Car crashes into Virgin Voyager at level crossing in Lanarkshire

[gimmea50anyday]

See the clowns on voyager preservation society facebook making a joke about this incident.When I mentioned the seriousness of this incident I got chastised for not having a sense of humour. Looking at that page its clearly being run by someone seriously lacking in maturity, physically and mentally. Making pages like that will bring any serious preservation attempt into disrepute with the kind of posts beng put on there.

Glad to hear no one was injured. This could so easily have been another copmanthorpe.

 

[tellytype]

Just how DO you "turn onto" a railway "by accident"?

Surely the fact that there are rails glinting back at you instead of a road is a massive clue!

I had formed the opinion of late that most drives are stupid but this takes it to a whole new level!

 

[najaB]

Just how DO you "turn onto" a railway "by accident"?

Surely the fact that there are rails glinting back at you instead of a road is a massive clue!

By the time the headlight hits the rails, it's already too late.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Just how DO you "turn onto" a railway "by accident"?

Surely the fact that there are rails glinting back at you instead of a road is a massive clue!

I had formed the opinion of late that most drivers are stupid but this takes it to a whole new level!

I wonder if there might have been a SatNav involved?

Please don't get me started on stupid drivers... the things I see on my ten minute walk to and from work each day are bloodcurdling and worthy of a thread in themselves.

 

[najaB]

I wonder if there might have been a SatNav involved?

There's no junction, so unlikely - though not impossible.

 

[HH]

That photo is from Oct 2008; in eight years it's certainly possibly they've largely been eroded away.

And the chevron boards on the corner? One shouldn't speculate, I know, but I wonder if the driver was breathalysed?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There's no junction, so unlikely - though not impossible.

There are, however, driveways and yards close by on either side of the crossing.

A further thought - was the car approaching from the east of the west side of the crossing?

A "straight ahead" instruction could conceivably lead to this error if it was an approach from the west, given the bend.

Whereas if it was an easterly approach, the bend is right after the crossing and might show up on a satnav as a turn to the right.

Either way - it is possible.

This assumes I am looking at the correct crossing on Google Maps!

 

[QueensCurve]

They're an idiot. Take away their licence. Understood and prevented.

So blame and punish the driver, the one person who would almost certainly never make the same mistake again.

Meanwhile someone else who has never done it before does it at another crossing potentially with disastrous consequences. This is the second time we are discussing a similar incident in the last few weeks. We will be discussing another one soon enough.

The old-fashioned level crossing gates closed against the railway when open to the road. They presented a red disc to road trafic either way. Perhaps this is a better design which could prevent future incidents of this type.

 

[HH]

So blame and punish the driver, the one person who would almost certainly never make the same mistake again.

Would you take the same attitude if it had led to deaths? If not, why not?

 

[najaB]

Would you take the same attitude if it had led to deaths? If not, why not?

I don't want to put words into QueensCurve's mouth, but I took from his post that it isn't enough to simply blame the driver for making a poor decision, job done. Those in charge also need to look at why the driver made that decision. There may be factors about the design/layout/signage that will lead others to make the same decision - and we might not be so lucky next time.

 

[QueensCurve]

Would you take the same attitude if it had led to deaths? If not, why not?

Yes I would. The question is how we prevent further occurences. I would want to take that action before there is a similar event leading to deaths.

 

[Dvorak]

How long before the train is due to pass do the barriers come down?

Looking at the junction is streetview and the accident picture, I'd surmise that the car was likely to be coming from the west and failed to make the turn, ending up on the railway. Crossing lights would be visible from around 150m away. Therefore they probably ended up on the tracks well before the train was due. I wonder if the car then became stuck, perhaps grounded on top of the rail?

 

[QueensCurve]

I don't want to put words into QueensCurve's mouth, but I took from his post that it isn't enough to simply blame the driver for making a poor decision, job done. Those in charge also need to look at why the driver made that decision. There may be factors about the design/layout/signage that will lead others to make the same decision - and we might not be so lucky next time.

