 x 2 car), 104 (1 x 3 car) & 105 (1 x 2 car). I think I was sat in the 104.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The 1007 from Machynlleth to Birmingham International every weekday is a six car (3 x 158) formation, 2 ex 0720 from Pwllheli and 4 form 0930 ex Aberystwyth. The 1309 Birmingham International to Holyhead is six as far as Shrewsbury.

 

[itsjamierawr]

I'm pretty sure from Shrewsbury to Machynlleth one time I had 4x 158 (making it 8 carriages), it could've been 6 and I miscounted but it was a busy service, obviously they split there to go one half to Aberystwyth and the other to Pwlleli

 

[Silv1983]

Every weeknight there's a mish mash of Northern units tied up at Preston at about 01:30 to run ECS to Newton Heath. It's a random splice of 142s and 15x's. Im pretty certain the last one I took was a 142 dragging 2 150s and a 156 on the end. Im sure they occasionally max out at 12 cars when there's no 142s spoiling the mix.

 

[PHILIPE]

One Saturday evening last year the 19 40 Ebbw Vale to Cardiff was formed 153+150+153+150+142. The route is often made up to 4 Cars on a Saturday and in this case the previous train had failed and aunable to move without assistance.

 

[dubscottie]

During the first 158 delivery runs from Derby to Haymarket 4x class 158 + 3 car 154 (now back to 150001 or 002) were the norm. 11 cars in total. The 154 was needed as the 158's didn't activate track circuits at the time. Have a pic in a mag of such passing Leeds.

 

[Aictos]

IIRC you can't operate in DOO mode with more than 8 cars too.

That might be the case elsewhere but FCC certainly seem to cope with 12 Car DOO services on both the GN and TL routes so I would query that statement.

 

[Buttsy]

There are pictures in the early days of 150/2s working over the Diggle route as 8 cars (4x2 car 150/2s). I think this was before the introduction of 156s.

 

[pemma]

There are pictures in the early days of 150/2s working over the Diggle route as 8 cars (4x2 car 150/2s). I think this was before the introduction of 156s.

Holyhead-Scarborough used to be lots of 150s joined up east of Manchester but they got split up/joined up at Manchester.

I'm not sure the 3+2 seating would have been popular with people travelling between Wales and Yorkshire.

 

[jopsuk]

That might be the case elsewhere but FCC certainly seem to cope with 12 Car DOO services on both the GN and TL routes so I would query that statement.

I queried it as well- I suspect it may be a Chiltern local rule/agreement with unions. GA also run 12 car DOO on the West Anglia and I think Great Eastern routes.

 

[RPM]

I queried it as well- I suspect it may be a Chiltern local rule/agreement with unions. GA also run 12 car DOO on the West Anglia and I think Great Eastern routes.

Yes, must be a local rule then.

 

[TEW]

Southern have a similar agreement, 12 car services on the BML have to have guard when 8 car services can run DOO.

 

[JonathanH]

Southern have a similar agreement, 12 car services on the BML have to have guard when 8 car services can run DOO.

9 (3x377/3) and 10 coach (2x442) also run DOO on the BML

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The most unusual I've ever had is 3 153s and 1 143. The pair of 153s rescued the 153+143 formation which had failed and they all worked in service back to Exeter before being split and ran onto the depot. Also had 3 150s and 1 153 in service the day after Boxing Day.

Used to be Wales and West 4 x 153 combo on a Saturday to Exeter - which was formed up of all 4 liveries !

 

[PHILIPE]

Used to be Wales and West 4 x 153 combo on a Saturday to Exeter - which was formed up of all 4 liveries !

I posted this a couple of days ago but did not mention liveries.

 

[12CSVT]

In BR day's, I recall seeing many different lash up's of 1st generation DMU's, especially on summer reliefs.

I do remember coming back from a day out in York in the mid 1980's & having such a relief train to Manchester - 7 DMU cars made up of classes 101 (1 x 2 car), 104 (1 x 3 car) & 105 (1 x 2 car). I think I was sat in the 104.

Some summer Saturday workings on the North Wales Coast were booked 12 cars (and often had a mixture of classes 100, 101, 103, 104, 108, possibly class 105 and 116).

Longest DMU formation I am aware of was four 4 car BRCW class 104 units (ie, 16 cars) being delivered new to the North Eastern Region

 

[hick]

Yes, must be a local rule then.

Chiltern is 7 car DOO due to sighting issues. A trial of an 8 car was performed at Wembley Stadium, but with only look back/mirrors, the visibility wasn't good enough at the rear of the train. With CCTV this would presumably be resolvable as some key stations are already 8 cars and there are tentative plans to extend some heartlands platforms to 9 cars (although the source of that escapes me at the moment!).

 

[341o2]

going back to first generation DMU's, suburban services out of Kings Cross were worked by 2 car Cravens units, so I wonder what the maximum number of these units coupled together has been