Car on the tracks

[JohnB57]

Incidentally dangerous driving carries a max of 2 years sentence and a disqualification minimum of 12 months.

It'll be interesting to see what punishment is doled out here, but it will fall well short of dangerous driving. Careless driving and 3 points with a smallish fine I'd bet. And a recommendation that the tram only section is better signed and protected.

 

[Donny Dave]

I'm somewhat in agreement with BestWestern here, in that the drivers license should be revoked for a period of time. However ....

Not revoked indefinately, but for 3 months. After that, it's back to a provisional, and can only regain a full license after taking an extended test.

For most people, 3 points and a small fine is a mere tap on the wrists, so they take very little, if any notice of it. What will grab their attention though is the loss of their license.

 

[MK Tom]

How did she get that far down the line? Or did she cross an entire rail before noticing something wasn't right? Crow's comments make no sense; there's no fault here in the design of the road or the tramway. The fault is people in this country relying on technology and not planning their journeys before going out. Also any driver that pays attention to road markings, lane positioning and signs (as all legally should) would never make this mistake.

 

[bailey65]

Crows comments never make any sense this moaning bonehead hasn't got an ounce of sense.

 

[lewisf]

http://goo.gl/maps/YpuHR

This is where she would have joined the segregated section of tram track. It looks quite easy to do as the track is paved and straight on from the road she must have been driving on.

I'm not normally sympathetic to people who turn onto railway lines at level crossings but I can see how this happened.

 

[Donny Dave]

Similar to the street sections of the Sheffield tram network, yet there's no problems there!

 

[aylesbury]

Early this year a motorist turned right onto the track at Brockenhurst,over wooden gaurds and narrowly missing the third rail .They managed to drive for a hundred yards towards the station before stopping,nothing changes does it.

 

[tsr]

I'm not normally sympathetic to people who turn onto railway lines at level crossings but I can see how this happened.

I can see how it could happen if a driver was paying insufficient attention, or did not know the area and the way tram systems work (the satnav usage may be down to the fact that the driver was not local), certainly. That must be one of the worst-designed junctions on Tramlink, and, to be honest, it has been an accident waiting to happen. Whenever I pass it, there is always at least one confused motorist trying to go where they shouldn't...

 

[GodAtum]

I can see how it could happen if a driver was paying insufficient attention, or did not know the area and the way tram systems work (the satnav usage may be down to the fact that the driver was not local), certainly. That must be one of the worst-designed junctions on Tramlink, and, to be honest, it has been an accident waiting to happen. Whenever I pass it, there is always at least one confused motorist trying to go where they shouldn't...

I agree completely. Its very badly designed. This isnt the only incident this year, I'm sure there have been a few. Maybe a look at the railway investigation board website might say.

August 12, 2011 – 6.06pm – East Croydon – pedestrian steps in front of tram and grazes right elbow

August 27, 2011 – 1.58pm – London Road/Station Road – man walks into side of tram, he declines medical assistance

September 2, 2011 – 9pm – Coombe Road – tram collides with car which failed to stop at ‘give way’ sign, causing minor damage to the tram and front bumper of car

September 11, 2011 – 5.37pm – Chepstow Road – car jumps red light, causing minor damage to front of tram

September 12, 2011 – 2.01pm – Church Street – cyclist had been riding wrong way through tram stop, scratches the tram

September 21, 2011 – 2.46pm – Church Street – Tram’s mirror clips mirror of parked lorry

October 24, 2011 – 4.03pm – Park Hill Road/Addiscombe Road – car pulls out from side road and stops with its front just across the path of the tram

October 31, 2011 – 5.04am – Addiscombe Road – tram collides with bus, minor damage to both vehicles

November 2, 2011 – 5.45pm – Wellesley Road/Lansdowne Road – car suffers “serious structural damage” after jumping red light and hitting a tram

November 9, 2011 – 3.45pm – Therapia Lane – tram hits schoolboy standing close to edge of platform. He receives a small graze on his little finger

December 24, 2011 – 6.35am – George Street – tram collides with illegally parked van, two marker lights are broken

December 27, 2011 – 6.33pm – George Street/Wellesley Road – pedestrian walks off paved area to crosses in front of tram and uses side of tram to “push himself off” as it comes to a halt. He was uninjured and declined medical assistance

January 4, 2012 – 4.40pm – George Street – driver reports collision with pedestrian, who continues his journey apparently uninjured