That is a fair comment. Let u look at the root cause. Why did the driver ge this wrong, why do drivers get things wrong generally?

 

[Clip]

Whenever I pass that crossin on the train I'm surprised at it. Surprised that there is a crossing there at all, and more surprised that it's still there given the bend, the interference from trees and the hill.

And if you go onto the google map link that Naja B provided you can go down the road for some distance and still see the lights clearly as theyre position on both sides of the road giving a clear view for some distance. And with it being winter i Doubt theres much growth left on the trees to obscure anything.

 

[GB]

That is a fair comment. Let u look at the root cause. Why did the driver ge this wrong, why do drivers get things wrong generally?

Drivers do not get this type of thing wrong generally. Millions of motorists manage to traverse 100's of level crossings each week without incident.

Crossings of this type have road signs on approach, are populated with signs and barriers on the crossing and have floodlights so there is no excuse as far as I can see to not realise your on a crossings. If you can't see where your going to the extent you can't tell road from rail then you either stop and check or proceed cautiously.

 

[47271]

The only similar case I can think of without searching - at Malton in Yorkshire many years ago, and coming to me as a courts rather than railway anecdote - involved a drunk driver turning onto the track, mistaking it for a junction. Luckily no train was involved.

 

[matchmaker]

So blame and punish the driver, the one person who would almost certainly never make the same mistake again.

Meanwhile someone else who has never done it before does it at another crossing potentially with disastrous consequences. This is the second time we are discussing a similar incident in the last few weeks. We will be discussing another one soon enough.

The old-fashioned level crossing gates closed against the railway when open to the road. They presented a red disc to road trafic either way. Perhaps this is a better design which could prevent future incidents of this type.

Google "Balmuckety Level Crossing".

 

[Llanigraham]

That is a fair comment. Let u look at the root cause. Why did the driver ge this wrong, why do drivers get things wrong generally?

We will not know why this happened, possibly even after the RAIB report.

Why do drivers do anything wrong? Because they weren't concentrating, because they were distracted, because they are foolish, because they know no better, because they do!

And to be honest, this is not a common incident. More common is "poor" drivers ignoring the lights.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The only similar case I can think of without searching - at Malton in Yorkshire many years ago, and coming to me as a courts rather than railway anecdote - involved a drunk driver turning onto the track, mistaking it for a junction. Luckily no train was involved.

I can think of 3 cases in the last (approx) 5 years
A young lady who admitted obeying her sat nav and turning left immediately when told.
A old person who later admitted in Court being confused.
A stolen car trying to evade capture.

 

[Elecman]

Or the driver who ignored numerous toad closed signs and launched thier car over the level crossing outside Bedford when all the Bowmacs had been removed thus grounding thief car in the 6 ft

 

[Master29]

Looking at the picture posted by QueensCurve at least they had the sense to get out the car, there are many people who would freeze and panic in that situation.

That seems to be the only sense they did use.

 

[LeylandLen]

I assume the car driver was breathalysed. Its standard practice here in England when there is a RTA (Road Traffic Accident ) Was anyone arrested or detained by Police? Perhaps more facts will appear on Monday.

 

[Bushy]

I assume the car driver was breathalysed. Its standard practice here in England when there is a RTA (Road Traffic Accident )

As I understand, police in the UK now use the term Road Traffic Collision (RTC) rather than RTA, on the assumption that, as in this case, nearly all such incidents involve some level of responsibility.

 

[QueensCurve]

Drivers do not get this type of thing wrong generally. Millions of motorists manage to traverse 100's of level crossings each week without incident.

Most drivers don't get it wrong. There are a handful of occasions where they do. How can we understand the human factors and prevent the occasional disasters?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I understand, police in the UK now use the term Road Traffic Collision (RTC) rather than RTA, on the assumption that, as in this case, nearly all such incidents involve some level of responsibility.

And if the driver was intoxicated, he is more culpable for the event.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Google "Balmuckety Level Crossing".

