Can anyone work out why assessments are done this way?

[K086]

Just been to my assessment day today and wanted to ask why this TOC is doing things like this, because quite frankly it seems like a waste of my time.

They start with a group exercise and once completed, you move onto written assessments which take a further 3 hours........

In order to pass, you need to firstly be successful in the group stage criteria AND the written assessments, which if you pass both you will move onto interview stage.......

What I cannot understand is why when you fail the group stage (which is what happened today)
why can't a TOC tell you there and then, instead of making you do tests that are completely irrelevant at that stage?

They are a complete waste of my day, because you have already failed, so cannot see why TOCS put you through unnecessary things and make you do tests that don't matter?

 

[Sirgerbil]

Just been to my assessment day today and wanted to ask why this TOC is doing things like this, because quite frankly it seems like a waste of my time.

They start with a group exercise and once completed, you move onto written assessments which take a further 3 hours........

In order to pass, you need to firstly be successful in the group stage criteria AND the written assessments, which if you pass both you will move onto interview stage.......

What I cannot understand is why when you fail the group stage (which is what happened today)
why can't a TOC tell you there and then, instead of making you do tests that are completely irrelevant at that stage?

They are a complete waste of my day, because you have already failed, so cannot see why TOCS put you through unnecessary things and make you do tests that don't matter?

Most TOC's do this, It's not uncommon to have the tests split in to two sessions. There's no national standard "Group Exercise" so you may find that was TOC specific which means it's only one strike with that TOC for that test, you may have passed the others which count towards the national standard tests.

I wouldn't really call it a "Waste" of your day, you were going for a job that I assume you've wanted for a long time.

 

[TTDARL]

As said above, many TOCS do it this way. It could also give the candidates that passed the group exercise a false sense of security for the written testing part of the assessment. They would obviously see people leaving that failed the group exercise stage and may become over confident as they have passed and that may affect their written assessments. TOCS like to keep the whole day very neutral for the candidates (giving nothing away as to whether one has failed or passed for this reason.)
Depending on the TOC and tests done, they may count towards the recruitment process in the future for some TOCS.

 

[Dynamonic]

You’ll probably find that your overall performance is discussed amongst recruiting managers after the assessment day.
If more that one Manager was assessing your performance in the group assessments, they may have differing opinions about you.
The reason they get you to do the full day, is likely to allow time for the managers to discuss your performance and compare you to the other candidates.

 

[EastMidsMatt]

I also think that you are feeling quite raw right now, give yourself a chance to get over the disappointment and you might feel less frustrated with the process.
No matter which way they conduct the recruitment process they will never satisfy everyone, it's just how it is I'm afraid.

 

[Val3ntine]

Another reason as someone already mentioned above is that TOCs usually split assesments into sessions. So until all set tests in one session have been completed, they may not even have looked at or marked anything to even know if you failed any part.

 

[ZFE95]

Perhaps they don't want a train driver who can't concentrate for longer than 10 minutes and/or can't remember detail. You'll probably find that each module the train drivers assessment has, links to the role in some way or another.

 

[tsr]

You're sometimes assessed outside the exam room as much as you are when you're inside it.

In other words, some TOCs will be very picky about the behaviours you and others show when waiting for the tests, talking to others, moving around the building and so on. The people you talk to at the coffee machine or who dash for the lift at the same time are sometimes people who will be observing you quite closely. Remember, for many TOC recruitment staff at larger operators, assessment and candidate selection is all they're ever involved in - so they do this day in, day out and know how to play a reasonably long game.

For my current job, the waiting time vastly exceeded the tests, and the sequence of the tests resulted in only gradual elimination. I am convinced that those who got the job were also those who behaved in the most positive ways outside the conference room that they were testing people in. Some of those people had a struggle through certain bits of the formal testing procedure, but has now not only done a couple of years in the position they were initially tested for, but also moved on from that job to several interesting positions which certainly show aptitude in the industry.

 

[choochoochoo]

Just been to my assessment day today and wanted to ask why this TOC is doing things like this, because quite frankly it seems like a waste of my time.

They start with a group exercise and once completed, you move onto written assessments which take a further 3 hours........

In order to pass, you need to firstly be successful in the group stage criteria AND the written assessments, which if you pass both you will move onto interview stage.......

What I cannot understand is why when you fail the group stage (which is what happened today)
why can't a TOC tell you there and then, instead of making you do tests that are completely irrelevant at that stage?

