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Can ticket barriers be programmed to recognise a lost or stolen season ticket?

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3141

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Is it possible to programme all the ticket barriers between one station and another (say Paddington to Reading) so that if a season ticket between those two stations is reported lost or stolen and someone else tries to use it, the barrier would either reject the ticket, or swallow it and not return it?

In the latest issue of Which (known in our household as Whinge) the chief executive describes difficulties getting a replacement season ticket for his daughter after she lost it for a second time in twelve months. This was because the rule is that only one duplicate will normally be allowed for any lost or stolen season ticket.

He eventually got a replacement because the ticket had been renewed at some date after the first loss and replacement, so his daughter started again with a clean slate. This seems to be the correct and reasonable outcome.

But he and his daughter were told that no more than two duplicates could be issued in twelve months, and he considers this is unfair. He argues that as the season ticket must be used with a photocard that reduces the chances of anyone else getting away with using a lost or stolen ticket.

I doubt that last point, because I expect that anyone who checks tickets looks mainly at the expiry date and the route, and if they are OK he or she moves on to the next passenger. Checking photocards would take extra time, and if the season ticket was in the name of a woman it would be difficult to challenge the identity of another woman of similar age and general appearance who might be using it dishonestly. Women are quite likely to alter their appearance during twelve months by a changing their hair style or its colour, and men may also change appearance if they grow a beard or shave one off.

But if it is possible to tell all the ticket barriers at stations along the route of a lost season ticket not to open if the lost ticket is inserted, or to accept the ticket but not return it, then a lost or stolen season would be no use to anyone else.

The incident does raise other questions about the importance of taking care of valuable property which may be difficult to replace, or insuring it against loss or theft.

Edited because I made a mistake in the original thread title.
 
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maniacmartin

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I doubt that this can be done with the current technology. As far as I know, a blacklist of bad serial number isn't downloaded to gatelines every day as happens with Oyster tickets (which can be replaced).

The PDF in this thread may be of interest - there is currently no code mentioned for blacklisted tickets
 

VTPreston_Tez

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I doubt that this can be done with the current technology. As far as I know, a blacklist of bad serial number isn't downloaded to gatelines every day as happens with Oyster tickets (which can be replaced).

The PDF in this thread may be of interest - there is currently no code mentioned for blacklisted tickets

I agree fully, however in the future I think it would be a fantastic proposition for the UK's railway.
 

Deerfold

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Is it possible to programme all the ticket barriers between one station and another (say Paddington to Reading) so that if a season ticket between those two stations is reported lost or stolen and someone else tries to use it, the barrier would either reject the ticket, or swallow it and not return it?

The only way I can see you being able to do that is if it's a really uncommon season ticket - you'd have to block all season tickets between those two locations. Can't see that happening with Paddington - Reading.
 

47513 Severn

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Sorry to sound harsh but the answer is just to take care of valuable things like season tickets, plain and simple. It amazes me how many people manage to lose things like bank cards with astonishing frequency (as in genuinely misplace, not the "I've got a payday loan repayment due" type of lost card). I've never lost a bank card or season ticket in my life because I realise the value of them and the hassle that would be follow losing one.

Just as with that old favourite topic about a system for 'proving' forgotten railcards, why can't people just remember them or take the knock if they do forget. Why are the railways branded unfair when they don't roll over to accommodate peoples carelessness and stupidity?

Just my view...

47513
 

wibble

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Is it possible to programme all the ticket barriers between one station and another (say Paddington to Reading) so that if a season ticket between those two stations is reported lost or stolen and someone else tries to use it, the barrier would either reject the ticket, or swallow it and not return it?

For paper tickets with a magnetic strip, it's a no. The gates are only able to check the ticket against a set of origin/destination, date, time, route, discount criteria and before accepting or rejecting the ticket.

Oystercards and Smartcards are a bit clever as you can hotlist a card which can then be disabled when someone attempts to use it a ticket gates. The plus side is that the TOC could hotlist your stolen card and re-issue a replacement without quibble(!)
 

3141

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Thanks to everyone who's responded to my post.

Since the DfT has ambitions to extend the use of smart cards for train journeys (though it's taking longer than they seem to have expected) I conclude that one day it will be possible to block the use of a lost or stolen season ticket.

In the original post I tried to present the situation in a neutral way, but I agree with much of what 47513 Severn says. However, in practice some things will get lost, not always through gross carelessness, and sometimes as a result of theft which an ordinary person would probably not have foreseen - I remember once watching a TV programme which showed thieves cunningly shifting a bag someone had placed beside them until it was far enough away from its owner for the thief to be able to pick it up as he walked out. So in such cases it seems to me very reasonable for the TOC to offer a replacement. It also seems reasonable to expect the ticket-owner would take extra care after losing it once, and to take steps such as insuring against loss in case they lose it again.

But that doesn't appear to be the view of the Chief Executive of Which...
 

steadmane

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If there was no carelessness and stupidity then the insurance industry would fall apart! People lose things, it's human nature. If you are providing a card which allows thousands of pounds worth of travel you need to have backup plans should that card be lost. The credit card industry has them, the difference being that the benefit-of-loss is with the credit card holder whereas a rail season ticket it is with the Operator. Whether the current replacement system is any good is another matter. I guess they don't want to do much and await the move to Smart.
 

maniacmartin

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What would be nice is if you could pay the price of an annual season ticket, then have the option of getting 12 "monthly seasons". Similar to a 2-Part return, but 12-part annual seasons. That way you could leave the one for future ones at home and only carry the current one, which if lost isn't as great a problem as losing 12 months of validity.

Obviously all parts without remaining validity would need to be presented to do a refund or changeover, and in NSE only one could be a Gold Card.

I doubt a solution like this will be implemented, given that ATOCs main focus in developments this area is smartcards.
 

bb21

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What would be nice is if you could pay the price of an annual season ticket, then have the option of getting 12 "monthly seasons". Similar to a 2-Part return, but 12-part annual seasons. That way you could leave the one for future ones at home and only carry the current one, which if lost isn't as great a problem as losing 12 months of validity.

I expect instances of "sorry guvna, forgot to swap my tickets last night" to shoot up as a result. ;)
 

Clip

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Its not really the gate line that is the issue here as you can programme it to read anything. Its about the info actually printed on the ticket that you would need to adjust
 

wibble

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What would be nice is if you could pay the price of an annual season ticket, then have the option of getting 12 "monthly seasons". Similar to a 2-Part return, but 12-part annual seasons. That way you could leave the one for future ones at home and only carry the current one, which if lost isn't as great a problem as losing 12 months of validity.

That wouldn't work either - the gates would only check for a season ticket's expiry date so you would effectively hold 12 anual season tickets.
 

jon0844

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Some TOCs issue monthly tickets, and give you a month free at the end. Not quite as good as an annual (2 months free + Gold Card benefits in the NSE area) but an option if you're worried that you might lose them.

Can you not insure the ticket on your home insurance? As soon as I made a claim, I'd be looking to do this because the T&Cs are quite clear - even if people don't like them.
 
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