In the Balmuckety Level Crossing collision, the road vehicle burst through the gate. It remains that gates across the railway would provide an additional visual clue to the driver not to go that way.

 

[Llanigraham]

And if the driver was intoxicated, he is more culpable for the event.

Until a breathe test is failed the Police still call it an RTC

In the Balmuckety Level Crossing collision, the road vehicle burst through the gate. It remains that gates across the railway would provide an additional visual clue to the driver not to go that way.

No it doesn't!
Millions of drivers cope with barriered crossings every day without driving onto the lines. As you have been shown that occurrence is very rare. Your proposal would mean going back 40 years and is frankly preposterous.

 

[najaB]

No it doesn't!

While I agree that it would be a backward change, there's no denying that the old style gates provided a very strong visual hint to drivers.

 

[ScotTrains]

While I agree that it would be a backward change, there's no denying that the old style gates provided a very strong visual hint to drivers.

Both car and train drivers! Anyone remember when an HST once smashed into this type of gate in Broughty Ferry a number of years ago.

 

[DarloRich]

This crossing is a well lit full barrier installation and there can be no excuse for apalling driving - but please - can we stop all this handwringing - its just a fender bender and no-one is hurt - no-one needs counselling, it's just one of those things!

The train driver might. I can imagine that coming upon a car in the middle of track at night might not be the most pleasant discovery.

There but for the grace...

I have have never done anything like that, and don't believe I ever would.

There remains some human factor why they did. Rather than blame and punish, we should seek to understand and prevent.

I don't want to put words into QueensCurve's mouth, but I took from his post that it isn't enough to simply blame the driver for making a poor decision, job done. Those in charge also need to look at why the driver made that decision. There may be factors about the design/layout/signage that will lead others to make the same decision - and we might not be so lucky next time.

Exactly - but there is no place for such logic here - it is about using the lessons learnt here to prevent a similar occurrence happening again.

They're an idiot. Take away their licence. Understood and prevented.

Clearly, knowing the reasoning behind the accident immediately, you can make such judgement having already ruled out mechanical or medical causes that could have led to the crash.

I assume the car driver was breathalysed. Its standard practice here in England when there is a RTA (Road Traffic Accident ) Was anyone arrested or detained by Police? Perhaps more facts will appear on Monday.

I assume there would have been an alcohol test - Remember the allowable level of alcohol in the the system is less than in England.

 

[al78]

Clearly, knowing the reasoning behind the accident immediately, you can make such judgement having already ruled out mechanical or medical causes that could have led to the crash.

I am struggling to think of what kind of mechanical failure in a car would cause it to turn 90 degrees right at a level crossing and the driver is incapable of preventing this.

If it was a medical issue, then I would question if they are medically fit to drive and would recommend suspension of license until a through medical investigation and the all clear is given by a competant medic. Driving a motor vehicle is a hazardous proceedure with the danger often externalised onto others, it needs to be taken seriously, and recognised for the hazardous activity that it is, not trivialised or coming out with any excuse to absolve the driver of responsibility in the case of an incident, which happens far too often.

 

[Boodiggy]

Or the driver who ignored numerous toad closed signs and launched thier car over the level crossing outside Bedford when all the Bowmacs had been removed thus grounding thief car in the 6 ft

Wootton Broadmead Crossing, Bedford End of Forders. Luckily no staff on track at the time.

 

[HowardGWR]

I assume the car driver was breathalysed. Its standard practice here in England when there is a RTA (Road Traffic Accident ) Was anyone arrested or detained by Police? Perhaps more facts will appear on Monday.

Just picking up on that, IIM. RTC Road Traffic Collision is now used. 'There is no such thing as an accident' is now the watchword.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Or the driver who ignored numerous toad closed signs and launched thier car over the level crossing outside Bedford when all the Bowmacs had been removed thus grounding thief car in the 6 ft

My bold. Now why did I start thinking about Wind in the Willows?