They are a complete waste of my day, because you have already failed, so cannot see why TOCS put you through unnecessary things and make you do tests that don't matter?

Curious to know what TOCS are now doing group exercise for driver roles? I thought this was always the realm of warm fuzzy Vtec recruitment.

 

[Dynamonic]

Curious to know what TOCS are now doing group exercise for driver roles? I thought this was always the realm of warm fuzzy Vtec recruitment.

East Midlands Trains use them now.

Personally, I think they’re a great idea; picking out the team players and value driven candidates.

 

[TTDARL]

It is well known that train driver recruitment attracts a quantity of “loners” that are not team players and can not communicate confidently in groups or in fact interact with others. And in groups some can be unnecessarily overbearing towards others or completely quiet and not participating. So a group exercise is a good way to measure these traits. After all, working in the railway is a “group” occupation. You work with / communicate with management, signallers, colleagues, control, depot staff, station staff, etcetcetc

 

[warrior33]

Another thing you may find is that they await for the group activity to be done, then do a base score that they work out from the average scores. Happens a lot with psychometric testing.

 

[sw1ller]

Have I missed something here? Where was the mention the OP went for a train driver role? Sounds very much like a TM job I went for years ago. The tests for that lasted a good 3 hours. My tests for train driver lasted over 5 hours. I see no mention of what job they went for.

 

[choochoochoo]

Have I missed something here? Where was the mention the OP went for a train driver role? Sounds very much like a TM job I went for years ago. The tests for that lasted a good 3 hours. My tests for train driver lasted over 5 hours. I see no mention of what job they went for.

I suspect the OP was referring to a TM role. But as an aside I was curious which TOCs did this type of assessment for driving grades.

 

[baz962]

I suspect the OP was referring to a TM role. But as an aside I was curious which TOCs did this type of assessment for driving grades.

Vtec do a group assessment instead of dmi for driving.

 

[sw1ller]

I suspect the OP was referring to a TM role. But as an aside I was curious which TOCs did this type of assessment for driving grades.

I was more referring to post #7 ZFE95, which in turn made me interprete your post wrongly. I apologise.

 

[choochoochoo]

Vtec do a group assessment instead of dmi for driving.

That's interesting. I think I'd rather have a DMI. I always like to meet the people who will end up being my direct bosses. Gives me the chance to figure out if we'll get along. Interviews work both ways.

Do VTEC candidates get that opportunity before getting an offer ?

 

[Bromley boy]

It is well known that train driver recruitment attracts a quantity of “loners” that are not team players and can not communicate confidently in groups or in fact interact with others.

And if you weren't like that before you soon will be when you start doing the job.

Yes the job involves some interaction with other staff but it is communication skills rather than teamwork that come to the fore here. Situations where train drivers are required work as part of a team in the traditional sense of a group of people trying to achieve a common objective are virtually non-existent.

A far bigger challenge is spending hours on your own without speaking to a soul, and coping with the isolation that shift work can bring.

Personally I think group tests are a bit of a waste of time for the role but of course HR have to justify their existence somehow and they are increasingly a hoop that needs to be jumped through.

 

[choochoochoo]

And if you weren't like that before you soon will be when you start doing the job.

Yes the job involves some interaction with other staff but it is communication skills rather than teamwork that come to the fore here. Situations where train drivers are required work as part of a team in the traditional sense of a group of people trying to achieve a common objective are virtually non-existent.

A far bigger challenge is spending hours on your own without speaking to a soul, and coping with the isolation that shift work can bring.

Personally I think group tests are a bit of a waste of time for the role but of course HR have to justify their existence somehow and they are increasingly a hoop that needs to be jumped through.

Completely agree

Drivers are part of a team, but our primary role of operating a train isn't a group activity. So usual teamwork dynamics assessed in these type of assessments really doesn't apply. I feel it's more important for drivers to see the bigger picture in how their actions/decisions affect others.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

And if you weren't like that before you soon will be when you start doing the job.

Yes the job involves some interaction with other staff but it is communication skills rather than teamwork that come to the fore here. Situations where train drivers are required work as part of a team in the traditional sense of a group of people trying to achieve a common objective are virtually non-existent.

A far bigger challenge is spending hours on your own without speaking to a soul, and coping with the isolation that shift work can bring.