February 15, 2012 – 12.19am – Chepstow Road/Addiscombe Road – car collides with tram

March 8, 2012 – 7.45am – George Street – tram mirror pushed back by badly parked lorry

March 19, 2012 – 7.37am – George Street – tram strikes open cab door of illegally parked lorry

May 16, 2012 – 9.44am – Sandilands – woman trapped underneath tram and suffers serious multiple injuries

June 28, 2012 – 4.13pm – Waddon Marsh – pedestrian struck by side of cab, he confirms he is uninjured

July 11, 2012 – 1.20pm – Church Street – lorry strikes tram as it pulls away to turn left into Old Palace Road

July 24, 2012 – 5.40pm – George Street – car hits tram after it “failed to wait for tram to pass and encroached into swept path”

August 14, 2012 – 11.04am – Fieldway – tram collides with man who suffers chest and pelvic injuries and is taken from scene by air ambulance
http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk...sing-figures/story-17072558-detail/story.html

 

[90019]

August 27, 2011 – 1.58pm – London Road/Station Road – man walks into side of tram, he declines medical assistance

 

[Trainfan344]

We used to have a fair few end up on the norwich to lowestoft line by turning off up the railway line at oulton broad north instead of the road next to it! so it's now a one way street towards the railway crossing

 

[Waddon]

I live within sight of the tram flyover over the West Croydon to Sutton NR line. There must have been about half a dozen cars stuck on the track there, having driven off the road, past a no entry sign, under the bridge and along a paved section of track before getting stuck onto the ballast. They make a very distinctive sound as they grind along the rails...

it always amazes me that many of the motorists, once stuck, try to keep forcing their cars ever onwards along the track, one car managed to get a good way up the incline before giving up. Mind you, the noise they make getting stuck is nothing compared to the noise of scraping metal as the tow truck drags them free. It's the sound of car mechanics rubbing their hands together in anticipation of a large repair bill

I've often wondered what more could be done to prevent cars misinterpreting the junction and getting on the track, but to be honest, short of some sort of gate, how do you keep the track clear for trams and prevent motorists who can't read the signs going the wrong way? I've seen plastic barriers abroad which trams push out the way as they go through, and swing back into place after passing, but I doubt that would be approved in the UK

 

[Eagle]

I've often wondered what more could be done to prevent cars misinterpreting the junction and getting on the track...

Rising bollards spring to mind

 

[BestWestern]

You need to wrap yourself in cotton wool and stay in bed then.

I'm not suggesting that this driver should not face the correct punishment, just that it needs to be in proportion, be followed up with training - as many other driving offences are these days - and result in improvement. You're seriously suggesting more onerous punishment for this person than drivers whose carelessness kills people? Or bus drivers who go against red lights on crossings? Or would you just permanently ban everyone who makes an error?

The fact is, she did little or no damage, was nowhere near a school playground and was a bit unlucky to miss signage in a sea of traffic and information. There but for the grace... etc. And if you think the skill level on today's roads is generally higher than this, you're deluded. There are thousands of accidents-waiting-to-happen out there and I've already seen quite a few today.

I can assure you that I'm only too aware of the p*ss-poor general standard of driving on our roads, having spent several years battling through it all in a bus most days. However, there is a difference between those drivers who make the odd silly error here and there - which quite frankly is most of us - and those who are simply too incompetent to ever be a properly safe driver. Driving is the same as any other skill - and it is a skill - there are those who can get their head around it and those who just weren't meant to do it. Most people are among the former, but there are a good few who just aren't very good at it, for a variety of reasons. Most people thankfully though are competent enough to observe the difference between the roads they should be using and the railway lines, rivers and other areas that the occasional moron with Sat Nav blindness decides to drive into.

I just don't share your reasoning here I'm afraid. The lack of damage caused has no bearing at all on the severity of the error the driver made. She wasn't 'unlucky' to miss a sign, she drove her car off the end of a roadway and kept going despite there being nothing but a bed of stones and two railway lines in front of her. Unless she is in some way visually impared - one would hope not - I can't really think of an excuse for doing that. No amount of 'training' can cure the basic problem of stupidity, sadly. If somebody equally unaware of what they were doing took a wrong turn at level crossing, straddled a mainline railway and caused a major train accident, would you still feel that it was just an unlucky mistake and they should be allowed to carry on with just a quick telling off?