Completely agree

Drivers are part of a team, but our primary role of operating a train isn't a group activity. So usual teamwork dynamics assessed in these type of assessments really doesn't apply. I feel it's more important for drivers to see the bigger picture in how their actions/decisions affect others.

All that may be true in DOO-land but elsewhere you'll find there most certainly is a degree of teamwork between drivers and guards even if mostly in unofficial ways. And at some locations between drivers and station supervisors. Having a sense of teamwork also helps somewhat when dealing with rostering clerks or traincrew supervisors.

 

[Andy-mc]

No need to feel like you wasted your day, take it as an experience that will help prepare yourself if such an opportunity comes up again

There are aspects of group excersizes which could be useful as a driver, mainly how you interact with others and also weather you are willing to listen to other people’s opinions or ideas, but I agree there maybe shouldn’t be as much emphasis on it compared to other qualities

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Just been to my assessment day today and wanted to ask why this TOC is doing things like this, because quite frankly it seems like a waste of my time.

They start with a group exercise and once completed, you move onto written assessments which take a further 3 hours........

In order to pass, you need to firstly be successful in the group stage criteria AND the written assessments, which if you pass both you will move onto interview stage.......

What I cannot understand is why when you fail the group stage (which is what happened today)
why can't a TOC tell you there and then, instead of making you do tests that are completely irrelevant at that stage?

They are a complete waste of my day, because you have already failed, so cannot see why TOCS put you through unnecessary things and make you do tests that don't matter?

I'm sure u were on here the other day giving off about how long a pass was valid and why did u need to do it again? Well, i'm sorry u failed but this proves u need to remain focused on the task in hand rather than why the task is needed. The railway recruits heavily from the police, prison service, fire service, and military; ie people who follow rules and regulations and do not ask WHY?

You're sometimes assessed outside the exam room as much as you are when you're inside it.

In other words, some TOCs will be very picky about the behaviours you and others show when waiting for the tests, talking to others, moving around the building and so on. The people you talk to at the coffee machine or who dash for the lift at the same time are sometimes people who will be observing you quite closely. Remember, for many TOC recruitment staff at larger operators, assessment and candidate selection is all they're ever involved in - so they do this day in, day out and know how to play a reasonably long game.

This is undeniably true. At one assessment i went to a few years ago a bloke sat on his own in the corner at break time jacking off to youtube videos of Deltics at Speed and didn't talk to anyone. He didn't get a job.

 

[superhands]

The fact is the Group exercise the poster was talking about was not for a Driver role!
Virgin West coast used to and I think still does used Group exercise for customer service roles and a few intercity TOC use them now.
The question is how can you mark a group exercise ?

 

[ComUtoR]

The question is how can you mark a group exercise ?

You are mainly looking for specific traits. Leadership etc. That isn't something that can be marked or assessed using 'traditional' methods. It is a subjective test so there is a bias involved but it can still be an effective method to judge a candidate, especially when you are simulating a situation where a candidate may actually come across in their role. It can still be 'scored' using a scale or even scored using a checklist with specific criteria they are looking for. 'did the candidate use positive language' 'did the candidate use open questions' 'did the candidate resolve the customers issue' etc etc.

It's worth noting that this also happens in the driving grade. We use the simulator and often it is in a group situation where others may be observing and it leads to group discussion. My last group sim day was scored quire thoroughly and my assessor gave a write up on each part of the day and scored me on various traits. That was then sent to my Manager. Which also ties in with the theory that your results may go to a panel to discuss your results, scores and observations.

 

[superhands]

Sims at my place are one to one also scored, if you fail the assessment you are off trains.
Also one of the group exercises with west coast was a discussion on smoking, and the other was you are in a ship wreck and you only have a few spaces on the life boat and you have to decide who gets to go on the lifeboat another variation was that you were trapped in a underground cave.

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Sims at my place are one to one also scored, if you fail the assessment you are off trains.
Also one of the group exercises with west coast was a discussion on smoking, and the other was you are in a ship wreck and you only have a few spaces on the life boat and you have to decide who gets to go on the lifeboat another variation was that you were trapped in a underground cave.

These stuck in a cave/desert island/jungle ones are very common and easy to prepare for. The latest trend for TM roles is, as mentioned above, to provoke discussion on topical news/social/political issues such as smoking, abortion, globalisation, Brexit etc. Aside from how you conduct yourself in a group setting, TOCs want to employ rounded candidates who can hold a conversation on a wide range of subjects with a broad spectrum of people on board.