Incidentally, the bus driver who attempted to jump the level crossing that you refer to should also be banned for life, his actions were utterly unacceptable. And I completely agree with various posters that Bob Crow has once again made a complete tit of himself :roll:

 

[deltic1989]

In defence of the sat-nav I have to say that as a professional driver, a sat-nav can be a valuable tool in an area you are unfamiliar with. Having said that like with any aid of this type they require a degree of common sense to be able to perform their function properly, something that this woman obviously seems to lack.

It is very easy for people to blame the technology but it's not the sat-nav that is to blame, it's the person that's using it. I disagree that sat-navs are as dangerous as mobile phones, that is simply not the case. It's the people that use them and ultimately rely on them totally that are the dangerous ones.
I have said that the sat-nav is a valuable tool to me and it is, but it is no substitute for the good old A to Z and mark 1 eyeball.

Any technology that is reasonably new seems to get stick for causing accidents. I remember reading about when cruise control was first introduced in cars, that there were many accidents because drivers thought that it was autopilot.
There is nothing wrong with the technology in this case (except maybe a programming error), its all down to the brainless idiot behind the wheel. A fine and a ban may sort her out, but there are still many more planks waiting in the wings.

 

[Waddon]

Rising bollards spring to mind

I very much doubt they would be approved on an active UK track... also when in use for buses, from what I've seen, everything has to come to a total stop before it's slowly lowered... not ideal on tramlink as that would mean trams having to be at a stand right in the middle of the road junctions

 

[aspierail]

Driving on a tram line is just plain stupid really the lady should have used her common sense and look at the road signs not just rely on the sat nav for me i classify this as a school girl error.

 

[tsr]

Driving on a tram line is just plain stupid really the lady should have used her common sense and look at the road signs not just rely on the sat nav for me i classify this as a school girl error.

If she had looked at the road signs (assuming she did not), I believe she probably would have done the right thing, but at this junction you can become disorientated and confused. I reiterate my belief that this is one of the worst junctions on the Tramlink network in terms of layout and signage.

 

[Eagle]

Here's a solution

Pavement driver ordered to wear 'idiot' sign in Cleveland

A judge in Ohio has come up with an unusual punishment for a dangerous driver. Shena Hardin will have to hold up a sign saying "only an idiot would drive on the sidewalk to avoid a school bus" after she did just that.

Witnesses say she used to routinely drive on the pavement to avoid waiting for the school bus as it stopped to pick up and drop off children in Cleveland. The incident was filmed by someone on the bus using a mobile phone.

Hardin will also lose her licence for 30 days and pay a $250 fine.

 

[Statto]

Sat-Navs are not dangerous, actually are a useful tool, however common sense should tell you where not to drive, & not to rely 100% on Sat-Navs.

 

[richw]

Sat-Navs are not dangerous, actually are a useful tool, however common sense should tell you where not to drive, & not to rely 100% on Sat-Navs.

They should be used as an aid only. My friend typed in somewhere where there was a place in northern Scotland and Cumbria with same name, and it was only after being in Scotland for 2 hours he realised he shouldnt be in Scotland.
I normally have sat nav set up but not navigating but make sure I have ideas of points of interest.
On a recent road trip to France I knew on my way back to le havre I needed to head towards bayeaux then caen then le havre by which point I hoped the ferry port would be sign posted. Fortunately I didn't have to use the Sat nav.

 

[ian959]

Whilst no doubt the motorist lacks a little in the common sense department, that is one incredibly badly designed junction. At the very least the tarmac paving between the two carriageways should be dug up so that there is just ballast there. Dropping 10-15 centimetres down into a ballasted hole should stop all but the most idoitic morons.

It reminds me of a level crossing I go past everyday on a dual carriageway road. They have paved the track area between the two carriageways, so people blythely ignore the no U-turn signs at each end of the median strip and U-turn on the railway tracks.

 

[fairysdad]

I agree completely. Its very badly designed. This isnt the only incident this year, I'm sure there have been a few. Maybe a look at the railway investigation board website might say.

August 12, 2011 – 6.06pm – East Croydon – pedestrian steps in front of tram and grazes right elbow

August 27, 2011 – 1.58pm – London Road/Station Road – man walks into side of tram, he declines medical assistance

September 2, 2011 – 9pm – Coombe Road – tram collides with car which failed to stop at ‘give way’ sign, causing minor damage to the tram and front bumper of car

September 11, 2011 – 5.37pm – Chepstow Road – car jumps red light, causing minor damage to front of tram

September 12, 2011 – 2.01pm – Church Street – cyclist had been riding wrong way through tram stop, scratches the tram

September 21, 2011 – 2.46pm – Church Street – Tram’s mirror clips mirror of parked lorry

October 24, 2011 – 4.03pm – Park Hill Road/Addiscombe Road – car pulls out from side road and stops with its front just across the path of the tram

October 31, 2011 – 5.04am – Addiscombe Road – tram collides with bus, minor damage to both vehicles

November 2, 2011 – 5.45pm – Wellesley Road/Lansdowne Road – car suffers “serious structural damage” after jumping red light and hitting a tram

November 9, 2011 – 3.45pm – Therapia Lane – tram hits schoolboy standing close to edge of platform. He receives a small graze on his little finger

December 24, 2011 – 6.35am – George Street – tram collides with illegally parked van, two marker lights are broken

December 27, 2011 – 6.33pm – George Street/Wellesley Road – pedestrian walks off paved area to crosses in front of tram and uses side of tram to “push himself off” as it comes to a halt. He was uninjured and declined medical assistance

January 4, 2012 – 4.40pm – George Street – driver reports collision with pedestrian, who continues his journey apparently uninjured

February 15, 2012 – 12.19am – Chepstow Road/Addiscombe Road – car collides with tram

March 8, 2012 – 7.45am – George Street – tram mirror pushed back by badly parked lorry

March 19, 2012 – 7.37am – George Street – tram strikes open cab door of illegally parked lorry

May 16, 2012 – 9.44am – Sandilands – woman trapped underneath tram and suffers serious multiple injuries

June 28, 2012 – 4.13pm – Waddon Marsh – pedestrian struck by side of cab, he confirms he is uninjured

July 11, 2012 – 1.20pm – Church Street – lorry strikes tram as it pulls away to turn left into Old Palace Road

July 24, 2012 – 5.40pm – George Street – car hits tram after it “failed to wait for tram to pass and encroached into swept path”

August 14, 2012 – 11.04am – Fieldway – tram collides with man who suffers chest and pelvic injuries and is taken from scene by air ambulance

Not sure of the point you're making, but it seems as if the majority of accidents with road vehicles are down to their drivers breaking laws (as I've highlighted above) rather than the design of the tram network/road junction.

 

[BestWestern]

...Dropping 10-15 centimetres down into a ballasted hole should stop all but the most idoitic morons.

Exactly. Sadly, the lady in this case appears to have continued onwards for some distance despite this.

 

[313103]

Once again i see quite a few of the usual suspects coming up with the anti Bob Crow and anti RMT disparaging comments. Well we havent been here for a while have we? cant you guys give it a rest? Any little thing that he says or does whether its true or not or taken out of context you guys love ramming it home for all its worth. Was you there when the press interviewed on this matter? NO would be the answer.

I dont go writing on forums about every little misquote or phrase about someone i dont like, yet you guys seem to revel in it, Bob Crow is this, Bob Crow is that.

He may have been shown the list as reported in a previous post and asked for his comments and then the press have used it for this one item to make it look stupid (i mean we are talking about the Daily Mail who loves the Trade Union movement and Bob Crow in particular. NOT).

 

[ex-railwayman]

I smiled when I read the posted comment under the DM article -

I dread to think what could have happened if she had struck any children playing on the line.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[tsr]

I smiled when I read the posted comment under the DM article -

I dread to think what could have happened if she had struck any children playing on the line.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

That wouldn't exactly be the definition of "the best of both worlds", would it?

 

[cjohnson]

Another car has managed to get itself beached on the tram track at Sandilands this evening...

 

[341o2]

To be fair, our roads are that s**t you wouldn't notice a difference between driving on tarmac and driving on ballast.

like it!!

driving skills - avoiding the potholes. black mark whenever suspension bottoms out

 

[Zoidberg]

Another car has managed to get itself beached on the tram track at Sandilands this evening...

Read all about it, read all about it http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/localnews/10177843.Tram_delays_after_car_gets_stuck_on_tracks/

Extract:

Tramlink services were delayed this evening due to a car being stuck on the tracks.

Services were suspended between East Croydon and Lloyds Park and Addiscombe, after a car became stuck on the tracks at Sandilands tram stop.

Leroy D'Anjou who was down at the scene said: "The car had a foreign registration plate, but the driver was very English.